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So I wigged out at the Walmart greeter today... - Page 7

post #121 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
.

I My kids are absolutely not being taught to be polite at all costs, but they also are not being taught that yelling at people unnecessarily is OK.
The problem with this is that it sounds like the guy didn't back off UNTIL the OP yelled at him. Apparently, a little girl screaming and saying no and clinging to her mother while he tried to PULL HER AWAY was not enough for him to get a clue. I'm not going to get in a physical tug of war over my kid if yelling will solve the problem - which it did. It doesn't sound like "No thank you" was an option anymore - it was beyond that. In that situation, I would feel like my choices were to let the guy do whatever he was trying to do, yank my child away from him, hit the guy until he let go, or yell until he stopped. I think I would choose yelling first, before violence.
post #122 of 181
Laohaire is spot on!!

And I totally agree you need to teach personal boundaries at an early age. I see nothing wrong with raising my voice to someone who obviously wasn't getting the clue... I quite honestly would have done worse... I mean seriously, what warranted PRYING a child off their OWN MOTHER?

I would say that is an emergency situation.
post #123 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Laohaire is spot on!!

And I totally agree you need to teach personal boundaries at an early age. I see nothing wrong with raising my voice to someone who obviously wasn't getting the clue... I quite honestly would have done worse... I mean seriously, what warranted PRYING a child off their OWN MOTHER?

I would say that is an emergency situation.
Yes, I agree totally. I guess some people just don't see the prying-away thing as a big deal -- and it's hard for me to understand why they don't. Maybe because I don't do forced separations with my kids, but I know quite a few people who seem to feel okay about leaving their child crying for them.

I also agree with eclipse that yelling is preferable to physical violence.
post #124 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
The child WAS saying no (by screaming) and TRYING to remove herself (but too small to be effective).





Yeah, that's true, we differ on that point. I see bodily integrity as a huge, big deal.



I guess here is again where we disagree. I consider a violation of bodliy integrity as an emergency, not just abductions. I don't see why yelling is such a terrible thing, or how prying children away is not a big deal.

If someone disagrees about how to handle a situation such as this, it does not mean that they do not see bodily integrity as a huge, big deal. Nor does it mean that they are not doing their utmost to protect their children. I have to say that I find this comment highly insulting.

I too work hard to both protect my children and develop the skills and confidence to protect themselves. As do all the other posters, I presume, who are saying that they do not agree that yelling was the best action to take.

Nor has anyone said that prying children away is not a big deal. I would have picked up the child, firmly, clearly, and decisively. I would have told the man "No." in a clear, firm voice. I would have talked to the store manager, and asked that the man be dealt with as appropriate, so that he never did it again.

I would not have yelled at him.

That does not mean that I do not believe bodily integrity to be of the utmost importance, nor that I don't do everything within my power to protect my children. I actually think that yelling at a man such as this would not help my child in the long term, and if only for that reason, would have restrained myself.

Disagreeing over how best to handle situations like this does not mean that only those who would yell are people who appreciate issues of child protection and abuse.
post #125 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Yes, I agree totally. I guess some people just don't see the prying-away thing as a big deal -- and it's hard for me to understand why they don't. Maybe because I don't do forced separations with my kids, but I know quite a few people who seem to feel okay about leaving their child crying for them.

I also agree with eclipse that yelling is preferable to physical violence.
Not one person has said that prying a child from a parent is not a big deal. But not everyone believes that yelling was the best option. There is a world of difference between those two things.
post #126 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
I guess that 'wigging out' is not a lesson I teach my children.
It's not supposed to be a lesson, it's just life. Some of us feel stress and act a certain way. Usually when I wig out, it's a stress reaction, and it sounds like it was with this poster. She can evaluate it now, and think of a different way to do next time, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon View Post
I think it's weird so many are worked up over compassion. something our society lacks GREATLY! I get that your DD was scared but geesh, what is yelling at someone for trying to comfort her teaching her?
There is irony here, really. Who says she was trying to teach her child anything in particular? It was her reaction. The point I got from the original poster's statement was that she was upset and angry, she reacted harshly, she felt badly about it to a point. Why isn't she deserving of compassion as well as the greeter?
post #127 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post
It's not supposed to be a lesson, it's just life. Some of us feel stress and act a certain way. Usually when I wig out, it's a stress reaction, and it sounds like it was with this poster. She can evaluate it now, and think of a different way to do next time, sure.



There is irony here, really. Who says she was trying to teach her child anything in particular? It was her reaction. The point I got from the original poster's statement was that she was upset and angry, she reacted harshly, she felt badly about it to a point. Why isn't she deserving of compassion as well as the greeter?
That was the impression that I got, but many responses seem to be that she did the right thing, it was not something she needs to evaluate and do better with next time. And that those of us who feel that she should evaluate her response, are simply not understanding child protection issues and are saying that what the guy did was not any big deal.

I didn't get the impression that she was trying to teach her child anything. But no matter what we intend, we do teach our children from our reactions. Some posters think that yelling at the man taught her child a valuable and useful lesson. I personally disagree. I think it is counter productive, and is not the useful lesson that speaking firmly and clearly would have been.
post #128 of 181
Honestly, we could all go back and forth for eternity on this thread about whether or not the OP should have yelled or not. It doesn't really matter if she should have or not, she did. In the same situation again, she would probably do the same thing again, because no matter what she thinks of her response, it was instinctive and not exactly planned or thought through.

The fact is, we all have our own cultural paradigms that we use to interpret her reaction, and our cultures vary so much from region to region. In some places, yelling at an old man is horrific no matter what the circumstances. In others, asserting yourself by raising your voice is a common and not entirely unexpected response. I think we all agree that the OP's child needed her protection and that other people deserve respect and compassion. How that is played out is going to look differently for all of us. It doesn't mean that some of us are more compassionate than others or that some of us care about their children more than others. We just live different lives in different worlds.
post #129 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
If someone disagrees about how to handle a situation such as this, it does not mean that they do not see bodily integrity as a huge, big deal. Nor does it mean that they are not doing their utmost to protect their children. I have to say that I find this comment highly insulting.

I too work hard to both protect my children and develop the skills and confidence to protect themselves. As do all the other posters, I presume, who are saying that they do not agree that yelling was the best action to take.

Nor has anyone said that prying children away is not a big deal. I would have picked up the child, firmly, clearly, and decisively. I would have told the man "No." in a clear, firm voice. I would have talked to the store manager, and asked that the man be dealt with as appropriate, so that he never did it again.

I would not have yelled at him.

That does not mean that I do not believe bodily integrity to be of the utmost importance, nor that I don't do everything within my power to protect my children. I actually think that yelling at a man such as this would not help my child in the long term, and if only for that reason, would have restrained myself.

Disagreeing over how best to handle situations like this does not mean that only those who would yell are people who appreciate issues of child protection and abuse.
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post #130 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisymama12 View Post
"Thanks, we're fine, DD is ready to go home. DD, let's go, sweetie."

And if you want to reinforce the boundaries issue, I (hope) I would say nicely, "dd, you don't have to hug if you don't want to. Let's go."

My background is not North American, so that may explain it, but I see the elderly man as trying to be helpful, misguided as he was. I find it sad that there is "clapping" for him being yelled at. I get that the OP was frustrated, and annoyed (could've been me, my ds was the same way), but I don't get the congratulations for yelling at him.

I hope his manager was kind when he explained how to better interact with children.
post #131 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddle View Post
Honestly, we could all go back and forth for eternity on this thread about whether or not the OP should have yelled or not. It doesn't really matter if she should have or not, she did. In the same situation again, she would probably do the same thing again, because no matter what she thinks of her response, it was instinctive and not exactly planned or thought through.

The fact is, we all have our own cultural paradigms that we use to interpret her reaction, and our cultures vary so much from region to region. In some places, yelling at an old man is horrific no matter what the circumstances. In others, asserting yourself by raising your voice is a common and not entirely unexpected response. I think we all agree that the OP's child needed her protection and that other people deserve respect and compassion. How that is played out is going to look differently for all of us. It doesn't mean that some of us are more compassionate than others or that some of us care about their children more than others. We just live different lives in different worlds.

You know, this is a really great way of looking at it. I don't honestly think that anyone who wouldn't yell in such a situation, actually would see it as "no big deal' for someone to pry their child away from them.

I realize that most people here at MDC, do agree that prying children away from their mothers is unacceptable. I guess I was just musing, in my previous post, about the fact that there are lots of lots of people who probably don't see anything wrong with disrespecting a child in this way.

Which may explain why the elderly man seemed to have no clue that he needed to stop. There are lots and lots of people who have never learned to take children seriously.

I'm honestly not sure whether or not I would yell in such a situation. When our oldest was only 5, we had a situation (in a home Bible-study) where she told dh and me "No" about something, and before dh and I could say anything, another woman (who was developmentally-challenged) grabbed onto dd and wouldn't let go, and started lecturing her about how she needed to listen to her mom and dad.

I was quietly and gently telling the woman, "Okay, that's enough!" but she was continuing to hang on to, and lecture, dd -- then dh yelled, "Take your hands off her!" I must say, his approach got instant results, whereas my more gentle approach obviously wasn't doing the trick.

So, in my case, I tend to fault myself for not having enough balls to deal with these disrespectful people head-on. And I do tend to applaud people like the OP, who find their voice and fearlessly use it.
post #132 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
If someone disagrees about how to handle a situation such as this, it does not mean that they do not see bodily integrity as a huge, big deal. Nor does it mean that they are not doing their utmost to protect their children. I have to say that I find this comment highly insulting.

I too work hard to both protect my children and develop the skills and confidence to protect themselves. As do all the other posters, I presume, who are saying that they do not agree that yelling was the best action to take.

Nor has anyone said that prying children away is not a big deal. I would have picked up the child, firmly, clearly, and decisively. I would have told the man "No." in a clear, firm voice. I would have talked to the store manager, and asked that the man be dealt with as appropriate, so that he never did it again.

I would not have yelled at him.

That does not mean that I do not believe bodily integrity to be of the utmost importance, nor that I don't do everything within my power to protect my children. I actually think that yelling at a man such as this would not help my child in the long term, and if only for that reason, would have restrained myself.

Disagreeing over how best to handle situations like this does not mean that only those who would yell are people who appreciate issues of child protection and abuse.

:
post #133 of 181
I agree, but only to some extent. Many of us have deeply programmed responses to stress, and cannot alter them. Or often, we don't want to. Either because we think our original response was fine, which settles the matter, or becasue we don't want to put in the effort to learn to do better next time (presuming that we think there is a better way.)

It depends largely on whether the OP decides that this wasn't the best way to handle the situation, or whether she, on reflection, decides that what she did was right, and so would do the same faced with such a stressful situation again. I do think that we can reprogram ourselves to respond differently in future, if we really want to. I know that I have become better at self-control when under stress as I've matured and worked on it. I'm not saying that the OP should decide to respond differently, but only that if she did decide in theory that she could have responded differently, she could make that change in herself if she really wanted to.

She said she felt badly, kinda. So it seemed to me that she was looking for responses here to help her work that through. Only she can come to a final decision about that. Hopefully this thread has given her, along with the rest of us, lots of food for thought.
post #134 of 181
OP, I think you did the right thing. I only hope that I can stand up for my kids as well as you did if I'm ever in that kind of situation.
post #135 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
It depends largely on whether the OP decides that this wasn't the best way to handle the situation, or whether she, on reflection, decides that what she did was right, and so would do the same faced with such a stressful situation again. I do think that we can reprogram ourselves to respond differently in future, if we really want to. I know that I have become better at self-control when under stress as I've matured and worked on it. I'm not saying that the OP should decide to respond differently, but only that if she did decide in theory that she could have responded differently, she could make that change in herself if she really wanted to.

She said she felt badly, kinda. So it seemed to me that she was looking for responses here to help her work that through. Only she can come to a final decision about that. Hopefully this thread has given her, along with the rest of us, lots of food for thought.
I have reflected on this for a long time. I immediately felt badly for yelling at him, I was sorry I had to resort to that type of behavior to get his attention. I DO feel I acted appropriately in this type of situation. If I had it to do over would I yell at him again? Yes. Why? Because this man was not listening to me the first time I told him to leave her alone and then he physically touched my daughter without her/my permission, granted he was trying to console her (in his own weird way) but he obviously could not read body language or understand a crying child clinging and gripping to her mother's leg does NOT want to be hugged, especially after I told him she was shy to begin with. I do feel badly it came that extent, does that make sense?
Also I want to thank everyone for their opinions, whether or not I agree with them does not matter. It gives me something to think about for sure and I can understand WHY some mothers on here would not yell. I was not in the "teaching my daughter a lesson" mode when I yelled at him. I do however understand I set an example for my children in my everyday actions and I hope she understands WHY I yelled at him. I am by nature not a yeller, I am quite patient and understanding but I have a limit and that man set me over that limit. Like I said earlier I had an internal red flag waving telling me this guy just does not feel right to me and I reacted in a way to keep my daughter safe and to console her from a stranger who surprised her and was trying to touch her. Did she understand he was trying to hug her? Absolutely not. Does my child have manners and is capable of saying "no thank you."? Absolutely. Was I going to stand there and make her say no thank you? Not at all. There is a time and a place for manners and this was not one of them in my opinion.
Thank you all for all your understanding and feedback. I do honestly appreciate it and it will give me something to think about should I ever have to go through that again. Have a very happy Thanksgiving!
post #136 of 181
I guess what I see is women being taught to be nice at all costs, and feeling badly for yelling, even if they did so to protect their own children. I yelled at a homeless person once selling their newspaper, b/c he kept getting in my face after I said "No thank you" nicely. I was waiting to cross the street and felt like I had nowhere to go. So I raised my voice and said "I! said! No!". I wasn't happy about it, but I was happy that for once, I didn't feel guilty about not being nice. Women often put themselves in danger b/c they are afraid to not be nice to people. And that's all I'll say..sorry. I realize you want to end the thread but I think it's an interesting topic and agree that it's complicated. I also feel very strongly about what I mentioned above. I don't react to stress well either and I strive to be more calm, but when it comes to confrontation wrt safety, that's a whole different ball game and I am actually less likely to raise my voice. And frankly I'd like to change that.
post #137 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
I guess what I see is women being taught to be nice at all costs, and feeling badly for yelling, even if they did so to protect their own children.
Yes, the "be nice at all costs"-thing definitely seems to be programmed into me.

So much so that, years ago when I was waiting at a bus-stop, and some man asked me if I was married, and then said (as I was getting onto my bus), "Wanna mess around with a married man?" --

I politely said, "No, thank you" ... and I still feel kinda stupid for being so polite about it. I mean, I guess I didn't endanger myself. He didn't follow me onto the bus or anything ... it just seems so stupid that, when he said such an insulting thing, I still felt compelled to be "polite" in my dealings with him.
post #138 of 181
Thread Starter 
Oh I am not "programmed" into being nice, trust me I have had my moments and I do stick up for myself without hesitation, but I TRY to be polite under certain circumstances. If a man asked me if I wanted to mess around I would skip the whole polite part and let him know where I stand on that matter....get my point? However, in this particular situation under those particular circumstances I TRIED being nice but once he crossed the line of physical contact without consent it all went out the window.
post #139 of 181
I am sorry that this happened to your child I would have been scared if I were her, too.

I was abused as a child, and I agree with the poster who said that touching does not always start off as sexual. When my Grandfather started touching me, it was just as a Grandfather would, it was only later on that it progressed to being sexual

At any rate, I do not have children, but I understand your need to protect them. I believe that children should have their personal space respected. I am a teacher and it irks me sometimes when parents tell their kids that they must give me a hug. Why? If they do not want to hug me, they are well within their right not to do so. If one of my students wants to hug me, they will, and they usually do many times during the day. But telling them they have to? I just don't get it : Just because they are small does not mean that they should not get to control their personal space.

None of us knows how we would have acted in the OP's situation. Older person or not, she did what she felt she had to to protect her child, who was obviously very distraught. When I was a Nanny I raised my voice exactly once. And that was when she was running in to the street. It got her attention very quickly. So I see that raising your voice does have a time and a place. It is not like the OP was yelling nasty things to him or anything, that is the difference, in my mind.
post #140 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmommie View Post
The "No thank you" does. If it were you, what would you do in her position?
The 'no thank you' doesn't say 'don't mess with me.' It says, 'no thanks, DD doesn't want a sticker right now.'

I get that it was frustrating, and that your DD (and therefore, you) were upset, OP, but I think your reaction was a bit harsh.

I don't buy into the "nice at all costs" stuff. It's possible to be assertive without yelling at someone.
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