Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman
Well, it varies widely depending on the various circles in which you travel....but you are asking about North America as a whole. I think society values high achievers more than it value intellectuals. Intellectuals who are also high achievers are valued. So, society values "intellectual," inventive achievers such as Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, etc., but also values the physical achievements of professional athletes, the financial achievements of the rich, the self-evident beauty of the beautiful, etc. Many children will want to achieve the type of success that is valued by society as a whole.
|
:
We do tend to value intellectualism when combined with achievement. But what sparked or created the achievement?
It's that magical mix of intellect, ambition, and luck (IMO). Intellect is part and parcel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6
I can't tell you how many conversations I've stopped just by telling people that I'm a professor. You don't get the same reaction if you're an engineer or a construction worker or a doctor, but you do if your occupation is clearly intellectual.
|
This really surprises me. Everywhere I've ever lived (and that's been a few states) people have always been impressed by and respected college professors.
I think universally people respect (ok they may disagree with them) doctors, lawyers, professors, scientists, college professors, etc. I don't think it's just the money. I think it's the brains, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS
Definitely. And in the African-American community (which I'm part of) it's chronic.
|
:
This is a major problem, I think. This has been brought a number of times on the national level during this election season and also by leaders in the African American community.
It is sad.
But I have to wonder if it's more about the socioeconomics than about race. I say that because I am white. I grew up poor in rural America. Many of the people I knew growing up were not educated (and still aren't) and they are anti-intellectual. I think the root is lack of self confidence and self-esteem...feeling like you don't measure up.
With hard socioeconomic conditions, it can become an epidemic in sub-sets of cultures. I have seen the very same thing in poor, white America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftField
Yes, I do. Traditional U.S. culture promotes the idea that people can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and achieve anything with hard work.
|
Well, that is true. I am a person who pulled themselves up by the bootstraps through hard work, but the bootstraps consisted of public education and access through loans to college. The hard work was homework and dedication to my studies.
But you are right, there has to be a certain level of intellect involved (and that often plays into good decision making). Luck is also involved. It's not just one thing. But in America it's at least possible. In some countries, it's not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by library lady
Who gets picked on in school the most? It certainly isn't the jocks. It is the geeks (aka intellectuals).
|
Is it? I know that's the stereotype?
In my experience, the poor kids and kids from messed up families got picked on the most.
The smart kids weren't inherently the popular kids because of their smarts, but they were left alone and not made fun of for being smart.
I was very poor, and people made fun of me a lot, until I started to really shine academically. Then I was respected a little more by all kids, actually. The popular kids who also happened to be smart respected me, and that had a trickle down impact.
If I'd just been poor, and not smart, I would have been made fun of horrendously, as some poor souls were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman
"People look up to Bill Gates and value his intelligence because he has MONEY. His intelligence has nothing to do with it. People look up to his money."
I, for one, value his inventiveness and intelligence
|
Yeah, me, too. And, secondly, for what he does as a philantropist.
There are a lot of a-holes with money who don't do a damn thing. I don't see them have the same level of respect as Bill Gates.
I actually think Bill Gates is known more because he's in the news for his innovation (which led to $$$) but also for his charitable giving. That's why he has stayed in the news and limelight.
Whenever I see the billionaire list, I don't really recognize the names. Bill Gates I do because he's newsworth for reasons other than just his money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by library lady
Intellectualism is associated with elitism because the average person gets a college degree to make money. Period. College degree does not equal intellectual. When I was in college, I was talking to my dad about a major. He dissuaded from doing anything that wasn't practical.
|
This is true. But really, how do you pay the bills without something practical?
You can be intellectual and major in practical fields in college.
That is where the elitism comes in, I think. I mean, the old joke, what do you do with a philosophy degree? Work at the philosophy factory?
I would have loved to study a lot of things in college other than what I ended up studying, but having limited resources (and who doesn't???) I had to choose something practical to pay the bills.
That doesn't automatically mean I'm not an intellectual, or that people who are practical aren't intellectuals.
These things are not mutually inclusive or exclusive.
The trick is finding ways to get through school without letting it stifle learning and exploration. Majoring in something practical in no way stifled me. Sure, I didn't take all the classes I wanted to take in college, but now that I have my degree, I can learn about anything I want.