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consensual living tribe 2009!!!

9K views 70 replies 30 participants last post by  spottiew 
#1 ·
anyone want to get consensual for 2009?
 
#52 ·
Sending you happy vibes! I'm sorry that happened to you
We are not completely CL, but try really hard and I love how we are all more connected and happier overall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt View Post
Hello!

So, I did an interview for a semi-local large newspaper - and I guess did not actually realize how many people would read it...lol..

I was slightly misquoted, or morelike - the bits and pieces of what was quoted are made to seem like something I didnt say..but that's not the point - I knew that could and does happen when you do an interview..

What i was prepared for was the emails/facebook msgs and what not I would get from family/friends basically attacking me and criticizing me. After reading those, then finding the article, and then reading the comments to the article...Im feeling really down, and really unsure. Yes, I know its just a moment..

Anyways...can you guys send me some good vibes - and I dont know..share why and how CL has helped you and your family...I know we do that a lot, but I could really use some good stuff right now...I just feel really personally attacked, and hadnt prepared myself..
 
#53 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by honeyhaze View Post
I have a newborn and I'm interested in implementing some CL principles from the beginning. I know it's a little early, but is there anything I can try and do at this early stage to start us off on a good foot?


Thanks,
Mariah

hi mariah,

i think respect and responding to the baby's needs are key.

many times i hear people use a mocking or teasing tone when babies cry or express their displeasure. just taking them seriously when they are upset and being respectful would be a good way to start off consensual living with a baby. really all the practices of AP.
 
#54 ·
Besides what the PP said I would join the Yahoo CL group if you haven't already to read about some of the issues and solutions that are given there. It's taken me awhile to wrap my head around CL and I wish I could just read the whole list from the beginning.


For *me* as a parent it has been important to work on my issues from my childhood. My children have definately brought out the best and the worst for me to deal with. There are lots of suggestions for books on the yahoo list and I have also found journaling to be helpful. What has helped the most is energy work like Reiki to clear out old energies I was hanging onto and didn't need. So if this applies to you maybe you could start/keep working on them now.
 
#55 ·
I completely recommend journalling as well - its a great way to get everything out, and work through thoughts you've had during the day or situations you dont know how to handle or whatever....
 
#56 ·
I'm open to guidance in this scenario, any ideas on how I could have handled it better.

DS is newly potty learned. He has been having mostly accidents lately, and seems to do well with reminders. I have asked him if he wants to go back to diapers and he has said no, so that's fine. A reminder looks like this "You haven't used the potty in a while, want to try before lunch?" or "If you have to go potty, I can go with you and keep you company." or "You are really into your playtime right now. Can we take a break to use the potty, and I will make sure that toy is still there for you when we get back?" or "It's been a while since you used the potty, if you want to use the potty but don't want to stop playing you could bring that toy with you?" (if its a bigger toy I will even carry it for him). If he doesn't want to go I don't push it, though I admit I have some words running through my mind when he has an accident 5 minutes after a potty suggestion lol. I don't want to pressure him though.

Today he wanted to go with my husband to run errands. I told him I would like him to get dressed and wash his face first - no problem. He did wants to run around and jump on the bed in between, I let him know I want to jump on the bed too and would join him after he got dressed, of course he was welcome to jump on the bed all he wanted. He jumped for a bit, then got dressed, then we jumped some together. So anyway, here he is all ready to go....

I asked if he would like to use the potty before he went, since he hasn't been in awhile and it might be hard to hold it for a long time while with Daddy. He said he didn't have to go. So dad let him know "I wouldn't like pee in my car." and I offered some solutions "Would you like to wear a diaper just this once? bring a towel to sit on? or try to use the potty before we go?" He doesn't talk a great deal, so he didn't have any suggestions of his own to offer, but he agreed to try to use the potty before we go - the underlying issue was he was afraid daddy would leave with out him - and he asked for us to give him 2 minutes and I told him that daddy wouldn't leave without him and that he would wait until he was done trying to go potty. So, he tried to go potty, and he did.

oh, the other thing was - he could still go with daddy even if he didn't use the potty, wear a diaper, or sit on a towel - but DH told him that if he had an accident this time that next time he would want DS to try one of the solutions (trying to go potty, bringing a towel, or another solution) before going with him.

insight and ideas for improvement welcome. I mean, obviously this worked for us, and DS was happy with the arrangement as well, I know I wasn't intending to be coercive, but sharing these examples may give me insight towards other future situations as well... perhaps this was *not* a good example of living consensually, and I could learn something here.
 
#57 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by umami_mommy View Post
i would reframe your thinking about it... instead of saying she is obsessed, say "she is really enjoying her TV time." this reframing will make it less negative for you and you can gain some joy by seeing her joy. the more joy to spread all around!
: focus on enjoying her pleasure and thinking about how you can help create more for everyone.

HTH!
oh i love this! thanks for reminder to re-label my thinking and outlook on things...

i'm subbing and learning also....is this related to living a radical unschooling philosophy of life/unconditional parenting? seems like it. i likey!!!


i look forward to learning more about this...
:
 
#58 ·
anyone know of any good solid ones? preferably in the west...could be southern, like new mexico or arizona...even could be in mexico/central or even south america. i feel like this is what my family needs...i am tired of living amongst what seem like aliens/drones... i want like-minded consensual community of other families...and nature. and animals...not something in the middle of a large town or city...

thanks!
:
 
#63 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieHornych View Post
i didn't think the article was really negative- it seemed to showcase thoughtful, respecting parenting.
It definitely seemed negative to me, since they ended the article with an expert slamming consensual living. For what it's worth, though, I saw part of this article in a newspaper through news of the weird, and it did not show the negative ending.

I'd forgotten about it, though. I'd love to talk about it more, if it won't rile anyone's feathers too much. It sounds like it's a sensitive topic for you, poiyt. But when my partner and I read the article, the doctor example really hit us. I know taking it out of context of the larger relationship may make it look very different, but one of the things I've struggled with the most in my CL journey is that when the process breaks down and often having thoughts when this process breaks down that what I need is more important. From my perspective, I give way to when she needs something, even if it means sacrificing something I need. But at times when it's two in the morning and I'm falling asleep on my feet and my daughter is yelling at me because she wants me to stay awake and play with her, I have a really hard time viewing her need to play with me as equally legitimate as my need for sleep.

Maybe this is off-topic. Anyway.
 
#64 ·
I am totally open to discussing it
The only sensitive part was the critique from my family, and the fact that I was misquoted...or misunderstood...

I think for me, in regards to your general query about whose needs supercede who - I have two thoughts. 1) As an adult you are better able to assess needs, you are also able to be of the mindset that things can be just as fine/happy/"good" if you dont get what you want. There doesnt always need to be compromise - because its not a compromise - its simply a change, and you can recognize that you can be just as happy and satisifed with the change as with your original want. I dont think children have that ability - I think thats something we must show them. Its okay to want things, its just as okay not to get exactly what we want. And 2) Sometimes a need isnt directly expressed. Her wanting to play at 2am...maybe thats not the need. Thats just the result of the need. I cant say what the need would be as its not my child, and every child and every individual is going to be different.

I just got a daily groove the other day...and it really struck me (well..a few have). Anyways. it was about wants. In it, he talks about a child wanting a bike, and you cant get them the bike. He speaks about finding joy in the wanting of the bike, and dreaming of the bike - and that its just as fine and can be fun to not get the bike but to be in the moment of wanting the bike - of course he says it much better....I really recommend subscribing to the daily groove if you arent already.
 
#66 ·
I tried this for a while but returned to a mostly authoritative parenting-style with CL leanings. I was trying to incorporate the ideas into a very competitive, rivalry-filled house of 3 school-age/teenage boys with the teen having behavioral special needs, and total CL wasn't working. I am still very interested because I think it CL is a good idea in theory and I think the values of it are so much more conducive to family harmony than many other styles of communication, discipline, etc.

It seems though that CL theory has a tendency to be misinterpreted and mispracticed in real life in ways that make it stressful on everyone or at least on mom and dad. It is easy to make the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other, going from where Mom and Dad are "in charge" to a point where adult needs no longer considered as an equal part of the equation. For example, if mom is tired and needs to sleep and DC won't go to bed so mom just stays up, that's not CL as I understand it. A child pooping and peeing on the floor where others have to walk is not CL. It is equally important IMO to meet childrens needs and also teach them to help meet the needs of others which required giving up some of our own needs. Leave out the second part and that's not CL.

The other struggle I see is a lack of understanding of early child development. I don't mean that in an offensive way, so please no one take it that way, its just my educational background and I see it conflicting at times with the way CL is implemented with young children. Children are not born fully quipped to converse their needs nor understand cognitively everything that you are saying to them. Its a developmental process that takes the first several years. Its part of their growth. I have a hard time with parents asking questions of 2 or 3 year olds that are better suited for a 8 to 10 year old to answer. Many problem-solving questions are in this category. Children need an observational period to learn how to problem solve, observing good adult role-models before they can be questioned about solutions. They must see effective solutions in practice before they can be expected to understand and contribute to problem-solving. Language development and cognitive development are separate areas of development so even children who exhibit high verbal skills may not understand the abstractions and representational thinking of an adults, and vice versa, a child may be advanced cognitively but unable to articulate it. Young children can express needs and in CL their needs would be considered equally valid, but I think it is more developmentally appropriate for the parent to meet the need calmly and without too many questions or abstract thoughts until after age 7 to 8.

One last concern is the need in early childhood for security. There is a security in knowing that your needs will be met by someone bigger and stronger than you. A parent always going to the child to make decisions could potentially cause a child to feel vulnerable and insecure, when the design of the approach is to create the opposite effect. I am sure this varies widely with each child's temperament as to whether this occurs. I can see within my own family a child who would have thrived with CL from birth, whose strong temperament often clashed with his fathers (XH) rigid rules, and another child who seems to really need and value parental guidance and authority in a way the other resents.

So one might need to approach CL differently with toddlers than teenagers. In our house we'll have both shortly so i am trying to figure out what approach will work best for us as a whole and not make me crazy in the process. Maybe I don't know enough about it to implement it effectively myself. For example, my son, 13, agreed to go to the zoo this morning during family breakfast. Now he says he won't go, that zoos are stupid. He cannot be left alone in our house because he steals money (he has behavioral issues that are supposed to be helped by CL but I find it very hard to practice it with him).

Ok...had to leave this post sitting here while DS had major behavioral blowup and I spent too much time on it (the post, not the blow-up ) to let it go...so I'll just end here and hope its coherent and of value to someone!
 
#67 ·
Cross-posted because I put it on the wrong thread-that's what I get for multi-tasking!
I am finding that this thread really ties into the way I would like to be raising my son-I am very inclined to just let him do as he likes most of the time as long as he isn't hurting himself or anyone else. (He can't eat or paint with the Desitin, for example, but he can smear edible fingerpaint on his head if he really wishes to..he is washable!). I do have many questions though.
My ODS is only 20 months-how does the concept of consensual living and freedom of choice tie into things like bedtime? He is pretty willing to go to bed when he's tired-he crawls in and lays down. What about the nights when he's obviously tired and fighting sleep?
What about naps? He needs one, takes one...isn't always enthused about it though.
How do I implement PLing? He is indicating that he is ready to try the potty...would it be considered consensual if I introduce it??
What do I do if he hits his baby brother??
What if he wants to do something that's obviously dangerous like go into the road?? There obviously isn't a compromise for this sort of situation...do I resort to redirection??
Sorry if my questions seem ignorant or silly...I am at a transitional point with ODS and would like to handle it in a way that makes him feel respected. I have more questions but I can't think of them right now...thanks in advance for any input!
 
#68 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by earthmama4 View Post
One last concern is the need in early childhood for security. There is a security in knowing that your needs will be met by someone bigger and stronger than you. A parent always going to the child to make decisions could potentially cause a child to feel vulnerable and insecure, when the design of the approach is to create the opposite effect. I am sure this varies widely with each child's temperament as to whether this occurs. I can see within my own family a child who would have thrived with CL from birth, whose strong temperament often clashed with his fathers (XH) rigid rules, and another child who seems to really need and value parental guidance and authority in a way the other resents.

this is about what i am being told my my kid's preschool director... the whole 'children need limits' etc. which is just not my style, for better or worse. but i don't know what to say/think back to her.
 
#69 ·
when pondering the "CL" perspective (whatever that is!), i usually turn it around and see how a situation fits on an adult.

my response would probably be something like "*adults* feel better when children have limits. *all* human beings have a need to be free. as long as ______ isn't hurting someone else or threatening his/her life, we don't place artificial limits on our children. if he/she is being risky, we help him/her do whatever safely. how would you feel if someone put arbitrary limits on your behavior?"

i think also, explaining the difference between permissiveness and respecting autonomy is in order. one is about being disengaged from a child, the other is about respecting and trusting a child and his/her need for exploring, being independent and competent.

children, i think, need to believe that someone will be there for them when they need them. i don't think that equals limits. i think children need to understand (over time) how their behavior effects others. i think children need help learning to respect others boundaries. but i don't think they need limits put on their behavior unless it's things like not hurting others, putting their seatbelt on in an airplane, not running into oncoming traffic. i can't stand it when people tell my children not to run, not to climb, not to stand in a shopping cart, not drink out of an open cup. these are all constructed limits that have more to do with adult needs than children's needs.

forcing a child to do something doesn't teach them much. modeling teaches so much more.
 
#71 ·
there are times when he seems to be asking me for limits and direction- which i figure must be consensual since it's his idea and he engages in that interaction... and there are times when it seems needed to 'help' in cases where can't/doesn't help himself. i don't know if this fits with CL, but it seems true for us and meets his needs. i think i would be cruel to watch him suffer being out of control when he doesn't know the repercussions. he doesn't want freedom all the time as far as i can tell. i try (in my mind anyway) to provide structure and support w/o 'rules'- except the rules that he likes to make. but i also try to take care of our family 'rhythm', as that matters to me- he often derails that, then feels lost without it. i wish he had more sense of his own rhythm and regulation of self, but that's always been hard for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by umami_mommy View Post
when pondering the "CL" perspective (whatever that is!), i usually turn it around and see how a situation fits on an adult.

my response would probably be something like "*adults* feel better when children have limits. *all* human beings have a need to be free. as long as ______ isn't hurting someone else or threatening his/her life, we don't place artificial limits on our children. if he/she is being risky, we help him/her do whatever safely. how would you feel if someone put arbitrary limits on your behavior?"

i think also, explaining the difference between permissiveness and respecting autonomy is in order. one is about being disengaged from a child, the other is about respecting and trusting a child and his/her need for exploring, being independent and competent.

children, i think, need to believe that someone will be there for them when they need them. i don't think that equals limits. i think children need to understand (over time) how their behavior effects others. i think children need help learning to respect others boundaries. but i don't think they need limits put on their behavior unless it's things like not hurting others, putting their seatbelt on in an airplane, not running into oncoming traffic. i can't stand it when people tell my children not to run, not to climb, not to stand in a shopping cart, not drink out of an open cup. these are all constructed limits that have more to do with adult needs than children's needs.

forcing a child to do something doesn't teach them much. modeling teaches so much more.
 
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