or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › So I wigged out at the Walmart greeter today...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

So I wigged out at the Walmart greeter today... - Page 9

post #161 of 181
Good for you mytwogirls! I tend to overthink sometimes when confronted with a strange situation and worry if something like that happened I'd be too stunned and confused to react. A few times I've reacted quickly when something odd happens & feel it's a good example for my daughter - it's really hard to give the perfect response, but I think that was really great to step in & stop him. You can always explain later that yelling might not have been the best choice (if she even noticed), but protecting your child in a strange situation definitely was. I also grew up where manners & the feelings of the other person were more important than my own & it's very hard to get over that and react to the situation instead of social protocols. I hope I can do better with that for my kids so they learn to stand up for themselves.
post #162 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_ballet View Post
I wish people would stop freaking out and talking about child molesters. Who said this man was a child molester? What if he was a misguided old man why do we immediately have to label him as a child molester?
I don't think anyone is assuming he was a child molester, just pointing out that he could have had a purpose that was more nefarious than a clueless old man trying to comfort a little girl. And since the OP said she had red flags going off about him, I think it's reasonable that she reacted the way she did.
post #163 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeschoolAK View Post
Has it occured to anyone that most child molesters don't get caught!!

I would not only have yelled, there would have been a physical encounter if anyone EVER tried to pry my child off my leg!!!!!!! Especially if I had already told that person once to stay away!! Just the thought gives me the creaps!! The world is full of phycos! A young child can not protect itself, I say well done to the OP for sticking up and protecting her child!!
post #164 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marylizah View Post
HOWEVER. Most people who try to touch you without your consent are not trying to hurt you. Start with a firm "No, thanks" and move from there if they don't stop.
This is where we disagree. Speaking as a child who WAS molested by the nice but clueless old man next door, I work on the assumption that anyone who is touching me without my consent IS trying to hurt me. If Im wrong, Im wrong, Id rather hurt thier feelings than comprimise my own bodily integrity. Ditto for my kids. I also dont see where the "no thank you" stated firmly and politely is any stronger than the child screaming and yelling and clinging to her mom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermint Leaf View Post
Everyone should be teaching their child to scream and make a fuss if someone is trying to touch/take them!!! It doesn't matter that the original intent was to do something nice!

How many child abductions would have been stopped if we taught our children this!!
Right. I dont think a two year old is capable of making the distinction between those who mean well and those who dont. It is appropriate for them to yell and scream if being forcefully taken from thier parent. Natural and a survival instinct even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
ITA.

I personally want my child to see me handle situations such as this firmly, decisively, and clearly, but not exhibiting fight or flight responses such as yelling. Aside from the fact that I think it is wrong and unnecessary to yell at a Walmart greeter, no matter if he's clueless, I think a 2 yo just learns fear from such an experience, and has no measure to know what justifies that fight or flight response in future. I would worry that my child would then not know who to fear next. I know my kids would have started worrying about every worker in every store after an experience where I yelled. But then, that's my kids, used to my way of dealing with stress, and my opinion. Others think that a 2 yo would take a good lesson from mum yelling - that you stand up for yourself and don't let anyone do anything to your body that you dislike.

Maybe there is no right or wrong answer. Our children don't learn self protection skills from just one incident. There are a myriad of different experiences that form our children's personalities and abilities to take care of themselves. We are all doing our best to instil these qualities and skills in our children, but we all take a different route to that end.
But I think the two year old was already afraid because of the guy trying to drag her away from her mama and perhaps her learning that her mama will protect her will make her feel MORE secure around the workers (at least the ones who arent prying her from her mother) in the future.

You are right, my own instincts and reactions to this story are of course a direct result of my own experiances and beliefs. As are yours. As they should be! Maybe I am more overprotective because of my past. But its amazing how many women I know who were molested at one point or another in thier childhoods and while Im not saying THIS man was going to molest her (certainly not in the middle of walmart!) it still speaks to the issue of bodily integrity and personal boundries, letting her know that its ok to tell someone not to touch you, and to be forcefull about it if they dont listen to your "No".

Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_ballet View Post
I wish people would stop freaking out and talking about child molesters. Who said this man was a child molester? What if he was a misguided old man why do we immediately have to label him as a child molester?
I think the issue of molestation comes up, not because we think HE was going to molest her right there in walmart in front of 200 witnesses...but becuase molestation is an extreme form of unwanted touch and a lot of us feel strongly that children need to learn to resist unwanted touches in all forms, becuase if they learn to accept unwanted touch, its basically grooming them for molestation because they learn to ignore thier own boundries. Its the reason why I dont force my kids to hug anyone, even grandma and grandpa.Not becuase I think my mom is going to molest my kids, but because I want to teach my kids that they are deserving of respect and that includes respecting thier personal boundries. If I declined a hug and someone tried to force one on me, I'd have a sexual harassment suit! I just dont believe it should be diffrent becuase one is a child. (Not saying you think that! Just saying why I think the issue of child molesters keeps coming up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
She didn't yell when he approached her DD the second time, she yelled when he tried to take her daughter away from her, while her daughter was screaming no. He was ignoring the "no" that her daughter was clearly expressing. I don't really understand why anyone thinks a firm "no thank you" would work when her daughter clearly expressing her discomfort wasn't.
Right. A firm but polite "No thank you" is way more toned down than what was already happening: a screaming, panicked child clinging onto to her mother. If the screaming and trying to get away from him didnt deter him, I dont think the no thank you would have either. Espeically as the mom had already said that. I think he escalated the situation and so she had to as well.
post #165 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
This is where we disagree. Speaking as a child who WAS molested by the nice but clueless old man next door, I work on the assumption that anyone who is touching me without my consent IS trying to hurt me. If Im wrong, Im wrong, Id rather hurt thier feelings than comprimise my own bodily integrity. Ditto for my kids. I also dont see where the "no thank you" stated firmly and politely is any stronger than the child screaming and yelling and clinging to her mom.


I'm so sorry that you dealt with sexual abuse as a child. It is such a horrible, destructive crime.

That said, I would like to gently point out that *most* children are never molested. Most children *will* have to deal with Great-Aunt Ida or That Lady from Church who wants to hug them, or pick them up, or give them a sticker. Which is where a firm, (but polite!) "No, thank you" comes in handy.

And unfortunately, for many of these clueless people, a crying, screaming child is just noise. They don't think at all of what the child is trying to express. That's where a parent's clear expression comes in handy. "She's quite upset, we're trying to get home as quickly as possible, please don't pick her up."
post #166 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marylizah View Post
I'm so sorry that you dealt with sexual abuse as a child. It is such a horrible, destructive crime.

That said, I would like to gently point out that *most* children are never molested. Most children *will* have to deal with Great-Aunt Ida or That Lady from Church who wants to hug them, or pick them up, or give them a sticker. Which is where a firm, (but polite!) "No, thank you" comes in handy.

And unfortunately, for many of these clueless people, a crying, screaming child is just noise. They don't think at all of what the child is trying to express. That's where a parent's clear expression comes in handy. "She's quite upset, we're trying to get home as quickly as possible, please don't pick her up."
The rates are one in ten boys and one in five girls are molested. Thats pretty high. And many believe that the rates are even higher as these rates are the ones that report. My only point is that, if a child is taught that they have to submit to unwanted touches, the likelyhood that, if someone does try it, they will submit to it go up. And the odds that they will tell you go down. I mean, tell what? Youve already tought them that you expect them to submit to what an adult wants even if it's not what they want (not you personally, speaking in general).

eta: I just reread and realized you DIDNT say they should have to give hugs if they dont want to. A polite but firm no thank you will probally work with aunt ida or the old lady at church. And of course that should be taught as the first line of defense. But It didnt work with this guy so I think that something else was warranted. JMO>
post #167 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
The rates are one in ten boys and one in five girls are molested. Thats pretty high. And many believe that the rates are even higher as these rates are the ones that report. My only point is that, if a child is taught that they have to submit to unwanted touches, the likelyhood that, if someone does try it, they will submit to it go up. And the odds that they will tell you go down. I mean, tell what? Youve already tought them that you expect them to submit to what an adult wants even if it's not what they want (not you personally, speaking in general).

eta: I just reread and realized you DIDNT say they should have to give hugs if they dont want to. A polite but firm no thank you will probally work with aunt ida or the old lady at church. And of course that should be taught as the first line of defense. But It didnt work with this guy so I think that something else was warranted. JMO>
Look, I'm really not trying to minimize the risk of molestation. But flip the stats, and 80 percent of kids are NOT molested (or 70 percent or whatever, depending on how underreported you think it is). That's a majority.


I am absolutely opposed to people touching children against their will (thank you, btw, for re-reading and noticing that).

I still maintain that the OP could have said "Please don't touch her, she's very upset, we're trying to leave as quickly as possible."

I think our different life experiences color the way we imagine this situation occurred, and how it should have been handled.
post #168 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
I don't think anyone is assuming he was a child molester, just pointing out that he could have had a purpose that was more nefarious than a clueless old man trying to comfort a little girl. And since the OP said she had red flags going off about him, I think it's reasonable that she reacted the way she did.
I am going to have to politely disagree and say yelling wasn’t the answer, children pick up on their parents moods and I don’t think yelling at someone would have helped settle the child or the situation instead it could intensify the situation and then things could have gotten out of control. You don’t know this person and what he is capable of and he may have resorted to verbally or physically abusing you or your DC in retaliation. I think you need to stay calm as it will help you keep a clear head and you will be able think of more and better ways to help your DC, when you’re angry all you can think about is what aggravating you.
post #169 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_ballet View Post
I am going to have to politely disagree and say yelling wasn’t the answer, children pick up on their parents moods and I don’t think yelling at someone would have helped settle the child or help the situation instead it would intensify the situation and then things could have gotten out of control. Also you don’t know what the other person is capable of and he may have resorted to verbally or physically abusing you in retaliation. I think you need to stay calm as it will help you keep a clear head and you will be able think of more ways to help your DC, when you’re angry all you can think about is what aggravating you.

Assuming that one wants their child to learn from the experience, and learn what to do the next time someone tries to take them somewhere they don't want to go - well, I want my kids kicking and screaming. I want them drawing as much attention to themselves and the other person as possible. I want them yelling at the top of their lungs "Get away from me, don't touch me, I don't know you!" etc. I don't particularly want them to react calmly - I want them to get away. Once someone bigger and stronger than you gets you alone, you're pretty much SOL. I don't want them being polite, because I don't think there's anything to be gained by politeness if you are afraid for your safety. I know that from experience.
post #170 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
Assuming that one wants their child to learn from the experience, and learn what to do the next time someone tries to take them somewhere they don't want to go - well, I want my kids kicking and screaming. I want them drawing as much attention to themselves and the other person as possible. I want them yelling at the top of their lungs "Get away from me, don't touch me, I don't know you!" etc. I don't particularly want them to react calmly - I want them to get away. Once someone bigger and stronger than you gets you alone, you're pretty much SOL. I don't want them being polite, because I don't think there's anything to be gained by politeness if you are afraid for your safety. I know that from experience.

I don't want my children to be taken either which why keep an close eye on my children in public and I don't leave them alone. It's my responsibility to keep my kids safe in public or at home.
post #171 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_ballet View Post
I don't want my children to be taken either which why keep an close eye on my children in public and I don't leave them alone. It's my responsibility to keep my kids safe in public or at home.
And your responsibility includes equipping them to be able to protect themselves if need be. You will not always be with them, even if you are right now.
post #172 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
And your responsibility includes equipping them to be able to protect themselves if need be. You will not always be with them, even if you are right now.
---

I was thinking the same thing.
they will be in school and on field trips where you will not be there... and it only takes a second for someone to take a child!!

scream as loud as you can if someone is trying to take you or do something to you.
post #173 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
And your responsibility includes equipping them to be able to protect themselves if need be. You will not always be with them, even if you are right now.
Correct. I certainly think it's my responsibility to watch my kids as much as possible. I'm not even overly concerned about my kids being abducted - I think an actual stranger abduction is very, very unlikely to happen. But my kids won't be little forever. Someday my little girl might be an adolescent or young adult getting cornered by a guy at a party, and I want her to feel free to kick him in the balls and scream if he's doing something she's uncomfortable with - no polite "no thank you" required. If one of my boys meets someone online and goes to meet them without my permission, only to find out that they aren't who they said they were, I want them to draw attention to the predator - no politeness necessary. With as many times as I have had someone do something sexually inappropriate with me from the time I was little to adulthood, I don't doubt that at some point one or all of my kids will need to be in a position to defend themselves - and I want them to do it loudly. I want them to turn their fear into a raucous protest, as opposed to being frozen by it. Now, I don't think that if the OP had said a firm, polite "No thank you" that she would be teaching her daughter complacency in the long term, but in that situation, it would never occur to me that that response would do any good. It's certainly never done any good in my life in a situation where someone was intruding on my personal space or doing something inappropriate. If the man had just been trying to coax the girl over for a (probably innocent) hug while she hid quietly behind mom? Sure, I would use no thank you in that situation. But someone trying to pull a screaming child away from me? No way in hell it would even occur to me to be polite.
post #174 of 181
eclipse, you make excellent points!

I really, really want my kids to feel okay with making a ruccus if someone's acting inappropriately, and not respecting their boundaries.

As you point out, we won't always be able to be with them in every situation. And the fact is -- even while they're little, for those of us who have more than 1, sometimes we can have our head turned (like the poster who turned around to find her FIL had snuck up to her baby in the shopping-cart).

It makes sense that we don't disable our kids' built-in fight-or-flight mechanism -- and I'm not saying that anyone here has advocated that, even the ones who are against the yelling, I think we all just see things differently.
post #175 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
correct. I certainly think it's my responsibility to watch my kids as much as possible. I'm not even overly concerned about my kids being abducted - i think an actual stranger abduction is very, very unlikely to happen. But my kids won't be little forever. Someday my little girl might be an adolescent or young adult getting cornered by a guy at a party, and i want her to feel free to kick him in the balls and scream if he's doing something she's uncomfortable with - no polite "no thank you" required. If one of my boys meets someone online and goes to meet them without my permission, only to find out that they aren't who they said they were, i want them to draw attention to the predator - no politeness necessary. With as many times as i have had someone do something sexually inappropriate with me from the time i was little to adulthood, i don't doubt that at some point one or all of my kids will need to be in a position to defend themselves - and i want them to do it loudly. I want them to turn their fear into a raucous protest, as opposed to being frozen by it. Now, i don't think that if the op had said a firm, polite "no thank you" that she would be teaching her daughter complacency in the long term, but in that situation, it would never occur to me that that response would do any good. It's certainly never done any good in my life in a situation where someone was intruding on my personal space or doing something inappropriate. If the man had just been trying to coax the girl over for a (probably innocent) hug while she hid quietly behind mom? Sure, i would use no thank you in that situation. But someone trying to pull a screaming child away from me? No way in hell it would even occur to me to be polite.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!
post #176 of 181
A child who screams may look to a passer-by like he or she is throwing a tantrum or squabbling with a parent or guardian. Teach your child to yell out specific words rather than just scream. Yelling out "help I don't know this person" "this is not my dad," or "this is not my mom." will get the attention of others.
post #177 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltic_ballet View Post
A child who screams may look to a passer-by like he or she is throwing a tantrum or squabbling with a parent or guardian. Teach your child to yell out specific words rather than just scream. Yelling out "help I don't know this person" "this is not my dad," or "this is not my mom." will get the attention of others.
Oh yes, I definitely do that. That's important. Just like yelling "Fire!" will get more attention than yelling "Rape!"
The OPs DD, though, is only 2.5 and might not yet have the verbal abilities to do that. My three year old couldn't handle "You're not my dad!" but he could handle "No!" and biting someone or pulling their hair (he likes to pull hair and he's good at it . I don't encourage it, but I'm not above using his "talents" for these purposes!)
post #178 of 181
Thread Starter 
Wow I was going to just add an update and noticed how many posts there were over the weekend, and all good points. What I was going to update was this:
My friend needed a ride home from work because with the cold weather her car would not start When I picked her up she wanted to stop by Walmart to get her son's prescription. I told her there was a Walgreens on the next corner but she said Walmart already had the script filled she just needed to pick it up. When we walked in (without kids by the way) the same man was there greeting people. I just tried to rush by him, I just felt so creeped out over everything and I thought about everything that happened. I told my friend about it while we were waiting in line and she said "Oh man I cannot believe you yelled at him." I guess she had the same mindset as some on MDC in thinking yelling was not the answer. I just shrugged it off and said "Well you were not there and it was a quick decision without a lot of thinking involved." I guess it boils down to different people would react differently. However I am of the mindset in that I don't say FOR SURE what I would do in a particular situation until I have actually experienced it myself. How do you know FOR SURE how you would react if you were in MY situation at the EXACT moment in time? You don't know, you THINK you know but you really don't. If someone were to have asked me what I would have done in that situation and I would not have experienced it, I MIGHT have said something like "Oh I would remain calm and say 'Please stop. She is upset and I need to leave.'" But I didn't react that way at all. I still feel badly for yelling at him and I yes, he does have a disability I have discovered, but it still does not give him the right to pry my already screaming daughter away from me without my permission. :
post #179 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marylizah View Post
Look, I'm really not trying to minimize the risk of molestation. But flip the stats, and 80 percent of kids are NOT molested (or 70 percent or whatever, depending on how underreported you think it is). That's a majority.
The fallacy here is that you're omitting the incidents where no molestation occured, but could have.

I wrote out a bunch of stories that happened to me and DH as kids (not molestation, but people who approached us with OBVIOUS bad intentions, both people we knew and also a couple of strangers) but decided to delete for brevity. But the overall point was just that DH and I are not part of those quoted statistics, but we absolutely needed the same ability to protect ourselves. If it were not for luck, we'd be among those statistics ourselves.

In addition to the classic child molesters (family members, teachers, neighbors and even strangers), people - especially girls and women - need to be able to protect themselves against peers (especially adolescent boys), dates and coworkers.

We're talking about the vast majority of people facing threats on some level. I've never been molested or raped, but in thinking about this, I was SHOCKED at the number of incidents that I could remember in my life where my bodily integrity was threatened in some way - and I had a very protected, sheltered life.

Also, 20% is a huge number, and waving it away because it's not 50% or more doesn't make any sense. I'd agree if we were talking about 0.02% or something, but 20% is huge. That's bigger odds than Russian Roulette.
post #180 of 181
I didn't read the entire thread but I just wanted to say stuff like that always happens at Walmart. We used to live in a very small town and Walmart was one of my few options.

One time, an older woman greeter said about my children (adopted from China) "I always wanted me one of them." I just shake my head and say "only at Walmart."

That said, Walmart doesn't treat those elderly greeters very well. So I try and give them a break.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › So I wigged out at the Walmart greeter today...