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atheist/agnostic tribe

67K views 698 replies 186 participants last post by  Earthyone 
#1 ·
Welcome back!

Welcome to the new atheist tribe!

We have removed the last tribe thread because of multiple User Agreement violations. I deleted the OPs post above so I could use the same URL (this way everyone could find the thread easier). I could not remove the post completely or it would delete the whole thread.

The atheist tribe is great place to discuss many issues:

  • Handling holidays
  • Raising your kids in an atheist home
  • Talking with family and friends
  • You're atheist, your spouse is not

If you would like to talk about religious or spiritual issues, please post those discussions in our Religious Studies forum. Keep in mind that Mothering respects all members' rights to practice religions that feel right for them, just as we respect the rights of members not to follow or believe in religions or common beliefs.

Please remember the stated purpose of the Finding Your Tribe forum:

Quote:
Though Finding Your Tribe was originally opened to help parents find each other based on their location we have welcomed tribe threads for parents of a like-minded path to meet and chit chat with one another. However, such threads should not take a focus of discussion for a topic that is hosted in an existing forum at MDC.

A natural course of chit chat discussion might carry you into discussing your daily lives and sharing events and struggles. But focused discussion of a parenting topic, a breastfeeding issue or problem, an activist or political issue, a religious concern or belief, just to name a few, should go to the appropriate forum for discussion with the larger MDC community. If you have any question in this regard feel free to check with the moderators before posting. Should you post or thread not be appropriate for FYT on this basis it may be moved to the appropriate forum.

To that end, please feel free to start a new thread that discusses everyday life and general chat about life when one is an atheist. Some examples of this would be how to handle holidays, how to explain differences in religious beliefs to children, how to interact with relatives. Focused religious discussion, including critical posts about other belief systems belong in religious studies.

Focused religious discussion, including critical posts about other belief systems belong in religious studies.All posts in religious studies must adhere both to the User Agreement and the religious studies guidelines.

Please note that there is no place on MDC where it is acceptable to speak disrespectfully of another faith. The User Agreement states:

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We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled. We will not host discussions that involve explicit sexual references and are cautious about discussions on volatile topics such as abortion, religion, and race.

and

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Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

If you have any questions about this, please PM one of the FYT mods or admins rather than discussing it in a thread.
 
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#227 ·
*also subbing


i have recently realized that i do not believe in deities or a higher power. therefore i suppose that makes me an atheist, not even an agnostic anymore...
: yay, i know 'what label' i am!!! hee hee!

so...not sure what to say. i suppose i'll say i'm more metaphysical than anything...i believe in energy, essence...evolution. all those good 'e' words...evolving...

i have yet to see religulous. maybe i'll rent that today. i'd sure love to see it! religious people to me are highly fearful and wanting 'someone' to lean on...to me, as far as i see it, it is something to make very insecure people feel important and like they belong to a 'tribe'. it makes them feel self righteous and above others...and they therefore brainwash themselves to think that way is THE way...yeah. that is my psychological analysis. but you already knew that or you wouldn't be atheist. ha!


i fear death sometimes though, i must admit...it just seems so...final. esp when i may leave my children behind...that freaks me out. but that freaks most parents out, i'm sure...esp when they don't have a loving supportive significant other...and my mom is getting older so i don't know if she'd be around to care for my dc... i never should have signed up for establishing paternity w/ one of my ex's because he and his family are crazy nuts and my ex has become an extreme fundie christian...totally 'on fire' for jesus...thankfully he's in a state far from mine...i left at 35 wx prego.
: my dd's 'father' is a thing of the past...i never pursued establishing paternity, thank 'god'. (pun intended...)

and what is up w/ fundie christians thinking global warming doesn't exist??? and that the "age determination" is inaccurate of say, fossils and mummies and statues...?

its nice to be amongst those who feel similar about religion. so do most of you still think of yourselves as spiritual? how so?
 
#228 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by super mamabug View Post
Since none of the traditions you mentioned have anything to do with religion I see no reason to throw out tradition. We celebrate the solstice and equinox and take the opportunity to talk about the turning of the seasons, astronomy and other amazing scientific realities. The Easter Bunny/eggs represent fertility and spring, not Jesus resurrection.
These are not Christian images, they stole them from other traditions. There is not reason we can't do the same.
Love love love the two comments about Easter being a celebration of spring and seasons and fertility. Yesterday actually I asked DH - "wait, what do eggs and the easter bunny have to do with Jesus?" and neither one of us could come up with an answer. That's because they don't


To super mamabug - would you consider yourself a part of any "religion" or group that generally celebrates the solstice and equinox or is that just your familiy choosing what you'd like to celebrate?
 
#229 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by super mamabug View Post
Since none of the traditions you mentioned have anything to do with religion I see no reason to throw out tradition. We celebrate the solstice and equinox and take the opportunity to talk about the turning of the seasons, astronomy and other amazing scientific realities. The Easter Bunny/eggs represent fertility and spring, not Jesus resurrection.
These are not Christian images, they stole them from other traditions. There is not reason we can't do the same.
Exactly. Thieves. They didn't want anyone to remember there are other religions out there in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLM99 View Post
Love love love the two comments about Easter being a celebration of spring and seasons and fertility. Yesterday actually I asked DH - "wait, what do eggs and the easter bunny have to do with Jesus?" and neither one of us could come up with an answer. That's because they don't

Yup.
 
#230 ·
Someone on a local mommy board was talking about Easter eggs being about Jesus being resurrected so I said:

Quote:
Actually Easter eggs are from the Ostara myth (Ostara/Eostre/Eastre). The goddess Ostara turned a bird into a rabbit. The rabbit could fly but was still sad that it wasn't a bird. So Ostara let it lay eggs once a year.

Weird. I know.
I imagine I might ruffle some feathers by pointing out that truth (that Christian Easter appropriated a whole bunch of stuff from pagan beliefs). But, so be it. It is what it is.
 
#231 ·
ok...WHAT is up w/ this belief............................................ .......i saw my therapist today (she is at my countie's mental health dept. so i didn't get to choose my therapist...sigh!) & we were for some reason talking about god/higher power as we were talking about the ego & emotions (DBT stuff) and i told her no, i'm not religious. that i don't believe in deities actually existing... she said something i thought was absolutely obscene...something like, if one does not believe in god, there has to be a god to not believe in one............i was like wtf?!?!?!?!?!
i said i don't know about THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

this same woman said its ok to give a swat to children once in a while.....to that i was like HUH?! (i do NOT believe this to be 'ok' at all...........ever!) & we also disagree on how to raise/discipline children....................she thinks consequences and rewards are not punitive. whatever. i take her advice/opinions w/ a grain of salt............a very very small grain of salt...and leave them at the door when i leave.
 
#232 ·
hollyvangogh, that's great! what reply did you get?

doublyblessed, is this required therapy? are you getting anything positive out of it? A very good friend of mine was told to spank her dd by some (likely gov't funded) counselor years ago -- I was shocked and dismayed that anyone would actually advocate that for a stressed out single mama -- lots of people (myself included) have made the awful mistake of spanking in frustration, but it's certainly not, and never should be, considered a tool in the parenting toolbox!

ya know, imho...

and more on topic, I don't have any issue with celebrating whatever holiday in whatever way I like -- we sometimes examine where certain traditions began, but mostly we just enjoy the family time, the traditions and, of course, the chocolate!
 
#233 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by KLM99 View Post
Although my parents were technically "Christian" we never did much for religious holidays other than the commercial things - Santa came on Christmas and we got presents under the tree, the Easter bunny comes and brings us a basket on Easter and we'd have big family dinners on both holidays. I always very much enjoyed the traditions - leaving carrots for the reindeer on Christmas eve, listening to Christmas music, having egg hunts on Easter, etc and of course the big dinners with family and friends.

I would like to establish traditions for our family along the same lines, but am having difficulty with myself and my husband (both of us are atheists) reconciling "celebrating" religious holidays in these totally not religious ways. What does everyone else do? How do you reconcile this apparent conflict with yourself and your children? What traditions have you come up with on your own to "celebrate" these commercial, societal days off that we have that coincide with religious holidays?

I'd like to post this elsewhere on the site, but I'm not sure where is appropriate! Hope to get some response here
Thanks!
Jumping in from nowhere, because the thread title caught my eye. I've only read a few posts near the end.

I'm agnostic, and was raised agnostic. My mom was raised Christian, and lost her faith at a very early age. My dad...I'm honestly not even sure, but religion wasn't part of our lives at all (beyond learning a few hymns, because my mom liked to play piano, and had learned them as a child).

We always celebrated Christmas and Easter. To me, they were/are secular, cultural holidays, not Christian ones. Santa (in his modern incarnation), reindeer, Christmas trees, stockings, candy canes, easter eggs, easter bunnies, etc. have little or nothing to do with Christianity. To me, they have nothing to do with it at all. They're family traditions that I grew up with and am passing on to my kids. Yes - for some people, they also function within a religious framework, but that doesn't mean I have to apply that to my own celebrations, yk?

There's never been a conflict for me. Christmas is a time for family and gifts and good food and music. Easter is a time for dying eggs, and eating chocolate and talking about chicks and bunnies (I took dd and ds2 to the farm today to see if the baby chicks had hatched yet, and to look at the baby rabbits). The story of Christ only rarely comes up and it's more of a cultural context thing than anything else.

Good luck finding what works for you!
 
#236 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrariety View Post
Ooo! Ooo! Me! Me! ... another atheist island floating in a sea of Utah County mormons. There's quite a few of us hanging around, I think. (Hey! You're in my DDC!
)

Whoa! Indeed I am! What are the odds? Nice to see you here, Contrariety!!


Great visit w/my midwife today. On the client info/background form, she has a question that asks about any special religious, ethnic or cultural birth customs that we might want her to know about. I had written, "None. (We are non-religious humanists)" on the form and it turns out... she's a humanist, too! I know that a midwife or hcp shouldn't care one way or another what her clients' religious preferences are, but around here atheists are treated like criminals or lepers or something, and I admit there was a teensy little part of me that was afraid she might have a problem with our "lifestyle." (ugh) Come to find out we are both ex-mo's! (Again... what are the odds?) I'm increasingly glad I chose this MW over the others in the pool.


(in fact.. i need to go check that old thread in the DDC; you and I might have the same midwife! wouldn't that be a riot! LOL)

ETA: i was close!
 
#237 ·
We also struggle with holidays. I wasn't raised in a religious way at all, but both my parents had been raised Christian so they continued to celebrate Christian holidays in a secular way. We had the tree and stockings and Santa at Christmas and my parents created an Easter egg hunt in our house at easter. We had big family gatherings during those holidays too which I enjoyed immensely and want to have now. My extended family celebrated in religious ways, but my parents shielded my brother and I from that aspect of the gatherings as much as they could.

My DH grew up in a Reform Jewish household. They celebrated Passover, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah and Chanukah. My DH, like me, is agnostic and really could care less about holidays except that we have children who want to fit in with their peers and he wants to give them that.

I went through many years of searching to find where I belong and along the way I converted to Judaism so my DH and I do have that religion in common to some extent, just our experiences with it have been different.

Before we had kids we just celebrated whatever holiday was being celebrated depending on who's family we were with and ignored the religious stuff. It's different now. We have a 6 year old and 4 year old and another baby on the way and we don't want them exposed to religion a whole lot yet. I've also changed a bunch. I'm pretty atheist now and really don't want to celebrate holidays that are seen by our society as a religious holiday. My DH doesn't want his heritage forgotten as our kids celebrate Christian holidays, even in a secular way, so for a few years we were celebrating both Christian and Jewish holidays and trying to play down the religious aspect of it. Not easy to do. It doesn't help that now my ILs are terrified that our kids won't get any exposure to Jewish traditions (we recently moved further away from them) and are sending all sorts of propaganda our way, even though my FIL seems to be agnostic himself. It's a quandry for us.

This past December, we tried to shift away from Christmas/Chanukah and do just a Winter Solstice celebration. It was the first year we had a tree in our house and I tried to tie it to the solstice celebration rather than Christmas, but by now, the kids have Christmas ingrained in their heads. They actually felt shorted because they didn't get to celebrate both holidays. But they did because my ILs didn't play along and sent chanukah stuff and the kids begged and begged to light the menorah and we gave in but didn't recite the prayers. My family played along and joined us for a solstice celebration, but it was just our usual Christmas party with a different name so to me it was no different and then they brought over Christmas gifts on Christmas day so I guess they didn't really play along. There were still WAY too many gifts (this is another issue I have with these holidays aside from the religious issue) and the kids just got annoyed with our attempts to talk about the solstice. I need to figure out a way to just do one celebration and know that it will be a difficult transition for the kids the first few years. It would be easier if my DH and I weren't from different religious/cultural backgrounds. I totally understand his desire to teach the kids about his heritage, unfortunately, religion is very closely tied to his heritage so it makes it hard.

We haven't done anything to celebrate Easter. The kids know about it from their friends, but we don't celebrate it in any way. They went to a baseball game on Easter. We also didn't celebrate Passover this year, but mostly because we live too far away from my DH's family to go every year. Even when we do go, it's not to celebrate the holiday, but to see family. Hopefully, as the kids get older and we talk more about what the holiday is for and why we don't celebrate it, then they will understand and appreciate the time with family.

I don't think that really gives you any ideas for reconciling your agnostic views with religious holidays, but you aren't alone in your internal conflict about the issue. I think about it alot. More than I should probably!
 
#238 ·
Sorry I didn't see your question! No we are a completely secular family. I, however see no reason to throw out our cultural traditions when it comes to raising my kids. Egg hunts, family meals, gifts in the winter are all wonderful traditions that are waaaaay older than the religious affiliations they currently hold. Cultures around the world celebrate these times in one way or another. I believe that the awesome way of the natural world is way more exciting and awe-inspiring than religion. I hope to pass that passion on to my kids! So we take the opportunity to teach about astronomy and seasons etc while still enjoying the traditions of our society and culture.

For more info I really recommend reading the essay "Losing the holy, keeping the day" from Parenting Beyond Belief.

http://books.google.com/books?id=cgr...esult&resnum=4
 
#239 ·
I'm a post-Mormon who is not sure where she sits spiritually yet, but is quite sure where she *doesn't* sit. Organized religions make my skin crawl now, so any of those are out.

I'm not sure I'm atheist or agnostic. I've classified myself as an apatheist - don't care if there's a god or not - since I left Mormonism. I'm spiritual, for sure, but drawn to Eastern spirituality and Pagan (earth acknowledging) rituals, not any type of 'religion'.

I am in the unique position of being comfortable not having any religious beliefs, but feeling it necessary to counter the religious holidays with something as fun, exciting, or meaningful *outside* of religion since my husband, my extended family, and my in-laws are all still active, practicing, sometimes fanatical Mormons. I have at least one child who is very spiritual and could easily turn to what I believe is a harmful religion if she sees it as the only outlet for her spirituality.

So that's where I am. Glad to find this group!
 
#241 ·
Hi everyone!

I'm a longtime lurker at MDC, but only recently jumping in to comment. I just found this tribe, and, while I don't really self-identify as an atheist/agnostic (my beliefs are in flux), I am definitely not religious and I definitely want to raise my daughter secularly. I am not sure yet how we will celebrate (or not) holidays, whether we will attend a UU church, or if we need to tell my mom she can't take my DD to church with her when she visits.

Anyway, I'm glad to find this thread. I'm subbing.
 
#242 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by AuntieLiz View Post
(in fact.. i need to go check that old thread in the DDC; you and I might have the same midwife! wouldn't that be a riot! LOL)

ETA: i was close!

Not quite the same midwife, but close indeed. I assume mine isn't of LDS persuasion, though... not that I'd really care too much about having an LDS midwife, so long as she wasn't insisting on priesthood blessings or something like that.

We really used to have a good ex-mo tribe, but it got lost when MDC restructured a while back. Someone should start a new one, eh? Being ex-mo is different than just having been christian and then no longer christian, you know? It's a culture that is pounded into your bones, into every aspect of your life, especially when you are born into it. FWIW, I never believed the church was true, even as a kid, so I really tried to up the cultural stuff so that I could pass. My LDS friends are really amused at how much of the culture I retain even though I haven't even self identified as LDS for over 10 years.
 
#245 ·
It would go in Spirituality, unless you're looking for a discussion/debate, then it'd go in Religious Studies. HTH


So....DD and I were grocery shopping yesterday and were proselytized to AGAIN. I swear we are in the most conservative part of the country...and it's not the south!! I must have Atheist tattooed onto my forehead or something...good grief! It was this little old lady inviting me to her church up the road from my house. I know the church, they are VERY conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical Baptist. They come door knocking every spring/summer...ugh.

Anyways, I took her tract and said thank you and threw it away in trash can in the next aisle. One of these days I'll have the guts to say "We're atheist, no thank you". But it'd start WWIII, so I have some hesitation about it. YKWIM?
 
#246 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrariety View Post
ETA: Do I eye spy the big fat "Y" in your (I'm assuming) engagement photo? How things change, eh?
Maybe...
:

It's one of my best pictures and I figure most people won't notice nor know what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
One of these days I'll have the guts to say "We're atheist, no thank you". But it'd start WWIII, so I have some hesitation about it. YKWIM?
I totally understand. Sometimes it's just not worth the conflict, especially when the chances of changing minds is slim to none.
 
#247 ·
Exactly, it's not like granny-blue-hair is going to say ohhhh ok well I see your point. And I'm certainly not going to fall into epileptic spasms of repentance....so what's the point?

I just hope someday it's not such a freaky thing that you have to even THINK about being careful who you mention it to. It's cool to be gay, it's cool to be multiracial. But atheist?? OMG....THEY are psychos!
 
#248 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
It's cool to be gay, it's cool to be multiracial. But atheist?? OMG....THEY are psychos!

I'd say it all depends on where you are. It's definitely not cool to be gay or multiracial to some people in certain places. And that's sad.


But yeah...it is weird how people can't seem to understand how someone could be atheist. That's why I like this quote:

Quote:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
 
#250 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
That's interesting


Anyone here see Religulous? We just watched it last night...AWESOME!

Yes! LOVED it. He raised some amazing points. My hubby and I kept having to pause the movie to discuss some of the things he brought up.

Can I join? I'm agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I just haven't found the time to make up my mind
My hubby is definitely agnostic leaning the other way, but so far, we've come out unscathed. Our hope is to raise our DS to be a tolerant, embracing member of society. The only issue that we've run into is Christmas, and I seem to be fighting a losing battle on that one. I'll keep working on it though :p

I'm glad this group is here!
 
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