These long emergency peak oil threads are scaring the pants off me. I'm seriously worried how we're going to afford gas for dh's commute next year. Talk me down! Tell me the world isn't going to end. Right now I'm terrified about extended summer blackouts and we can't get water up from the well. Or when do we spend more in commute gas than dh takes home. Or we buy a wood stove and so does everyone else and firewood goes from free to way expensive.
The Europeans (Western Europeans, at least) have to pay for those social programs - aren't they taxed through the nose? For some reason, I think I've heard that multiple places over the years.
Originally Posted by A&A
Also, Velochic, what do you see the stock market doing? Are we in for a major crash?
I neither speculate nor try to predict. We are invested across the board both domestically and internationally. Just trying to keep everything as diversified as I can and hope not every single sector fails. If it does, I doubt that my investments will be my biggest worry... probably just keeping my family alive will be the goal du jour.
Originally Posted by Tradd
The Europeans (Western Europeans, at least) have to pay for those social programs - aren't they taxed through the nose? For some reason, I think I've heard that multiple places over the years.
They pay. Whether it's more than Americans is questionable. Most European (actually *most* in general) countries take out an upfront tax. Then that's it. In the US, we pay income, sales, property, excise... blah, blah, blah. We get nickel and dimed and in the end, most data shows that we actually pay more in the end. I was just reading a comparison of health care systems. In the US, we actually pay more for health care even though it is not socialized, and the quality is 37th in the world... far behind the socialized countries. If I have time I'll try to find it.
Originally Posted by velochic
They pay. Whether it's more than Americans is questionable. Most European (actually *most* in general) countries take out an upfront tax. Then that's it. In the US, we pay income, sales, property, excise... blah, blah, blah. We get nickel and dimed and in the end, most data shows that we actually pay more in the end. I was just reading a comparison of health care systems. In the US, we actually pay more for health care even though it is not socialized, and the quality is 37th in the world... far behind the socialized countries. If I have time I'll try to find it.
I would be interested in seeing that info if you can find it.
well i think its sort of fun to speak about how horrible things are going to be in a horror film sort of way but i just dont buy it
I know i am one of those dumb in denial people you all talk about.
Europe is always way ahead of the states. For example in a few countries there are now battery stations instead of gas stations in places where you drive an electric car and every so often (75 miles i think so theres improvement to be done) you go and exchange your dead battery for a charged one. Its abouta s quick as getting gas. Will this solve all our problems no but some. I also have a neighbor that works with alternative power sources and says that they mostly supply European countries because in the US the politics gets in the way. There is still a lot of money to be made in oil such as the raising gas prices....
I also think we are mislead in many ways and lied to by the government and the media.
I think we will be ok. Will it be a change, sure but it may just be a positive exciting one and at some point things will start to look up. When there is a need and there is money to be made there are brains and motivated people who will come up with solutions and take advantage of the situation to make money!
Yes, I am getting nervous as well. I am trying to learn how to be more self sufficient in terms of food such as growing a garden, learning how to can stuff, learning how to make do without ready made everything. I'm especially worried about the price of gas. Dh and I both have jobs outside our community plus he goes to school in the city about 60 miles away. My job will require me to do a lot of driving to do home visits in a largely rural area. It is a great job for me but I fear I'll have to quit it if gas continues it's sharp march upwards. We already drive our Saturn almost everywhere, especially if we go out of town. The van largely sits in the driveway unless I need to go somewhere when dh is gone. We are experiencing the first of a very painful (as a society) transition into a new lifestyle and way of thinking about our global resources.
Originally Posted by madskye
I think the other thing to realize is that you won't be the only one changing. Talking with a neighbor about this stuff, and riding my bike to the supermarket in the future and his take was that in the future, groceries are going to be much closer to our homes. That the upscale florist in our neighborhood who sells rosebushes and flower arrangements will start selling veggies and probably milk and eggs. There will probably be govt incentives for employers to make some kind of commuting allowances to spare people commuting costs/weight on the transportation infrastructure.
Honestly, I'm kind of looking forward to that part. I live in a super walkable neighborhood but the one thing we don't have is a grocery store. I'd love to see government incentives to get one in here.
Also, I'd love to see the same sort of incentives to companies to allow more flexible work arrangements. I would LOVE to telecommute on days that I don't have meetings. There's no good reason that I can't, except that it "isn't company policy", which in the coming economy shouldn't be good enough to spend $10 on gas. And I think I'd like my job a whole lot more if I was doing it from home in my PJs.
i am scared too. i am trying to find out what we can do but its nearly impossible from what i see....sure i could make my own detergetns and grow food (although space is an issue and i have a black thumb AND start up costs) but we live outside of the (crappy) bus system (1+ mile), it doens't go to dh's work (3 miles) and apparently its pretty crappy (first city i've ever lived in with a bus system). dh is unwilling to drive a vespa, a motorcycle isn't cost effective for the short term (2 years) and what i DO drive is pretty small...so even cutting out half my driving is only saving $50 or less. i'm thinking weird thoughts....can i hook a bike trailer to a vespa? do i REALLY want to bike all over (not really it would kill me), should i take the bus (ha!) what can i DO to stay afloat?
really we are ok...we're still trying to pay off all our debt but with a .25 increase in gas in the last month i don't see it slowing down AND "we" are going to pay for the ignorance of politians. i just think its going to break those of us who are smart and trying to get ahead but still STUCK. thats all i feel right now..stuck, stuck stuck. theres no outs for us and for the next 1-2 years we are going to bear the brundt of all the changes without reaping any benefits.
Originally Posted by dhinderliter
i'm thinking weird thoughts....can i hook a bike trailer to a vespa? do i REALLY want to bike all over (not really it would kill me), should i take the bus (ha!) what can i DO to stay afloat?
Instead of a vespa (which I'm not really sure what it is, but assume it's a small, bikelike thing, don't laugh at my ignorance) , some people have posted about kits you add to a regular bike that make it run on gas, but get super great gas mileage. You can peddle, or if it gets too long or you get tired, switch to the motor. Then you could pull your bike trailer too. Just a thought
Some companies are already taking iniative. DH's managing partner (of his local branch of a huge corporation) just made it company policy for everyone to work from home one day a week, to save on commuting costs and help the environment. I was so pleased. Maybe other companies will follow suit, and telecommuting will become the default for many jobs.
Originally Posted by velochic
No, the differences are much more profound country to country in Europe than they are in the US. MUCH! How about these figures (using today's conversion rate):
Germany: $45,000
Spain: $18,000
Poland: $1,200 (no, that's not a typo)
Turkey: $8,000
So, you can see that the the averages are HUGELY different from country to country, unlike in the US where a place like California might have 1.5 - 2 times the cost of living/income average of a place like Illinois. Nowhere in the US do you see the average income 30 times greater than another state. You can't compare "states" in the US to "countries" in Europe, obviously.
Thanks for the answers. Any chance there are #s on the cost of living for these places as well? or a site for the states w/ updated #s on cost of living?
Originally Posted by zersha
Instead of a vespa (which I'm not really sure what it is, but assume it's a small, bikelike thing, don't laugh at my ignorance) , some people have posted about kits you add to a regular bike that make it run on gas, but get super great gas mileage. You can peddle, or if it gets too long or you get tired, switch to the motor. Then you could pull your bike trailer too. Just a thought
its a brand of scooter. i was on the website just seeing if i could get a rudamentry price and dh said no fing way!
although it SEEMS like a good idea for me to do a bike or scooter or something i would be scared sh1tless. i mean its a TINY little bike/scooter with my 2 precious children. and i am horrible with bikes...haven't ridden (nor do i own) a bike since i was a young teen or less. plus it gets HOT here...usually up to 100 every day for summer months (weird summer so far...). i would be afraid that even though a motor would keep us with a little breeze it wouldn't be enough to stay cool and we'd all get heat stroke. i know excuses excuses is why america still wnats its cars but a few days ago i walking across the street (havne't doen any walking for a long time) and a car almost hit us! i mean its the first time in FOREVER and already i was almost hit? jeeze!
Originally Posted by dhinderliter
its a brand of scooter. i was on the website just seeing if i could get a rudamentry price and dh said no fing way!
although it SEEMS like a good idea for me to do a bike or scooter or something i would be scared sh1tless. i mean its a TINY little bike/scooter with my 2 precious children. and i am horrible with bikes...haven't ridden (nor do i own) a bike since i was a young teen or less. plus it gets HOT here...usually up to 100 every day for summer months (weird summer so far...). i would be afraid that even though a motor would keep us with a little breeze it wouldn't be enough to stay cool and we'd all get heat stroke. i know excuses excuses is why america still wnats its cars but a few days ago i walking across the street (havne't doen any walking for a long time) and a car almost hit us! i mean its the first time in FOREVER and already i was almost hit? jeeze!
I totally understand your fear of bad drivers. I rode about 2 miles to the grocery store with my 2 yo in a trailer last week, and I was really worried when crossing the street. One car seemed really bothered about the time it took us to get across, and started going a millesecond after we cleared them. It really ticked me off.
Communities really need to start doing some planning to make things more bike/pedestrian safe. I guess one good thing about peak oil would be that there would be fewer cars out there to worry about when riding/walking.
As far as the heat, I hear you there too. We actually have extreme weather at both ends (super cold, super hot), but I thought maybe I could try to bike early in the morning before it gets too hot.
We walked every place last summer and most days it was 90 plus DS rode in his stroller, we always carried water bottles and we got one of these it was a life saver http://www.shadeusa.com/misters.htm
Originally Posted by spring978
We walked every place last summer and most days it was 90 plus DS rode in his stroller, we always carried water bottles and we got one of these it was a life saver http://www.shadeusa.com/misters.htm
HI I read where someone asked about the income in Europe,etc. I saw an answer from someone else, but here is just my experience. We lived in the southwest of england. Quite expensive, more so than other parts of England as well. DH made the same as he does here in USA. We paid 9 bucks a gallon for gas, we only had one car. I didnt drive, I walked everywhere or took a bus, once a month to the town far away. Dh drove to and from work 5 miles each way 6 days a week, plus we did car booting on Sundays far off, so we drove a bit. Food was more expensive, actually everything was, and our rent was $900 a month for a 2 bedroom tiny flat compared to our $600 month mortage. Electricity was about the same as here, council taxed were OUTRAGOUS(we paid $2000 a year for our tiny flat) and everything else was wayyyyy up there on the scale. House prices are extremely expensive(compared to where we live here anyway) sooooooooo we fare better living here really. Ok, yes there is free healthcare, but its not really free people!! You pay NHS taxes for this healthcare~!! Plus, you pay tax on everything, you just dont see it!! It evens out. Finacially, we are better off here than we ever were in England. But that is just our experience. PLus we do not buy a lot of stuff, and we do not waste stuff, that is the European way. We have adopted those values, and continue them over here, in the good ol USA.
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