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Why do people homeschool?

12K views 252 replies 100 participants last post by  Kidzaplenty 
#1 ·
Why do people choose to homeschool?
I guess I just don't understand how a child can receive the same amount of information/knowledge at home given by 1 parent as he can get from school with a number of teachers + through interaction/projects done together with a group of other students.

I understand that a parent (who is not a teacher) has enough knowledge to homeschool a young child...but how about older children? Does the parent really know all about physics, chemistry, geography, art and everything else to provide a good enough guidance to a child? So, even through homeschooling the child will have enough skills to go to university and do well there?

I am not planning to start a war here. Just trying to understand the logic behind such a choice (it looks like so many people want to homeschool here but are unable to do so for financial/other reasons).

Also, what is so bad about public/private schools? Sorry, just trying to understand.
 
#228 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by M_of_M View Post
The school I went to could be described as follows:
1) less goofing around
2) no wasted time
3) significantly more serious study of subjects with "real" complicated georgraphy, "real" chemistry, "real" literature, "real" biology as well as a mandatory class where they teach you how to make clothes, cook, etc. by the time you are in 4th-5th grade.

4) students must take all the classes (absolutely no choice). If they don't like math or not good at math, they still must take very challenging math classes (that at times are much harder than the math I took in my 3rd year of university here). Everything that is taught in school is considered to be general education (i.e., the minimal amount of knowledge that any adult should have).
5) my school was definitely regimented, authoritarian, very much rule-based, focused on conformity and meeting norms.
6) School starts at the age of 7 and ends when you are 17.
This wasn't Germany, by chance, was it? This sounds similar to the things my ex told me about his schooling in Germany.

Honestly, I think a school system like that would have worked very well for ME, personally. Most of what was wrong with school for me was a total lack of challenging material or serious study of, well, anything. I could put up with strict rules in a university-type setting; what was so annoying was being required to, for instance, color very carefully in the lines in the pictures of the 15 different flags that had flown over Oklahoma, in what passed for a history class. (I got a D in the class for failing to complete that assignment.)

But that's just me - I'd hate to think what happens to the kids who don't thrive in a system like yours. (Although if I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose that one over the one I experienced.)
 
#229 ·
Quote:
The school I went to could be described as follows:
1) less goofing around
2) no wasted time
3) significantly more serious study of subjects with "real" complicated georgraphy, "real" chemistry, "real" literature, "real" biology as well as a mandatory class where they teach you how to make clothes, cook, etc. by the time you are in 4th-5th grade.
4) students must take all the classes (absolutely no choice). If they don't like math or not good at math, they still must take very challenging math classes (that at times are much harder than the math I took in my 3rd year of university here). Everything that is taught in school is considered to be general education (i.e., the minimal amount of knowledge that any adult should have).
5) my school was definitely regimented, authoritarian, very much rule-based, focused on conformity and meeting norms.
Sounds like a wonderful environment for which to thrive, learn, and develop into individuals. o_O What's wrong with goofing around or wasting time? Serious study of complicated subject occurs at home, too. I chose what classes to take in high school, so?? Homeschools have rules, but as an AP, I don't identify with the authoritarian style nor do I want my child to conform to the norm. If that school was my only option besides homeschooling I'd definitely be homeschooling. I find it a shame that those kids who can't keep up fall behind, and nothing is done. At homeschool, "no child left behind" really is true. In our public schools there's pressure to conform, and some of these other things, and they are some of the reasons I plan to homeschool.
 
#230 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 in August View Post
I'm a former school teacher. Special Ed to be specific and yet we are unschooling.
Seems like I am constantly running into schoolteachers who are homeschooling or unschooling their own kids. Just off the top of my head, a good friend of ours who tries as much as he can to unschool his students within the school system (although of course NCLB restricts him somewhat) and says that he'll likely homeschool when he has children; an acquaintance who is getting her masters in education but is unschooling her own children (she is hopeful she'll be able to make changes in the system); another acquaintance who is an elementary school teacher whose children are unschooled; my nephew's middle school teacher whose children are homeschooled. Then of course there are John Holt and John Taylor Gatto, both former lauded schoolteachers, and Sandra Dodd. I know there are some here on the MDC boards too.

Quote:
I have seen that given natural desire to understand their world kids will beg to learn.
Yes. My son wasn't at all interested in learning how to read when he was "supposed" to, but when he decided he was ready it became a passion. (He's been mildly interested since about age 8 but still couldn't read a Dr. Seuss book this past winter. He just turned 10 this spring and is currently reading a book that is supposed to be for ages 9-12, so he's caught up fast, which seems to be the norm for "late" readers in a noncoercive, nonjudgmental environment.) For a while he wouldn't leave me alone, constantly following me around the house spelling out words he needed help with. The story I like to tell best is about when I was trying to take a relaxing bath and he's standing in the bathroom doorway demanding I go through all these words with him and I'm like, "Jake! Give me a break, will you?"
It's been such a delight to see unschooling working -- he is *thrilled* about learning to read. How many kids in school can say that as they laboriously work through boring worksheets, especially if they're not developmentally ready, especially if they've already been labeled "late readers" or "learning disabled"? As my son would have been. There's a reason there's an epidemic of illiteracy in this country and I don't believe for a second that it's because the schools aren't pushing hard enough. It's because their whole approach is dead wrong, and those children who learn to read well anyway do so in spite of it, but so many others fall through the cracks. Such a shame.
 
#231 ·
M&M, thanks for clarifying about your post being transfered, that helps a lot actually (since this is a support board).

I have spent time in Europe and have experience with the schools in those areas, the school system here is nothing like over in Europe....just look at the stats for schoolchildren here in America and I think your question about why people homeschool would answer itself. It is very well known and well documented (eg test scores, etc) that America has a very crappy educational system compared to other countries, it is really a shame that America can't educate yet is one of the best and biggest and richest countries in the world! It is sad really.
 
#232 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mz_libbie22 View Post
I'm assuming real=traditional and less watered down. Think Jane Eyre instead of Junie B., history and geography classes instead of "social studies," Biology instead of "health" class, etc.

And I think M&M makes a good point about learning "real" science, etc. Kids here in US don't, on average, learn "real" subjects. I know most of the schools here don't even offer Chemistry, Art, etc!!

Gosh, in all my years of going to public and private school I never ONCE took a chemisty class, only a watered down bio class ("health sciences"), ONE art class, general americanized history (which was horribly boring and what is the point if your not even learning the full truth?!). And that is one of the reasons my kids don't go to school, they don't (on average) teach "real" subjects....if they did I would reconsider us homeschooling.

I feel that kids go to school to socialize (which you can get anywhere) rather than to learn. Parents are too easy on kids in school and the teachers have lost control and who the h*ll writes those horrid textbooks?!
 
#233 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3momkmb View Post
I find this very interesting and have a couple of questions
What do you mean by *real*?
So school actually doesn't start until they are 7? No preschool or kindgarten? Frankly, if that's the case I would love to see that here!
Hm, it looks like the discussion here is no longer about homeschooling but about a school that I went to as a child.

Anyway, the answers to your questions are as follows:

By "real" I mean in depth learning of a subject. For example, if we are talking about geography, then by the time a child finishes school, he knows a lot about physical geography, (flora/fauna patterns on earth, climate on earth, where on earth we have abundance of which minerals, etc), understands topography. They study human geography, regional geography, etc. For example, when you are in grade 5, for the whole year you might study physical geography only. When you are in grade 6, you might study only human geography. By the time you finish school, you've studied all 'branches' of geography.

If we are talking about physics, then an average 17 year old who just finished school learned the following areas of physics:

1) the theory of classical mechanics in depth (including kinematics and dynamics and tons of experiments, assignments and problems related to same).
2) electromagnetism (also in depth)
3) thermodynamics
4) optical physics
perhaps something else that I forgot.

All of the above is viewed as 'general education' for an average adult in my country.

School starts at age 7 and before that time, if you wish, you can definitely enroll your child in a number of different programs (including kindergarten, etc.) but those are completely optional. Also, if you have a smart child who is ready for school earlier, then he can start school at the age of 6 (after passing a couple of tests) but then he will also finish school when he is 16. If you have a truly gifted child (once again after passing some tests), you might be allowed to skip one year of school too.

So, the school is exactly for 10 years. Students in grades 1-3 have school 5-6 days a week from 8am to 12pm only. Students in grades 4-8 have school 5-6 days a week from 8am to 1:30pm. Students in grades 9-10 have school from 8am to around 2:30-3pm. All school students have in total about 4 months of fall/Christmas/spring/summer breaks. But, thanks to the VERY STRICT regime, tones of rules, and no goofing around, students are able to learn a lot of information in school and usually they receive a well-rounded education by the time they are 17.

Hope that answers your questions.

P.S. There are A LOT of negatives about the schools in my home country too.
 
#234 ·
There are many good reasons to homeschool. Most of them have been talked about in this thread. There is one very important reason that I see missing. Children in schools are exposed to a great deal of pesticides and harsh chemical cleaners. Many schools spray for bugs monthly and clean with harsh chemical cleaners daily.

In my grade school they would spray for bugs the first weekend of every month. The school nurse was very busy the monday after they sprayed. In my class there were almost always 3 or 4 that had to go to the nurse. I had breathing problems because of my asthma. Other childen had headaches and vomiting.
 
#235 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
Regarding M_of_M's last post:

Don't you have a problem with the word "allowed" when it comes to a child's education? And what about parents who could not afford a tutor? Bad luck? It sounds like a elitist and unfair system to be quite honest, and I agree with fourlittlebirds: points 4,5 and 6 of your description of your school would also make me want to homeschool in your country.
I personally do not have a problem with the word "allowed". However, I also in NO WAY believe that the school that I went to was perfect. There are also a number of things that I like about North American schools that were missed in my country's school.

For the parents who could not afford a tutor, there is always an option to help the child yourself, right? That's what you guys (who homeschool) do all the time, isn't it? Also, if it looks like the child needs a tutor in more than one/two classes and is struggling with other classes as well, then tutoring might not work and college might be a better choice for such a student. After all, universities in my home country build on the knowledge learned in school.

I do completely agree that self esteem of students who don't do well in schools is ruined.
 
#236 ·
mammacanary.... your post reminds me of a boy I grew up with. He had terrible asthma.
His mother bought an artificial Xmas tree for his classroom teacher to use ach yr. Once we got up to 5th grade and changed rooms for osme classes she would buy one for each classroom. One teacher refused, saying it wasn't Xmas without a real tree. My friend ended up spending that class time in the library for 3 weeks. I also remember him getting really sick when they were painting the hallways one time.
 
#237 ·
For the parents who could not afford a tutor, there is always an option to help the child yourself, right? That's what you guys (who homeschool) do all the time, isn't it? Also, if it looks like the child needs a tutor in more than one/two classes and is struggling with other classes as well, then tutoring might not work and college might be a better choice for such a student. After all, universities in my home country build on the knowledge learned in school.

I do completely agree that self esteem of students who don't do well in schools is ruined.[/QUOTE]

If you have to tutor, afterschool, and enhance or add to your child's education constantly, why bother with school? My ds was very ahead of his class (even though we did no "enrichment" at home), but was refused any enrichment or advanced program due to his behavior problems. I was expected to continue to teach him at home, while punishing him and disciplining him for what he'd done at school, and he was to continue to go to school, in order to learn "how to behave". What's the point in that?

His behavior problems started and ended at school, the school admitted it was not going to teach him academics, and had gotten to the point of giving up trying to teach him how to write. A team of 12 professionals, $30,000/year public money expenditure on my ds alone, another team of professional outside the school to consult with the school on ds, and they didn't think they could teach him to write? I taught him to write well enough to be understood in about 6 months, not pretty but he can do it.

So, what's the point in school for him? The principal of his school admitted that they had caused more problems than they had solved and encouraged me to homeschool, saying "You'll do a better job than we ever could." So, again, why bother with school at all?

I'm in Canada, a slightly different system than the US, but more similar than it is to Europe. Colleges here are part of Universities, or they are very small universities. When you say college, you are probably refering to what we would call a community college, where students are taught strictly job skills.

I have absolutely no problem with ds attending a community college rather than university, and in fact I'd rather he did, at least at first, so he could have a good enough job to pay for university or any other training he would like. But what I could never agree to is the kind of system that exists in the UK, and, I'm guessing, other parts of Europe, where students are streamed in college or university at a very young age, where their future lives are determined by tests they take at 14, or, as in Britain, 11. If a British child does poorly on their tests at 11, that's it, their academic future is finishes. That's crazy, to my mind, both for individuals, and in a large-scale, economic sense.

Another thing about the difference between Europe and North America in education, is that in Europe, since WWII, public, state determined education is viewed as a large, bureaucratic doorstop to extremist thinking, while here in North America, individualism, captilalism and libertarianism have always been much more important values. It (was) taken as a given, here, that the family and community are more important than large-scale, state or corporate goals, but these values have been under assault by large commercial interests, and increasingly centralized governments for many years, and many hser's view government-run, state-dictated curriculum, compulsary schooling as an unwanted infringment on personal and community freedom, as well as unecessary corporatization and commercialation of childhood (schools here often have to sign deals with, or claim they have to sign deals with, pop companies, cable companies, etc, to provide money and goods for the school in exchange for a captive audience.)

For many parents here who choose to homeschool, it's not dropping out of a community, but in fact, choosing their families and community over impersonal state and corporate interests. Some of your confusion over hsing might be from the assumption (easy to make coming from Europe) that hser's are dropping out of society in order to isolate their cihldren and teach values not held by the community at large. But many parents are motivated by the fact that the schools no longer reflect the values of the community at large, or in fact, the values of any community.

For me, one of the most frustrating things about public school, and I know it's extremely frustrating to teachers, is that every presented in schools has to be as completely inoffensive as possible. Any materials in classrooms need to go through several vetting commitees to make sure nothing could possibly, ever, offend anyone, at any time. School books are written by commitee, materials developed completely away from any actual chlid, children are taught half-truths, because it's considered better than discussing anything that might possibly be controversial. Social interactions are contrived and controlled, based on risk assessment, and still bullying in schools is out of control.

I have no problem with sending my son to a community based school, taught by teachers who live in and have a stake in our community, and run by the parents who's children actually attend the school, as well as with imput from the whole community (the Small School concept begun in Cornwall is really attractive to me), with the children who actually attend the school being the focus of all instructional thought, but the only option I have here is to either send my son to a religious school (not an option for us), or one of the huge, money sucking, bureaucrat staffed, lumbering behemoth institutions that churn out student products.
 
#238 ·
Quote:
and who the h*ll writes those horrid textbooks?!
I read an article once by someone whose job it was to put these together... (WISH I had the link to that, but a bunch of my links got lost when the comptuer went to hell)... anyway, it was really interesting, she said that basically the writers just cull text from previous textbooks for the most part. So basically, there's no one really writing, just repackaging the same old crap.
 
#239 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by alima View Post
But what I could never agree to is the kind of system that exists in the UK, and, I'm guessing, other parts of Europe, where students are streamed in college or university at a very young age, where their future lives are determined by tests they take at 14, or, as in Britain, 11. If a British child does poorly on their tests at 11, that's it, their academic future is finishes.
Crap! I just typed a looong message and lost it!!!


Well, I just wanted to give a quick FYI about what you said.
I was actually just watching a documentary on the brutal way a 11yo child's life used to be determined because of 1 test. It used to be like that years ago, but it is not so anymore. The 11 tests sill exist, but they are more a "see where you are academically" All kids do move on to comprehensive schools (the American middle and high schools). Some kids still try to enter the few Grammar Schools still left: they are 100% free, but also exclusive and highly competitive and only the children who score high on their 11 tests come in. They are more of a status thing though, and some people are even talking about closing them altogether because usually only the higher class kids get to come in anyway.
After middle and high schools there are several different exams like in the US, but I frankly don't know how they work. What I know is that I heard homeschooling parents in our group discussing how their children did not have to take those tests to move on in their education and/or how well their children performed after years of good home education


ETA -- Oh, and in Denmark, most young people take 1 - 2 years sabbatical after high school to travel around the world, work or just grow up! They even used to give extra credits for people who did that when they applied for university, though the new conservative government is slowly trying to change it by making it less attractive for people to take it easy in university (some people were taking 12 years to graduate and costing them a lot of money!!
) At any rate, 15- 16 yos are treated as adults there and by the time they are ready for university a couple of years later most of them have been working for a while and many have their own flats, so what you think of "young" there, is not the same when you think of "young" in the US (not sure about Canada)
 
#240 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by M_of_M View Post
For the parents who could not afford a tutor, there is always an option to help the child yourself, right? That's what you guys (who homeschool) do all the time, isn't it?
Bingo!! I just wanted to hear you say it

See, what is the point of sending the kids to school if they are going to have a lot, if not all the material taught to them AGAIN at home? DD was spending the whole day at school, and then a a couple more hours in the evening with me, going over the things she had not understood! It sucked, because by 3PM the kids are exhausted and really can't take any more info in.
Now that we homeschool, she covers MORE material than the kids her own age and actually gets it all - in less than 3 hours, and in a fun way.
 
#242 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
See, what is the point of sending the kids to school if they are going to have a lot, if not all the material taught to them AGAIN at home?
Not true. 90%+ of material they DO learn in school and if we are talking about an average student, then help from parents or tutors is not required. However, as I said above, a student who does poorly in one class or another might need some extra help in which case parents or tutors step in. Also, if a child is not planning to go to university, then there is no need to get A+ in that class. A simple passing grade would be enough (in which case no tutor or help would be required).

Also, school homework is strictly for students and schools do not expect parents to help out with same.

Anyway, that's my last post about the schools in my home country. It is completely off topic here.

Thank you all for your inputs. I do appreciate it.

I will not be visiting this forum in the near future.

M_of_M
 
#243 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
mammacanary.... your post reminds me of a boy I grew up with. He had terrible asthma.
His mother bought an artificial Xmas tree for his classroom teacher to use ach yr. Once we got up to 5th grade and changed rooms for osme classes she would buy one for each classroom. One teacher refused, saying it wasn't Xmas without a real tree. My friend ended up spending that class time in the library for 3 weeks. I also remember him getting really sick when they were painting the hallways one time.
That sounds familiar. The attitude I got in school was that people (students and teachers) were not even willing to try and make compromises. If something was bothering me they didnt even try to change it. They just gave me dirty looks when I coughed and gasped for breath.
:

Not Christmas without a real Christmas tree?
She was a real sweetheart. What about it's not christmas unless we are considerate of the fellow humans around us. I guess her idea of christmas was excluding a little boy from his class during the holidays.
That is so sad.
 
#245 ·
I'm really tired and I've worked really hard at home today so maybe I shouldn't post right now. I'd be happy to delete this if a mod wants me to. I just wanted to gently say that I'm uncomfortable with the "we" and "us" talk and basically being spoken for in some of the posts. I'm not going to name anyone. I just feel as though if someone has an issue with something that M of M has said, they should say, "I" and speak for themselves. Please don't speak for me, especially if you are not a homeschooler. Again, I realize I'm being blunt here but I'm saying this in the kindest way I know how. I just feel as though we are not a homogenous group or clique and I don't want to be spoken for. Thank you.
 
#248 ·
I've been reading this thread the last few days. So much has been said that I have felt I had very little to actually add. I did want to chime in on the subject of former teacher's having to deschool themselves. I am a former public school teacher (elementary and college level). My dh is still currently a public school teacher (high school). We decided when ds#1 (almost 6) was a little over a year to homeschool. It has been a long road, though, to deschool ourselves. I have had to shed so much of what I thought I knew about learning. The preparation we did in our teaching credential year (in California, you don't major in Education; you have a regular major in your field of choice and then continue to a fifth year for your credential) is ridiculous - honestly, not only for homeschooling, but actually for the classroom as well. The way you run the classroom really doesn't have much to do with fascilitating learning; it is about maintaining order. It is nothing like actually helping your children learn and grow in your own house. Dh is finding he has more and more philosophical conflicts between his beliefs on learning and education and what he's expected to believe and do in his classroom. We have both decided that we can't stand the public school system - the way it's ran, the philosophies that drive it, the "socialization" that takes place. Our family is much better, imo, without our children being in it. We may support it through our tax dollars (we don't have any choice in that anyway), but the type of "reform" we would want, as others have said, is not popular, it seems, with the masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marilynmama View Post
I have spent time in Europe and have experience with the schools in those areas, the school system here is nothing like over in Europe....just look at the stats for schoolchildren here in America and I think your question about why people homeschool would answer itself. It is very well known and well documented (eg test scores, etc) that America has a very crappy educational system compared to other countries, it is really a shame that America can't educate yet is one of the best and biggest and richest countries in the world! It is sad really.
It's funny, but reading what M of M said about the school she attended, made me realize that I'd be even more wanting to homeschool if our schools were ran like that. The academics offered/taught in US schools is not our top reason for homeschooling. Those "stats", to me, say nothing about how children truly learn or anything about instilling a life-long desire to continue to learn. Yes, I believe our schools are on the cruddy side, academically, but there are so many other things inherently wrong with the system that the academics don't really register on my radar, if that makes sense.
 
#249 ·
First off, don't go! I've learned a lot by reading this whole thread!

Secondly, what you describe is not the thoughts nor education I received in this country. While I completely agree with

Quote:
Also, if a child is not planning to go to university, then there is no need to get A+ in that class. A simple passing grade would be enough (in which case no tutor or help would be required).
that has never been the case IME. Parents can be the worst form of pressure when it comes to academics and grades. Just because it's not necessary doesn't mean that kids aren't pressured by parents to do more than they should.

Regarding

Quote:
Also, school homework is strictly for students and schools do not expect parents to help out with same.
Again, where you are from is not what we experience here. Plenty of homework is given (more than I feel is necessary). Parents are expected (at least where I'm at) to continue the examples and lessons that teachers taught in the day. So, parents here are expected to help out, follow through with the teachers lessons. Unfortunately, there's no helping guide for parents to follow through -- just a plan worksheet that's been copied from some handbook and no explanation to parents as to what the students learned that day much less what they are covering during the month. How can a parent adequately help their child, as expected by the school, if that school doesn't help the parent with some preparation before assignments go out?

Personally, I'd rather be more of a leader in my children's lessons than follow someone else's examples.

Please don't go! None of the mamas here are hostile, they just want to enlighten you and inform you since you asked. Many are passionate, which is as it should be. But learn from this to become a better teacher and mother, don't shy away in defensiveness.
 
#250 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
Didn't realize I had to qualify what we means
We= me and my husband
or
We= our family

It certainly does not mean me and someone I do not know
I wasn't asking people to stop using the word "we" as it relates to their family. But there have been some very specific posts here saying stuff to the effect of, "You have come here to our board, questioning what we do and we think this and we think that..." and lots of speaking for the board as though the board were one person. That's what I'm talking about. I don't want to be spoken for in terms of perceived offense from M of M. I have my own opinions and I don't like the: M of M vs "us" talk in some specific posts.
 
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