Vaccines - Now vs. Then

[just_lily]

So of course I have heard "I was vaccinated as a kid and I was fine" umpteen times since having my baby. I also have a friend that selectively vaccinates, but only the vaccines that have been around since we were kids. That got me thinking. Are any of the vaccines we use now the same that were used when we were kids?

DTaP - used to use DPT. DTaP is supposedly safer, but it is still a different vaccine.
Polio - now using IPV, used to be oral. Again, supposedly safer, but still different.
Hib - new
Pc - new
Meningicoccol - new
Hep B - new
Varicella - new
HPV - new
Flu - new
Rotavirus - new

The only thing that *may* be the same is MMR. But I notice that the Canadian schedule calls for "MMR II". When did we stop using the first MMR and move to MMR II? What is the difference?

So as it appears to me, there is not a single vaccine (except maybe MMR) that is on the current schedule that was around with a kid and I was vaccinated with (I was born in 1980). So it is a total crap shoot as to what the long term affects are from what the government wants me to inject my kid with. Nice.

Thoughts?

[Marnica]

Not only are the vaccines different for the most part. There sheer numbers are outrageous. The cumulative effect of all of these toxic additives are so much higher and HAVE NEVER BEEN STUDIED. Yes let me inject my child with what comes out to be hundreds of toxic additives (if you add them all up over time by the time kindegarten is staretd its hundreds) of which the cumulative effect have NEVER EVER been studied, and as a single vaccine have only been studied over the short term. Hmmmmm let me think. Seems totally reckless to me!

[Tapioca]

I was born in 1972 (dating myself!) and I didn't even get the MMR. I think I had polio, diptheria, and tetanus as a kid. That's it.

[Scattershoot]

The cumulative effect of all of these toxic additives are so much higher and HAVE NEVER BEEN STUDIED

This is such a HUGE point. I talked with a pharmaceutical researcher a few weeks back and asked him about the safety of these products (and that's all they are is "products"). He said that it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly determine the safety of these products for two reasons. First, there are so many products on the market they they cannot test them all against each other so they have no idea what the possible interactions and repurcussions are. Second, they test the products for a short period of time so real long term effects are not known. It is a complete and absolute crap shoot.

As a child born in the sixties, all I received was DTP and polio shots. MMR was not offered. When I was a kid, the flu was just the flu or you were "sick." No one EVER talked about the flu. Nowadays it's a death sentence and everyone runs and hides. Welcome to Bizarro World.

[CookAMH]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

Second, they test the products for a short period of time so real long term effects are not known. It is a complete and absolute crap shoot.

I heard that short period of time is about 4 hours following the shot.

[rubyinthedust]

What an interesting post, just lily. It definitely puts things into perspective.

I was born in only 1989 and it amazes me to read this and see the changes written down together. I received shots for MMR, DTaP, and polio. I might have also gotten a hepatitis shot because I remember my doctor mentioning my needing it years ago and my mom said no, but I don't know if that was in reference to a booster or starting it in the first place.

So I think that's three, maybe four, shots for me and look at what a difference there's been in not even two decades! Plus I think they require a lot more boosters than I ever got.

Just the shift in attitude toward chicken pox blows my mind. When I was kid (not too long ago!), my classmates largely enjoyed it because we got to stay home and do nothing! In fact, I was jealous of my brothers for having it because they got to miss school and I didn't miss any since I had it over Christmas break.

OK, that sort of went off on a tangent away from the researching side of it that you've been discussing, but I guess it's like this newly existing generation/the incoming ones are the guinea pigs for researching long term effects, which we are already seeing run rampant. I certainly don't plan on letting the pharmaceutical industry use any of my future children as test subjects.

[nia82]

I was born 1982 (Europe).
birth - BCG (ugh)
6 months - first DTP
12 months - first oral polio
12 months - measles
later on boosters
8 years - FSME (Euro specific tickborne disease)
12 years - rubella
17 years - hepB

I had mumps when I was in 4th rgade and loved it as I could stay home for 2 weeks - TV, playing, ice cream no school, it was awesome. I didn't think it was bad.

[melissabb]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

When I was a kid, the flu was just the flu or you were "sick." No one EVER talked about the flu. Nowadays it's a death sentence and everyone runs and hides. Welcome to Bizarro World.

ROFL! LOL!!!

Yep, we aren't even allowed to mutter the word "flu" in our home. I hate it! We too find it Bizzarro that everyone goes running to the hills or the latest closest drive thru flu clinic when the first commercials start making their way into your living room.

Hey atleast you aren't in Canada. Don't you know that it's "FREE" here too!:

Yep, there is no way in hell I would get the flu shot. My thoughts are that living in Canada I have probably had the flu multiple times in my life and lived through each one. Used to be that the flu meant you were puking and not just chills and a fever which we always referred to as "a really bad cold". Just one more example of fear mongering by pharmaceutical companies by taking ordinary illnesses and re-vamping and re-naming them to scare the public.

[MyBoysBlue]

Yes there were signs everywhere telling people to come get their flu shot but it isn't free for everyone everywhere in Canada. Here in AB it is only free if you fall into one of their categories.

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/...igibility.aspx

So almost everyone can get it for free.

Back to the original topic. I got both the MMR and the DTP and I was born in 77. I remember there were a few other things but I would have to go look it up but we are in a reno mess right now.

I did get Chicken pox at age 7 during Christmas break also. I also got mumps when I was older like 11 or 12 I think.

[spero]

Originally Posted by just_lily

DTaP - used to use DPT. DTaP is supposedly safer, but it is still a different vaccine.

Yes, acellular pertussis is supposed to be safer. Then why do we still hear so much about encephalitis and the "DTaP scream"? And why are deaths following DTaP administration almost always blamed first on SIDS or Shaken Baby Syndrome????

Polio - now using IPV, used to be oral. Again, supposedly safer, but still different.

OPV is a live virus vaccine, which is why its use was discontinued in the US. However, it's supposedly more effective.

Hib - new
Pc - new
Meningicoccol - new
Hep B - new
Varicella - new
HPV - new
Flu - new
Rotavirus - new

Never heard my mother fretting over Hib, ear infection, meningitis, Hep B (um, I wasn't a sexually active IV drug user as a toddler, AFAIK), chicken pox (childhood rite of passage), HPV (I doubt my mom even knows what HPV is!), flu (we all had it, we all survived), or diarrhea. My brother was chronically ill as child and she STILL didn't obsess over what we "might" catch afaik - she just took each illness as it came along.

The only thing that *may* be the same is MMR.

I had an MMR shot and got the mumps anyway ... and when I had my second child I learned that I'd apparently "lost" my immunity to rubella as well.

Originally Posted by Marnica

Not only are the vaccines different for the most part. There sheer numbers are outrageous. The cumulative effect of all of these toxic additives are so much higher and HAVE NEVER BEEN STUDIED.

This. They just keep adding more and more boosters to the schedule, along with all the new vaccines. What is that going to do to this generation of children eventually?

I'm scared to find out.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

This is such a HUGE point. I talked with a pharmaceutical researcher a few weeks back and asked him about the safety of these products (and that's all they are is "products"). He said that it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly determine the safety of these products for two reasons. First, there are so many products on the market they they cannot test them all against each other so they have no idea what the possible interactions and repurcussions are. Second, they test the products for a short period of time so real long term effects are not known. It is a complete and absolute crap shoot.

As a child born in the sixties, all I received was DTP and polio shots. MMR was not offered. When I was a kid, the flu was just the flu or you were "sick." No one EVER talked about the flu. Nowadays it's a death sentence and everyone runs and hides. Welcome to Bizarro World.

Interesting. But I was born in the 60's (1964) and I had MMR.

[mamadelbosque]

The IPV has actually been around slightly longer than the OPV... its just that, you know, the inventor/creator/whatever admitted that it DOES NOT WORK... which is why we didn't use it once we had the OPV... only they stopped the OPV cause' it was, you know, causing polio... and switched to the IPV which they KNOW DOES NOT WORK!! Cause' you know, the option of just. not. vaccinating. for. polio. NEVER crossed their minds!! :boggle:

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by anewmama

Interesting. But I was born in the 60's (1964) and I had MMR.

Wow...that's so unusual. What country were you in? I didn't think it was introduced until the late 70's/80's in most western countries.

[spero]

I was born in 1965. My baby book only has immunization records to 15 months - but I know I have my other records someplace.

In that time, I had

3 DTP
3 OPV
1 smallpox (UGH!)
1 measles

That's way more than I realized.

I'm quite certain that I eventually rec'd an MMR vax - I remember my mother insisting I couldn't possibly have mumps, b/c I'd had the vax, but my g'ma pointed out that I DID in fact appear to have mumps.

I also remember getting several OPV boosters (remember those sugar cubes????) and other shots at elementary school, and at the local vax clinics they had every year in our town.

Wow, I'm suddenly realizing that I had a LOT of live polio vaccine - I'm guessing at least 5-6 doses by the time I was 8 years old.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by anewmama

Interesting. But I was born in the 60's (1964) and I had MMR.

That's also interesting since the MMR wasn't licensed until 1971. Mass usage followed in the mid 70's. The rubella and mumps vaccines individual licenses didn't happen until the late 60's.

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/welco..._timeline.html

Rubella is very harmless, like the other childhood diseases. Of course if your immune system is a complete mess for different reasons (such as the result of vaccination) just about anything can push it over the edge. The real fear was congenital rubella syndrome and interestingly there was the huge push for the vaccine when very few cases existed (something like 75 in 1970 if I'm remembering correctly). One wonders if these cases couldn't have been created by other reasons and this "virus" was made the cause, not unlike polio. Let's not forget the swine flu vaccine which killed people so quick they didn't even try to cover that one up. Well they did a little, but it was pretty obvious.

[spero]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

That's also interesting since the MMR wasn't licensed until 1971. Mass usage followed in the mid 70's. The rubella and mumps vaccines individual licenses didn't happen until the late 60's.

She didn't say she had MMR as a baby ... like me, she probably had a measles vax as an infant and then got the MMR in grade school.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by spero

She didn't say she had MMR as a baby ... like me, she probably had a measles vax as an infant and then got the MMR in grade school.

That's a good point. The MMR wasn't really pushed until the mid 70's. When I think of vaccines, I immediately think of the impact on defenseless babies in particular. I should broaden that perspective.

My mother reminded me that my doctor didn't offer the MMR or I'm sure I probably would have gotten that one as well. I didn't get the measles vaccine either.

[nicolebeth]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I was born in 1972 (dating myself!) and I didn't even get the MMR. I think I had polio, diptheria, and tetanus as a kid. That's it.

I'm not used to thinking that being born in 1972 means dating myself! I didn't receive the MMR as a whole until 1989 (before entering college), but did receive each vaccine separately as a child. I had a few OPV, and was finished up with IPV. I received some DTPs and some DTs...probably a different protocol, since my mom never mentioned me having a reaction (and DS did, so I'm sure it would have reminded her).

[superlori]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

The IPV has actually been around slightly longer than the OPV... its just that, you know, the inventor/creator/whatever admitted that it DOES NOT WORK... which is why we didn't use it once we had the OPV... only they stopped the OPV cause' it was, you know, causing polio... and switched to the IPV which they KNOW DOES NOT WORK!! Cause' you know, the option of just. not. vaccinating. for. polio. NEVER crossed their minds!! :boggle:

Do you have any sources for this? For the inventor having admitted IPV doesn't work? Polio is my dh's only hesitation on the vaccine front; it would be interesting if you had a source for this.

[rahans]

Born in Ireland in 1971. There is probably not even a record of any vaxes for me! Not sure but may have gotten polio vax. Remember getting a Rubella vax at 12. And that's it. I had chickenpox, measles and mumps as a kid and lived to tell! I do remember being quite sick and miserable with measles. Even now, they do less vaxes than the US - though unfortunately they just added Hep B to the schedule.