I recently took my sister's two children to the park. The younger one is a girl aged 3, the other is her 9 year old brother.
We walked to the park, so my sister told me to put the 3 year old's harness and reins on her (she's a runner, god bless!).
For the return trip though, the brother was unhappy because we didn't stop off to get ice cream. He started chucking a tantrum and ran far ahead. I asked him to stop, but he said no.
Because it was getting dark, I took the reins off his sister and put them on him instead for the remainder of the walk home while holding the girl's hand very firmly (needless to say he was extremely upset with this).
Did I do the right thing, or was it an overreaction?
Also, just out of interest, what would you have done in this scenario if the child was older? Would you still turn to something like reins if the child was 12 or older but they still fit?
Originally Posted by beanma
Overreaction big time unless he's got some special needs. I have a 9 yr old and there is no reason in the world to put a harness on a developmentally neuro-typical 9 yr old child. I hope you apologized to both the child and his mom.
If you could give some more particulars I can tell you what I would have done. Talking would be my first tactic. Empathize with his disappointment. Brainstorm other solutions (another time to get ice cream, a special treat to have at home, etc). Invite him to help you come up with a solution. If you're still having difficulty a call to mom or announcing that you'll need to call mom might do the trick. Harness is basically equivalent to putting him in diapers or a stroller. Really humiliating.
:
I think you may need to stop taking the kids places alone until you have a better understanding of your nephew.
Come on: I don't think it was the OP's intention to humiliate him. It seems she was scared, the child was out of control, and she used what resources she had to keep him safe. She didn't kick him in the leg, or trip him to get him to stop.. she used a harness she already had with her, that was supposed to be used for the 3 y/o. The child was not listening obviously. I'm SURE there could have been other ways to handle it, but the OP handled it the best way she knew how, and it wasnt' abuse.
Originally Posted by Kailey's mom
Come on: I don't think it was the OP's intention to humiliate him. It seems she was scared, the child was out of control, and she used what resources she had to keep him safe. She didn't kick him in the leg, or trip him to get him to stop.. she used a harness she already had with her, that was supposed to be used for the 3 y/o. The child was not listening obviously. I'm SURE there could have been other ways to handle it, but the OP handled it the best way she knew how, and it wasnt' abuse.
Yes, that is all true. But she is asking for feedback.
Kailey's mom: My 9 year old is starting puberty. I shudder to think what the effect of being bound by an adult would be.
9 years old is far too old, short of special needs, to be harnessed by an adult for any reason short of violent actions that cannot be handled any other way.
So, yes, it was an overreaction. The OP asked for information. Now she has it. It was an entirely inappropriate way to handle the situation.
She's going to need more tools in her toolbox before heading out with the children again for everyone's safety.
Originally Posted by chfriend
So what did happen around the ice cream?
Not the OP, but she did say it was getting dark. Back to the pesky assumptions, but I'd guess it was close to dinnertime? Or maybe she didn't have any/enough money? The kids were already being difficult? She needed to get them home so she could go somewhere? Lots of potential reasons that I could see.
I wouldn't have done that. But, I would have certainly been really mad that he acted like I SHOULD buy him an ice cream.
At nine, I was going all over Chicago by myself. I would certainly not have chased a nine year old down the street. (I'm picturing my own neighborhood though) even after dark. He can sit in the front yard alone until the younger one and I got back.
A nine year old can probably run ahead a little way. Just a good loud "See ya at home... watch out for wild dogs!" would have been sufficient.
Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.
Originally Posted by chfriend
Kailey's mom: My 9 year old is starting puberty. I shudder to think what the effect of being bound by an adult would be.
9 years old is far too old, short of special needs, to be harnessed by an adult for any reason short of violent actions that cannot be handled any other way.
So, yes, it was an overreaction. The OP asked for information. Now she has it. It was an entirely inappropriate way to handle the situation.
She's going to need more tools in her toolbox before heading out with the children again for everyone's safety.
So what did happen around the ice cream?
That is true, I'm just afraid of hurting feelings.
I noticed a few questions came up, so I'll answer them here (although the originally question has been answered anyway, so it probably isn't so useful anymore).
The park is about a mile or so away. The 9 year old is quite capable of walking that distance, the 3 year likes to walk some of it and then get carried for some of it.
The reason for no ice cream was that I had some change, but not enough to buy them both one. A little embarrassing, but I never even considered ice cream for on the way there or home again.
As for the frequency that I do this, well, I don't do it very often. It's usually just a favor to my sister so that she and her hubby can do something like dinner. I guess you could say that I do something with the kids, alone, once every month or two.
Finally, the child wouldn't have been running to his place -- he would have been running to mine. I'm not sure whether I should trust that he'd get there on his own.
((hugs))
i think you did what you could with the information you had at the time. no one here on MDC was with you to show you the perfect gentle way to handle it. sometimes, "talking it out " does not work you have to ACT to protect the child. period. so do not take the words of a bunch of people (including myself) whom you do not know and whom do not know you or that child.
if it had been me, after we got home, that child would know that it would be a cold day in you know where before we went to the park again, much less get ice cream.
fwiw:
i have a very busy 2.5 year old, she runs! i have harness for her and it has protected her on more than one occasion. i am glad, yes even great-full to have it.
Originally Posted by chiromamma
Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.
There have been threads on this. The gentle use is not to yank the child back, but to let the leash remind the child of how close they need to stay for safety.
LOTS better than the kid having no freedom to explore ("hold my hand or you have to ride in the stroller!!") and/or getting an arm cramp from holding their hand up the whole time.
Much more respectful than giving consequences for an age-appropriate lack of impulse control and desire to wander, while still giving a good safety net in case of trying to dart into traffic or wander too far away in a crowd.
My nephew needed one and refused to wear one and it was obvious to EVERYONE that he would have been happier with it instead of constantly needing to be in the stroller to keep him safe.
As for what I would've done, I think I would've left the 3 year old on her leads to explore as she saw fit, and would've locked arms with the 9 year old so he would be walking WITH me and I'd tell him that it was totally unsafe to run off like that and that if he couldn't stay with me under his own power that I would help him.
Depending on the length of the trip, I'd either walk him all the way home like that, or I'd "let" him talk me into trusting him to stay with me.
And I would've freaked out and yelled at him first
Well "yell" more bellow, "stay with us!" and how I responded after that would really depend on how he reacted, like if he came right back I'd be more likely to just ask if he could handle staying with us or if he needed to hold my hand.
Obviously, can't say what I'd actually do in the moment, but in picturing the situation you describe in the OP, that's my first idea.
As it is, you've got some great ideas for if, heaven forfend, the situation comes up again.
Wow, "bound by an adult"? That's how people are seeing this?
He didn't stop when you asked and you had to basically chase him down and catch him like he was a toddler?
Frankly, I think you gave him too much freedom after he ran off. With me he would've been spending at least a block holding my hand at the very least and if I thought he'd run off from that he'd be held closer.
Soooo, am I the only one DYING to know what the parents thought of this?
I would say not a proud auntie moment, for sure, but nothing so awful he won't recover and one day look back on and laugh about...hell my dh's cousin rolled him up in a carpet once while babysitting because he was acting like a jerk when he was 9 and apart from developing mild clausterphobia, he's fine. Not advocating that, just saying kids are pretty resillient. He might even apologize to YOU for being such a brat to you over ICE CREAM! I mean honestly, what was that? Not cool. I am sure if you talk about it with him, he'll recover from the humiliation
.
I bet he never uses a harness on any of his kids though.
Originally Posted by hakeber
Soooo, am I the only one DYING to know what the parents thought of this?
My sister was understanding, but kinda struck me as a bit upset (but not wanting to say so). The hubby was understanding too, but remained his normal cheery self. It was only spoken of for a few minutes though when they picked the kids up, so we haven't spoken in-depth about it.
I never used a harness on my DD, mainly because it is impossible to "gently remind the child to stay close" if said child is grim determined NOT to stay close, whatever you say, ask or think, and holding her hand gave me a better control over her because she generally changed her body language before she ran in ways it was easier to read through her hand than reins.
BUT this harness was given to control a child who runs away and lacks the maturity to stay close when asked. That is EXACTLY the way it was used. It might not have been the intended child, but it was definitely the intended use.
OP - i would have been understanding and pretty embarrassed if my 9yo had driven you to such action. I would expect WAY better from my 9yo than that, especially in someone else's care.
Originally Posted by chiromamma
Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.
I've seen people inflict blackeyes on others with their hands, but that doesn't make hands abusive. It's all in how you use 'em
FWIW I always thought leashes were abusive before I had kids. Going alone to a crowded public place with two young toddlers changed my mind. It was literally a choice between staying in the house all day (we lived in a major city with no yard) or keeping them screaming in the stroller when all they wanted to do was walk. A 12 month old and a 21 month old (both boys, one with ADHD) are very small and fast and portable...in addition to the benefits listed by other posters I also saw it as another safegaurd against someone grabbing them and running off. We had many fun outings that would not otherwise have happened without the kid-leashes. Pre-kid me would have said "just tell them to follow you and put them in time out if they don't"
The annoying thing is that SOME of them are! I can remember when DD was about 18months and my friend visited with her baby and 2yo and her eldest stuck to her like GLUE and she said to me "oh, you're constantly holding her hand and talking to her - i just ignore mine and she knows to stick close". We were in a large park so i let go of DD's hand. She ran. When she hit the 300yards from us and still not glanced back mark my friend was like "oh. wow!" and i sprinted after her to bring her back. I have had so much "advice" from people on how if i just let her be she will learn to stick by me, and i have had 3 falls down stone stairs and one near-car-accident (with kid in road and car screeching to a stop) on the 4 occasions i have relented my normal position and tried it.
Originally Posted by GoBecGo
BUT this harness was given to control a child who runs away and lacks the maturity to stay close when asked. That is EXACTLY the way it was used. It might not have been the intended child, but it was definitely the intended use.
OP - i would have been understanding and pretty embarrassed if my 9yo had driven you to such action. I would expect WAY better from my 9yo than that, especially in someone else's care.
I agree. His behavior sounds more like that of a 5 year-old or younger. 9 years is plenty old enough to understand not having enough money for ice cream, or simply accepting a "no" w/out running off and having a tantrum, barring special needs.
I have never used a harness, so no experience there, but perhaps in this situation the OP is pretty lucky she had one.
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.
Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.
Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
Originally Posted by beanma
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.
Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
My oldest is almost 8 and I would never use a harness on him. I do have a 9 year old nephew (non-special needs) who can throw an amazing tantrum. He's also very big for his age. I still wouldn't use a harness if he was in my care.
Originally Posted by beanma
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.
Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.
Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
I've got a 5 and a 9...and I know that beanma will laugh at the thought of *my* 5 year old running off....but I completely agree here. If for some reason my 5 year old ran off and I couldn't contain her, not that I would, but I could see the possibility of using some sort of restraint in an emergency.
My 9 year old? Not in a hundred thousand years. And if someone else did, honestly, I wouldn't have to restrict access to her in the future, because there's no way on this green earth that she'd consent to be alone with them.
Originally Posted by beanma
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.
Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. ?
I would not be at all happy that my sister did that to my son.... But, I ASSURE you that if my nine year old behaved like that, he would have bigger problems than a harness.
It's not OK to harness a normal non special needs child. But, it is absolutely not OK for my nine year old to run off, be rude, or demand icecream. I can promise, that my own child would not act that way in the first place because it's not ever acceptable.
PLUS, I think a nine year old is capable of running ahead anyway. (not in a little tizzy fit, though) but, if my nine year old knows where to go, he or she can run ahead. I wouldn't chase them down. I wouldn't expect a nine year old to stay right next to me like that. In a mall maybe... but only because I don't want to have to spend my time looking for her.. but, on the street, "i'll see ya when I get there"
I have a 6 and 10 YO. Even on my 6 YO I would never use a harness, though I think they can be appropriate for some toddlers in some situations. At 9, DS was 100 pounds and showing the signs of beginning puberty. Not only would I not every consider using a harness on him but I would not expect him to stay that close to me on a reasonable suburban street, even at night.
I can't imagine what it would take to even get it on a child of that age, and I guess that's what I'm imagining and responding too so strongly -- a struggle and a complete violation of a child's bodily integrity. I mean, we tell our kids that no one has the right to touch them without permission and there is just no way that I can see this being accomplished without a violation of that. I don't even think forcing a child of that age to hold hands when they are unwilling would be appropriate for the same reason. So yeah, I see this as being violated by an adult he should be able to trust.
Finally, the child wouldn't have been running to his place -- he would have been running to mine. I'm not sure whether I should trust that he'd get there on his own.
It's hard to say. If he'd only been there a half dozen times most likely not. However it would have been a good time to follow close enough behind him(10 feet or more) & verbally direct him if he was going the wrong way. Most likely if he got to a spot where he wouldn't have known which way to go(or to a street corner) he would have stopped and waited for you.
Quote:
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.
Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.
Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
I have an 11yo, almost 9yo & almost 8yo. I would not have used a harness on any of them at this age. I did use one on my oldest twice when she was 2.5.
I work with a severely non-verbal autistic boy(8yo) who sort of runs away, it's more of a hopping skipping move that's not to purposely run away but he's excited about something. He also eats anything(dirt, rocks, grass, snow, things that he thinks look like food like fun tac, playdough, baby wipes). I wouldn't use one on him either.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Mothering Forum
16.5M posts
285.1K members
Since 1996
A forum community dedicated to all mothers and inclusive family living enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about nurturing, health, behavior, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!