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Brother's fiance said breastfeeding inappropriate

9K views 145 replies 69 participants last post by  User101 
#1 ·
This is the only place I know to vent and find support and suggestions. My brother is engaged to a woman that our family is not particularly fond of. I only say that because the story I'm about to explain is the icing on the cake for me. I have tried and tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but now she has attacked me.

My DH and I went over to my brother's house (she lives there) for dinner fr the first time. We arrived before the fiance got home from work. While there I nursed my LO in the living room. Nothing was said to me, apparently my brother deliberatly left the room then, but I didn't notice. Later when the fiance arrived home from work we had dinner and went back into the living room for conversation. I began to nurse baby again and the fiance politely offered me a blanket. I politely said no thank you, thinking she was just being nice. Well, she responded by saying "Yes, you do" with a facial expression that showed exactly what she meant. I said "No, I'm already covered" (because I was, my large t-shirt and sweater hid everything from view. My sweater was already hanging in my baby's face. So she continues to say that as long as we're in the same room then i need to cover her. So I said "what, you need her body covered?" And she insisted yes. I immediately decided to leave because I was not going to let some woman tell me how to feed my child and I was obviously angry.

The next day I emailed my brother to explain to him why I had to leave abruptly and why this was such an important matter to me. I wanted to share with him how I felt without getting angry. He then called me and proceeds to yell at me insisting that "breastfeeding is inappropriate" and they did nothing wrong. I was the one that was so rude for leaving.

I just got another email from his fiance insisting that covering up is "common courtesy" - still nothing even close to sympathy or an apology from her. She wants to "drop it"and move on because she's "said her peace".

I know it's hard to retell whole events like this but I don't feel like i can drop it so easily. As far as their concerned I should cover up everytime I'm in their house. I believe that this is a much bigger issue than their opinion that it's "inappropriate"....i just don't understand that word. As a Christian, I want to forgive, but they weren't even willing to listen to my feelings. Am I supposed to tiptoe around my family everytime we have a get together because she doesn't like it. I think our family should be the one group that we feel comfortable breastfeeding around.
 
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#102 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by homewithtwinsmama View Post
But they DID invite her. Did they then have the right to abuse and discomfort her and deny her child the opportunity to do what is best, most comfortable and right for her? I say no. And that they are calling the mother rude, just compounds the ignorance.
No, they didn't. Which is why it was wisest for her to leave. Because it would have been idiotic to choose to stay in a building with boorish people who showed no signs of having enough common sense to be worth reasoning with.
 
#103 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Ah, morality based on private property, and this one's 'rights' vs. that one's 'rights.' What a stereotypically American argument.



during my family situation, the "other side" kept coming back at me, saying that i should have just declined the invitation.

my response?

"if nursing my newborn was so offensive to you that you had to approach me in that way, then you shouldn't have invited me at all."

i kept saying it over and over, and it didn't sink in for over a year. they just didn't understand the concept. (plus, one member of the offending party is a major control freak, which i'm sensing a bit of in your fsil's case.)

but you know what? i finally got an apology from these people. they realized how incredibly rude and insensitive they were being, and how much they lost by maintaining their inflexible stance. i wouldn't say that they're supportive (egads, i'm nursing a toddler!), but they know 2 things.

1. that i am a lactivist and the breastfeeding relationship between my daughter and i is very important to me. important enough for me to sever ties with people.

and

2. the proof is in the pudding. dd is incredibly bright, engaging, funny, and most importantly, vigorously healthy, and she charms them to no end. we must be doing something right.
 
#104 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Ah, morality based on private property, and this one's 'rights' vs. that one's 'rights.' What a stereotypically American argument.

The idea that one should respect the desires of the person in home they are visiting doesn't necessarily have to be based on private property and "rights". In my mind it's based on practicality, common sense and courtesy.

If I'm in someone else's home and they're doing something I don't like, I can go home. If I'm in their home and I'm doing something they don't like, but I refuse to stop doing it and refuse to leave, where are they going to go???

If we lived in some kind of hunter-gatherer culture where there was very little individual property, they could just pick up their bedroll and go sleep in another part of the common area everyone shared. In that case my sitting on their bedroll and refusing to move would be more comparable.

In any case, I think it is extremely rude and inconsiderate of me to subject another person to an uncomfortable situation I'm forcing them to remain in just because I think I have the "right" to do whatever I want wherever I want to do it.

In any situation where I'm making someone uncomfortable, and it's far easier for me to change what I'm doing or go somewhere else than it would be for them to leave the situation, I would at least make an effort within reason to adjust my own actions to accommodate their comfort. It wouldn't matter who "owned" the place.

I don't think I'm the most important person on earth, and therefore in a situation where two people's desires or needs are coming into conflict, both people's needs and desires should be considered unless there is some kind of emergency or dire need on one side and not on the other.

This whole "I don't have to consider anyone else's comfort level even IN THEIR OWN HOME because breastfeeding is sacred and therefore I should be able to do it HOWEVER I want any time I want" stems from the basic idea that my right to not have to cover my baby or move to a different spot in the room or house while nursing is more important than their right not to be cornered in an uncomfortable (for them) situation they can't escape.

Again, nursing the baby is a need. Nursing the baby in direct view of someone who is uncomfortable when the mom could easily provide some sort of visual barrier or reposition herself is (at least in the majority of situations) a preference, not a need.

If it is not terribly difficult for her to do so, I think the mom should set aside her preference to accommodate the greater need of the person whose home she is in, since they have nowhere else to go and she does.
 
#106 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I can't believe 'don't nurse your baby in my home' is being defended on here.

neither do I... i am aghast and throughly disgusted.
 
#107 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I can't believe 'don't nurse your baby in my home' is being defended on here.

No kidding.

The only individual to whom a nursing mother owes any consideration with respect to comfort is her nursling. I don't know why you would invite a nursing mother and her babe over if you were going to make them eat elsewhere.

I can't even begin to tell you how many noisy eaters I've had as guests that I've wanted to banish to the bathroom because I found it gross. It may have been my "right"
to insist they cover up because of my home's Zero Tolerance approach to open-mouth chewing, but I happen to believe that mutual respect and graciousness trumps property rights when you invite individuals into your home.
 
#110 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo View Post
This whole "I don't have to consider anyone else's comfort level even IN THEIR OWN HOME because breastfeeding is sacred and therefore I should be able to do it HOWEVER I want any time I want" stems from the basic idea that my right to not have to cover my baby or move to a different spot in the room or house while nursing is more important than their right not to be cornered in an uncomfortable (for them) situation they can't escape.
I wasn't aware that nursing mothers regularly held guns to people's heads to force them to watch.

Quote:
If it is not terribly difficult for her to do so, I think the mom should set aside her preference to accommodate the greater need of the person whose home she is in, since they have nowhere else to go and she does.
Says who? I am failing to see why the person who feels uncomfortable can't just excuse him or herself.
 
#111 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Look back at your last post and you will find it.
Nope. I didn't say that at all. If you re-read both of my longer posts you will see that I said I think it is wrong for anyone to ever ask a mother not to nurse her child in their home. Nursing the child is a genuine need, and it is neither right nor reasonable for anyone to expect the child to go hungry because they are uncomfortable. Asking her not to nurse the baby would be wrong.

However, I also feel it would be wrong for a mother to refuse to make any attempt to be discreet with her nursing if she knew it was making others uncomfortable, if she can do so easily without compromising the baby's needs.

And, if she's not willing to make any attempt to reposition her body, use a visual barrier of some sort, or renegotiate in some way so the hosts will be more comfortable, I think she should leave and feel no obligation to ever spend time in that person's company again.

When I was asked not to nurse in someone's home I thought it was wrong of the hosts. But I would also think it would be wrong of me to insist on nursing in someone else's home after they asked me not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo
"If it is not terribly difficult for her to do so, I think the mom should set aside her preference to accommodate the greater need of the person whose home she is in, since they have nowhere else to go and she does. "

Quote:

Originally Posted by elspethshimon
Says who? I am failing to see why the person who feels uncomfortable can't just excuse him or herself.
If it's a situation where there is a party or multiple guests, it's not reasonable to expect the host to leave all the guests unattended with nobody to serve the food for 20-40 minutes while the momma nurses her baby.

But that wasn't the point. My point was that if the mother is offended by being asked to cover up or leave the room, she can go home. The person whose house she's in can't leave and go home--they ARE home.
 
#112 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo View Post
<snip>

In any case, I think it is extremely rude and inconsiderate of me to subject another person to an uncomfortable situation I'm forcing them to remain in just because I think I have the "right" to do whatever I want wherever I want to do it.

In any situation where I'm making someone uncomfortable, and it's far easier for me to change what I'm doing or go somewhere else than it would be for them to leave the situation, I would at least make an effort within reason to adjust my own actions to accommodate their comfort. It wouldn't matter who "owned" the place. <snip>
I have to disagree. It's ignorant and misogynistic of a host(ess) to insist that a mother not feed her child, or that she only feed her child in the back bedroom with the door shut (or draped with a blanket).

There are lots of things that might make a host(ess) uncomfortable, and it's their own problem. Not the guest's. Obviously there is proper decorum - from both sides - which ought to be adhered to. But I see nothing wrong or offensive about feeding a child. There IS nothing wrong or offensive about feeding a child.

I have a relative who would have been very offended if I had married someone of a different race. If that had happened, should I have had my dh hang out at Perkins while I visited her? Because he'd be offensive to her sensibilities, after all.
:

I'm offended by people who pick their noses. But I've had many guests who've picked their noses, sometimes in my presence. What do I do? I look away. And possibly offer a kleenex, if they want one. The host(ess) could always go into a different room while the mother nursed, if they were uncomfortable. It's not like it was a one-room shack. And even if it were, they could always face a different direction.

I think sometimes peoples' reactions to this scenario stems from their own experiences (as in, "Well, I liked that alone time with just baby and myself to reconnect while at the IL's"). I've had a marathon, 45 minutes every two hours nurser - if I had segregated myself to make others comfortable I would never have seen anyone who visited us, or whom we visited. And they would never have seen her. My second nursling, needs .absolute.quiet. to nurse and sleep anymore - which means that I've spent more time than I'd like, alone in a dark room with her nursing while dh and others visited amiably. It's frustrating to miss out on the adult conversations; it's frustrating to know that dh is having to manage our (currently very opinionated and exuberant) 4 year old by himself.

But it's what SJ requires, so it's what I do. I'd hate for anyone to assume I was doing it because it was the 'proper, polite' thing to do -- it's only proper because it's what SJ requires. And IMO it's impolite, and rude, to disappear like that, especially when we're the invited guests.

I think some of our most difficult lactivism happens in our friends and relatives' homes..... Negotiating the cultural minefields regarding our breasts and childrearing in a kind manner which gently educates those who are ill-informed. It is far more difficult to tell a future in-law that while we realize she's uncomfortable, breastfeeding (and in front of others) is part of how we do things; and these are the reasons why; and if she's not OK with that, she can excuse herself and we'll let her know when we're done, OR she can choose not to see us for the duration of our breastfeeding. But, it's what needs to be done.

And if we don't communicate clearly (and yes, kindly but firmly) about breastfeeding, and instead accede to whatever limitations the host(ess) 'requires,' then we are RATIFYING their ignorant and misogynistic beliefs (in the OP's situation, apparently that bf is a sexual act between mother and child, in which the child should be covered in a shroud). Therefore, they can use US as an example of how "good breastfeeders" should behave. As in, "Oh, my SIL is a freak who bfs her 1 year old, but she always leaves the room to nurse her at least!"

My sister goes into the other room at her IL's house. BF makes her dh uncomfortable. We're a bf family so she's bf'd, but she weans promptly at 12 months (Happy Birthday!
). Her IL's attitudes have certainly formed her feelings about bf and how long she'd be willing to bf. It's not a pleasant, supported experience for her. Research shows that women like her often wean far sooner than 12 months (that is, women whose support system doesn't support bf, especially bfip).
 
#113 ·
I don't understand this attitude of "we disagree and so it's over!"

As a lactivist, one of the best things the OP can do is deal lovingly with the FSIL, so as not to turn her off to breastfeeding even more than she already has been (due to society or whatever is causing her weirdness). I think the OP is in a great position to gently and politely educate the FSIL about breastfeeding. Some people need time to process things, and cutting her off or being rude sure won't help the situation.
 
#114 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
I would add a nice jab at his obvious good choice in Mommy Material for his future progeny. That instead of giving his future children the BEST, she'll be giving them the least because she's a stuck up prude.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Marita View Post
Which is one reason I suggested having them to YOUR house, where YOUR rules apply (like the one about FSIL being covered by a blanket in order to eat).

Only halfway joking. I'm still in an evil mood.
I think this thing would be hysterical:

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden...cid=99035&fp=F

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meg Murry. View Post
And yet, if you were a vegetarian and someone were coming over for dinner, I am fairly sure you would serve them vegetables. Similarly, if you were an orthodox Jew and someone were coming over for dinner, I'm fairly sure you would serve a kosher meal. Because, you know, it's your house and you get to set the rules.
Minor threadjack, but thank you for saying that. I got lambasted on another board for saying I would be pissed if I were invited to thanksgiving dinner and someone used that day as an opportunity to force vegetarianism on me without warning me in advance. I see that as being exactly the same as offering a Jew pork or forcing meat on a vegetarian, but they didn't see it that way and acted like I was out of line.
I think it's pretty low to lure someone into your home so you can try to convert them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mack View Post
It's too bad that both brother and FSIL refuse to accept your mothering choices, and your attempts at reconciliation. Surely the rest of your family will support you, even though they may still have to invite your brother to family gatherings. FSIL seems awfully old-fashioned for an unmarried woman living with a man...=)
: So true. I think the best advice is to just avoid them until you no longer have a nursing child, and yes, definitely it's their loss if you have several and just avoid them for the next 10 years or so.
 
#115 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo View Post

If it is not terribly difficult for her to do so, I think the mom should set aside her preference to accommodate the greater need of the person whose home she is in, since they have nowhere else to go and she does.
In my earlier post, I neglected to point out that in many of these situations, the ones with "no place to go" are the guests, since they may have traveled a considerable distance to arrive at the event.

If my family were anti-bf, and decided to forbid breastfeeding (except in the downstairs bedroom or whatever) at their home while we were visiting - it's a six hour drive home (add in stops for kids and it's more like a 10 hour drive). And, it's about an hour from the nearest hotel. So if they pulled this on us, it'd be a situation where dh would be packing all our stuff and dd1 crying about not being around her cousins after all, while I sat in the vehicle nursing dd2. And then a long drive to *somewhere* afterwards.

Which is probably why when this gets pulled, a lot of nursing moms put up with it. But isn't it obvious that putting up with it ratifies it?? Even if Mom says, "Hey, this is ridiculous," she's showing her family (and her kids) that in fact, it's the way things should be after all.

I much prefer the approach of -
A. Attempted education re: bf and 'propriety' plus why we bf
B. Loving departure if family won't budge ("I'm sorry but we can't stay if I can't nurse here. We'll see you later -- will call when we get to the hotel and maybe all the cousins can come over to play in the pool?")
 
#119 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by elanorh View Post

I much prefer the approach of -
A. Attempted education re: bf and 'propriety' plus why we bf
B. Loving departure if family won't budge ("I'm sorry but we can't stay if I can't nurse here. We'll see you later -- will call when we get to the hotel and maybe all the cousins can come over to play in the pool?")
This sounds like a great approach, and is pretty much what I was saying I would do if someone asked me to not breastfeed or to make what I felt was an unreasonable accommodation.
 
#120 ·
I am still at MDC, right??


Just checking...


No one seems to have mentioned yet that many states use the wording "anywhere that the mother has the right to be" is somewhere she may nurse her baby.

So that in essence, she does have the right to nurse her LO in someone else's home, unless they are revoking her right to be there (kicking her out).

Meat eating and smoking are not protected by the same legal wording.
 
#122 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by ruhbehka View Post
I am still at MDC, right??


Just checking...


No one seems to have mentioned yet that many states use the wording "anywhere that the mother has the right to be" is somewhere she may nurse her baby.

So that in essence, she does have the right to nurse her LO in someone else's home, unless they are revoking her right to be there (kicking her out).

Meat eating and smoking are not protected by the same legal wording.
There are plenty of things one can do legally--such as suing relatives when they haven't paid back loans on time--that aren't worth the hassle.

Also, the brother and his fiancee weren't good enough people to be educated. If they were halfway sensible, trying to educate would've been frustrating but worth it. As it was there would have been a huge stressful confrontation and they would've been just as ignorant afterwards, I think avoiding exposing your baby to that situation made sense.

Now, a place like a restaurant, that's a different story. There the fight is worth it because the fight's also for all the other mamas who might go to that restaurant with their babies.

ETA: mind you, I do love the idea of a nurse-in at their house, but it'd be hard to get them to invite a bunch of nursing moms over.
 
#123 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
There are plenty of things one can do legally--such as suing relatives when they haven't paid back loans on time--that aren't worth the hassle.

Also, the brother and his fiancee weren't good enough people to be educated. If they were halfway sensible, trying to educate would've been frustrating but worth it. As it was there would have been a huge stressful confrontation and they would've been just as ignorant afterwards, I think avoiding exposing your baby to that situation made sense.

Now, a place like a restaurant, that's a different story. There the fight is worth it because the fight's also for all the other mamas who might go to that restaurant with their babies.

ETA: mind you, I do love the idea of a nurse-in at their house, but it'd be hard to get them to invite a bunch of nursing moms over.
I'm not saying that I would have fought to nurse there; just that I disagree with Meg Murray and other posters who have argued that she didn't have a right to nurse her baby in someone else's home.
 
#126 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kangaroo View Post
The idea that one should respect the desires of the person in home they are visiting doesn't necessarily have to be based on private property and "rights". In my mind it's based on practicality, common sense and courtesy.

If I'm in someone else's home and they're doing something I don't like, I can go home. If I'm in their home and I'm doing something they don't like, but I refuse to stop doing it and refuse to leave, where are they going to go???

If we lived in some kind of hunter-gatherer culture where there was very little individual property, they could just pick up their bedroll and go sleep in another part of the common area everyone shared. In that case my sitting on their bedroll and refusing to move would be more comparable.

In any case, I think it is extremely rude and inconsiderate of me to subject another person to an uncomfortable situation I'm forcing them to remain in just because I think I have the "right" to do whatever I want wherever I want to do it.

In any situation where I'm making someone uncomfortable, and it's far easier for me to change what I'm doing or go somewhere else than it would be for them to leave the situation, I would at least make an effort within reason to adjust my own actions to accommodate their comfort. It wouldn't matter who "owned" the place.

I don't think I'm the most important person on earth, and therefore in a situation where two people's desires or needs are coming into conflict, both people's needs and desires should be considered unless there is some kind of emergency or dire need on one side and not on the other.

This whole "I don't have to consider anyone else's comfort level even IN THEIR OWN HOME because breastfeeding is sacred and therefore I should be able to do it HOWEVER I want any time I want" stems from the basic idea that my right to not have to cover my baby or move to a different spot in the room or house while nursing is more important than their right not to be cornered in an uncomfortable (for them) situation they can't escape.

Again, nursing the baby is a need. Nursing the baby in direct view of someone who is uncomfortable when the mom could easily provide some sort of visual barrier or reposition herself is (at least in the majority of situations) a preference, not a need.

If it is not terribly difficult for her to do so, I think the mom should set aside her preference to accommodate the greater need of the person whose home she is in, since they have nowhere else to go and she does.

Well said! I agree 100%.
 
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