UPDATE
Well, this turned into quite a long, circular discussion. I thought I would make it easier by summarising where we have gotten to, so those of you wishing to catch up can see the issues I am still working through in Consensual Living. The summary is made up of a list of those things CL states as fact or as useful/necessary to execute CL. I question they are necessary for being a CL parent, and I question they can be true at all.
This is the summary post
which can be found here.
Which is, at time of writing, almost at the end of the thread so you can skip to that and see how you feel about those CL premises.
***********************
I know there are many types of family structures, but I'm interested to know that out of the choice of just these two, which appeals or which you actually follow more than the other.
I don't think they are opposites, but I don't think they fit together very well, although I am trying to make them fit.
I thought I was a consensual parent, at least, that's what I was aiming for. For the most part, this is true for me. However, I have to admit to a preference for some hierarchy so I looked into it. Anthropologically, it is actually congruent with my preferred type of parenting which is along the lines of Continuum Concept, or The Vital Touch, or to not use a book - untouched tribal type parenting.
I thought consensual living was in line with AP, but within the most AP type of communities there is a definite hierarchy and structure within the community and also family unit. For instance, in the Continuum Concept, Jean mentions how when eating, the children do not talk at all. There are a few other offhand references in her book that highlight a definite non-consensual, more hierarchical structure in the family and community.
I was brought up with a definite hierarchy, with strong masculine leadership in my father. It was a very secure feeling, and although there was a lot of non-consensual structure in my life, I had and still have the most enviable relationship with my parents. Our relationship grew into a friendship but NOT until I was a teenager (right when a girl needs that friendship, ironically). It was like the structure in my childhood, and the hierarchy, freed me from the stress of decision. And this is outlined in the classic book Magical Child, where the author presents evidence of how damaging it is to engage logic in the child's brain too early.
Logic is required to make reasonable decisions. How does one reconcile this with consensual living? Esp when dealing with very small children?
All this suddenly hit me when I found myself totally and utterly intolerant of my daughter's insistence that she ride in the front seat of the car. In my determination to follow a consensual pattern, I negotiated with her long ago, and we shared. What a ridiculous thing to do! I meant well, but really, I was doing her NO favours in her future as a reasonable human being. The moment I quit the total consensual stuff and started being a little more hierarchical she stopped being so demanding and disrespectful.
I didn't change much other than things like, to continue with the car example, tell her that I am the adult, and I get the front seat, no discussion, no argument, get in freakin' line lassie. I earned these damned stripes, I sat in the backseat my whole childhood while my mother, and rightly bleedin' so, sat in queen's position up front with dad. I never questioned it, I never resented it, nothing. It was a respect thing, or something I can't quite find the word for.
I can have sex, I can drive, I can drink, I can do many things she cannot simply because I have earned both society's seal of approval to, and my own personal stripes. Some things, I have realised, are earned and granted only at maturity. That is what makes maturity so special, our milestones. Like the ceremony when a girl first gets her period and everyone comes over wearing red and welcomes her into womanhood.
So I'm starting to lose favour with consensual living, not in totality, I have just put it in a new place in our life. I always discuss with my daughter and she has more choices and freedom than any other child I've ever met. But sitting in the back seat of the car I had an enlightenment moment, not of resentment for a better seat, but for my earned place in the hierarchy - it was symbolic, and life is nothing if it isn't rife with symbolism. It spoke volumes about why we were having so many struggles she and I. It seems, in my family at least, that there are now things in which there is little choice. I will listen and I will help her understand a particular decision, but I probably won't budge. And I'm now ok with that, and oddly, she didn't seem as put out as I thought she would be. It was almost like she felt... relief.
Thoughts?
Well, this turned into quite a long, circular discussion. I thought I would make it easier by summarising where we have gotten to, so those of you wishing to catch up can see the issues I am still working through in Consensual Living. The summary is made up of a list of those things CL states as fact or as useful/necessary to execute CL. I question they are necessary for being a CL parent, and I question they can be true at all.
This is the summary post
which can be found here.
Which is, at time of writing, almost at the end of the thread so you can skip to that and see how you feel about those CL premises.
***********************
I know there are many types of family structures, but I'm interested to know that out of the choice of just these two, which appeals or which you actually follow more than the other.
I don't think they are opposites, but I don't think they fit together very well, although I am trying to make them fit.
I thought I was a consensual parent, at least, that's what I was aiming for. For the most part, this is true for me. However, I have to admit to a preference for some hierarchy so I looked into it. Anthropologically, it is actually congruent with my preferred type of parenting which is along the lines of Continuum Concept, or The Vital Touch, or to not use a book - untouched tribal type parenting.
I thought consensual living was in line with AP, but within the most AP type of communities there is a definite hierarchy and structure within the community and also family unit. For instance, in the Continuum Concept, Jean mentions how when eating, the children do not talk at all. There are a few other offhand references in her book that highlight a definite non-consensual, more hierarchical structure in the family and community.
I was brought up with a definite hierarchy, with strong masculine leadership in my father. It was a very secure feeling, and although there was a lot of non-consensual structure in my life, I had and still have the most enviable relationship with my parents. Our relationship grew into a friendship but NOT until I was a teenager (right when a girl needs that friendship, ironically). It was like the structure in my childhood, and the hierarchy, freed me from the stress of decision. And this is outlined in the classic book Magical Child, where the author presents evidence of how damaging it is to engage logic in the child's brain too early.
Logic is required to make reasonable decisions. How does one reconcile this with consensual living? Esp when dealing with very small children?
All this suddenly hit me when I found myself totally and utterly intolerant of my daughter's insistence that she ride in the front seat of the car. In my determination to follow a consensual pattern, I negotiated with her long ago, and we shared. What a ridiculous thing to do! I meant well, but really, I was doing her NO favours in her future as a reasonable human being. The moment I quit the total consensual stuff and started being a little more hierarchical she stopped being so demanding and disrespectful.
I didn't change much other than things like, to continue with the car example, tell her that I am the adult, and I get the front seat, no discussion, no argument, get in freakin' line lassie. I earned these damned stripes, I sat in the backseat my whole childhood while my mother, and rightly bleedin' so, sat in queen's position up front with dad. I never questioned it, I never resented it, nothing. It was a respect thing, or something I can't quite find the word for.
I can have sex, I can drive, I can drink, I can do many things she cannot simply because I have earned both society's seal of approval to, and my own personal stripes. Some things, I have realised, are earned and granted only at maturity. That is what makes maturity so special, our milestones. Like the ceremony when a girl first gets her period and everyone comes over wearing red and welcomes her into womanhood.
So I'm starting to lose favour with consensual living, not in totality, I have just put it in a new place in our life. I always discuss with my daughter and she has more choices and freedom than any other child I've ever met. But sitting in the back seat of the car I had an enlightenment moment, not of resentment for a better seat, but for my earned place in the hierarchy - it was symbolic, and life is nothing if it isn't rife with symbolism. It spoke volumes about why we were having so many struggles she and I. It seems, in my family at least, that there are now things in which there is little choice. I will listen and I will help her understand a particular decision, but I probably won't budge. And I'm now ok with that, and oddly, she didn't seem as put out as I thought she would be. It was almost like she felt... relief.
Thoughts?