"Sorry if I don't want my grandchild to die" update post #29

[lindsayjean]

Edit update- so my mom called me and point blank asked me if I was planning a homebirth. First of all I'm like 6 weeks pregnant (LOL!). I told her I hadn't made any decisions but if I was low risk I was looking into it (I'm sorry, I just can't lie about it if asked point blank).

She FLIPPED. OUT. to put it mildly. Told me that homebirths were illegal (we're in Minnesota... pretty sure they are NOT), that they cost a lot of money (my insurance won't cover it and we're low income on medical assistance) and that if we went through with it than we obviously don't ever need help from her EVERY again (not sure what exactly she meant- she doesn't give us money but she does babysit for free when we need her to and buys my daughter a LOT of clothes and things), and that she is sorry, but she just doesn't want her grandbaby to die. UGH!!!! SERIOUSLY?! I knew she'd freak out... I hope she'll calm down. I sent her a long email about how I hadn't made a decision yet, but with low risk pregnancies it is a very good option and sent her some links to websites (one was the lamaze website) showing statistics and facts as to why homebirth is a safe option if you are low risk. etc etc. And how she needs to respect my decision and I'd never do anything that could harm my baby.

Anyone ever have to go through something like this? How did you handle it. The sucky this is... if I happen to have to transfer... I will NEVER. EVER. EVER. here the end of the "I told you so"s. So that kind of sucks.

My mom is a L&D nurse by the way.
_______
My mom knows me too well apparently.

My mom has been sending me info on all these midwives (hospital ones of course) and today she sent me info on the hospitals that do waterbirth and how she knows I'd like that if I stayed low risk. So I emailed her back saying that I was meeting with a midwife next week and I'll probably just have the doctors at the clinic/hospital down the street be my back up. Pretty sure it's very obvious by that that I want a homebirth. Oh well... at least she'll have lots of time to get used to the idea.... right?

Maybe I can educate a very anti-homebirth L&D nurse that homebirths aren't so evil after all since her daughter (Hopefully) has a great one.

Oh I hope she doesn't freak....

[dogmom327]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you! Mom freaking out would be really stressful but good for you for trying to educate her!

[lindsayjean]

ugh- thanks. I had decided not to tell her too. I'm sure she'll ask me... and I just CAN'T lie, I think lying would stress me out more than hiding it... bleh.

[dogmom327]

Time to set up some boundaries. She is being completely disrespectful to you as a person and as a parent. She's assuming you would put yourself and child in danger and that you are making a decision without researching and gathering the appropriate information. I hope for your sake she calms down but if not, I'd vote for reminding her that you are an adult, capable of making informed decisions (didn't she raise you to do that?) and that you won't be discussing this with her further, etc. You don't need that kind of negative energy.

ETA: It sounds like she's essentially threatening you (with what I'm not sure)...this would not fly in my world.

[laralee16]

My mom is still doing this, and I am 25 weeks. It finally has gotten to the point where I tune her out because I know what Im doing is best for me and my baby.

[barefootpoetry]

Wow. Someone has some SERIOUS issues. If she can't come to terms with the fact that you are an adult capable of making your own intelligent decisions, and if she seriously thinks you are dumb enough to deliberately put your child in danger....then I'd have no problem writing her off completely. Seriously. You don't need that kind of toxicity in your life.

Heh heh, I just read the other replies and I said basically the same thing dogmom said.

[MsBlack]

I'm pretty much with Dogmom and Barefoot on this.

You don't have to lie at all. But in order to have some peace as you go on in this pregnancy, and to help your mother learn that you really are an adult now, you do have to set some boundaries. This can be done with courtesy and respect, but must be firm.

For instance, you might say, when the topic arises again: "Mom, I know you love us and only speak of this because you care. We love you too. And we've decided not to talk with you about our birth plans anymore; it's a private decision between us that we don't want to share with people this time. If you would like to know more about birth options and safety, I'll be glad to send you more links."

If she tries to argue or 'go off' on you, just repeat, quietly and firmly: "Mom, I am really not open to this discussion. I'm sorry this is so hard for you, but I need you to let it go and respect our wish for privacy about our birth plans"

And so forth. You don't explain, or try to help her understand, or anything else. Any further attempts she makes to force a discussion/argument, you just keep repeating that this is not a topic you want to discuss with her. She is also an adult and will learn to live with this disagreement. As your mom, and your dh's MIL, she definitely needs to know the limits of her influence and her rights within your family. The only way she will begin to learn that is if YOU insist on it. You can be patient, nice, repsectful, no need to lie or be rude....but you do have to insist, and persist.

If she makes further threats to withdraw her presence and support, then I very strongly urge you to cut her off at the pass: "Well, we all would be sad to lose you, but if that is how you really feel, we will respect that. Our door will always be open to you." Period. Once she sees that she cannot use emotional blackmail to sway you, she will probably give it up. Oh, she might persist in passive-aggressive digs now and then--which you should ignore entirely!

My own mom never got entirely past her need to try to control me in just such ways--but once I learned say things like what I wrote above, it became MUCH easier to derail the ranting and pressuring before she could get well underway. In my case, there were times I hung up on my mom (sorry mom, I'm hanging up now), or left her presence (walked out of the room or even the event we were at). She never got past thinking that I was/am just horribly unsafe and carelessly rebellious, never quit the passive aggressive digs once she learned I'd not engage with her in outright argument--and I put more and more distance between us as years went by. But at least I stopped the tantrums with the inevitably awful 'hangover' afterward. And many parents do learn to accept their grown children's boundaries and general rights as adults, once their grown children insist that they do!

[ErinsJuneBug]

Oh good lord - I'm so sorry hun. Right now, you need some space. The e-mail has already been sent but honestly you are a big girl and dont need to prove yourself to anyone. I feel your pain, really i do. When she try's to talk to you again be firm and tell her that this is not a negotiation and that it isnt up for discussion one way or anyother. This is a decision you and DH are making and she can either support it or keep her mouth shut. period.

[katmann]

It's such a shame. I bet you could really use her support throughout the pregnancy in order to have an uncomplicated homebirth. But the other girls are right. You need to look out for you and your baby first, and if it means stopping discourse with your mom on this issue, then that's what will have to happen. I hope you have a really supportive partner!

[sanddollarmama]

Do you think if you give her some breathing space for a few weeks she might come around? or at least calm down a little.

People say a lot of things they dont necessarily mean in the heat of the moment. I'm SURE she wouldnt give up time with your other child over this and if she does SHE is the one loosing out.

I hope things get smoothed out and you feel better soon. I agree with erinsJunebug, you dont have to prove yourself to anyone.

[kJad29]

I agree with everything everyone has said. You are a grown woman with your own mind and have made this decision based on all of your research, not just on a whim. If she doesn't like it, then tough cookies. I had to set boundries with my mother as well (though not about homebirth) after I got married because she would try to pit me against my husband for my loyalty to her and my father! Riiight!!! Anyways, just stand your ground and let her know that it's YOUR BODY, YOUR BABY, and YOUR BIRTH. You have the final say over what happens and also you have put safety precautions in place in the case you need to transfer (which you will not). You need some space from the negativity. Maybe your midwife can hook you up with some other homebirth moms in your area so you can have a support? You also have lots of resources here on MDC. There are lots of homebirth stories and support from the good ladies here. All the best to you and please keep us posted!

[lindsayjean]

Thanks guys... I wrote her an AWESOME email if I do say so myself. With links to some articles she could read on safety of homebirth.
Here is her response that I got this morning... my mom always gets in trouble with the things she says and doesn't tend to think before talking... I think this good (for her anyway!):
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I actually am not against home births, only when the baby involved means so much to me. I have learned to get used to the water bithes, and do believe that labor is a natural process. and have even taken care of a home birth midwife - who delivered in the hospital with on ob - does that say anything? It really supprised me! Sorry, i really need to think before i talk to you! This happens with us alot and im sorry. Its just that over the years ive seen the "home birth gone bad" side too many times, and while iknow they arent that common, when they happen they are bad, and there is no legal recourse. Yes its not illegal, its just not liscensed, so any complications wont be covered by anyone! Its your choice, im sorry i said anything. YOu are smart, and your a great mom. again, im sorry, i love you and i want only the best for you and your family. mom

ive seen the business of being born, and i agree with most of it. it also is not 100% true all the time, just like anything else you read on the internet, or see on a movie. delivering babies is the most unknown thing there is. Just like you, im not stupid either. Delivering babies is my life, along with your father in law and grandpa.
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(fyi- midwives are licensed in our state... she told me they were illegal originally... pretty much she doesn't know I'm thinking...)

[MsBlack]

that letter from her is just AWESOME! I can already see that you will have an easier time with your mom than I ever did with mine--my mom never never ever admitted that something she said in anger might have been over the top. And the fact that your mom said those nice things about your mothering, well--she clearly can already see that you make some good decisions, have your head on straight. That will go a long way toward your getting through this with her, without too much fuss and angst, I'd think.

I think you guys will do ok. Keep up the good work!

[ellemnop]

My MIL was VERY anti-homebirth as well. She really didn't have much time to deal with it at all, since I decided at about 38 weeks that I wanted to have one (Mama's instincts just pushed me that way). I did pretty much the same thing that you did. I sat for a minute, processed WHY she was feeling that way and wrote her a lengthy, very polite, very informative email about homebirth making clear that I'm more than willing to talk it over with her and listening to her side as well as long as it was an informed argument.

I don't know that she ever really came around to it. I know that she had my SSIL call me on Christmas Day and beg me to not have a homebirth because her twins "would have died" if they wouldn't have had treatment right away.

I got a lot of resistance over the homebirth thing, and really all that I did was try to listen to people and make it seem like I really had put a lot of thought into what they were saying. I'm not very confrontational, and I didn't "Get into it" with a lot of people... just said "Ok I would think about it" and still did things my own way.

Anyway, this is ranty, but I wanted to say that I am thinking of you, and hope that you're well supported as you approach the time for your homebirth!

Take care,
El

[Poogles0213]

Originally Posted by lindsayjean

Its just that over the years ive seen the "home birth gone bad" side too many times, and while iknow they arent that common, when they happen they are bad, and there is no legal recourse.

I think this is a very important sentence. The fact is that sometimes (very rarely as long as you have a competent midwife not afraid to transfer for complications) babies will die at home from something that probably could've been averted at the hospital. Yes, very rare...but it happens. Since she is an L&D nurse, and sees such a vast volume of births, she sees it more than most people do...and all she can think of (from what I can tell) is "What if that rare one ends being my daughter and grandchild?" You can't really blame her for worrying. The "emotional blackmailing" (as someone called it earlier), however, is completely unaccaptable, and I'm glad to see she seems to realize that after cooling down. Perhaps if you used either a MW she knows, or if she could meet with your MW to see for herself that she is a competent practitioner? All the luck to you

[jrabbit]

Why does everyone think it's the end of the world if you transfer to the hospital during HB? It does *not* mean that HB failed or that anyone has the right to say "I told you so". What it means is that the HB worked the way it's supposed to work! The hospital is the back-up plan. There is absolutely no harm in a back-up plan = in fact, having such a plan just proves that you're thinking things through. If **anything** happens during a HB that indicates a need for medical intervention, you go get it!

There is no shame in that, and it just bothers me each time I hear a mom saying that is why they're afraid to "tell" anyone they're having a HB ... in fact, since you will have probably done most of the laboring at home, you're more likely to go to the hospital and push the baby right out without much intervention! Or, even if you need a CS, nothing happens in split seconds - they still have to get the OR ready whether you're there already or just got there.

--janis

p.s. a close friend just had a stalled labor after 2 days, due to posterior big baby, and she had to transfer to hospital. I'm sure she's disappointed, but sometimes you just gotta "do" something different!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Poogles0213

I think this is a very important sentence. The fact is that sometimes (very rarely as long as you have a competent midwife not afraid to transfer for complications) babies will die at home from something that probably could've been averted at the hospital. Yes, very rare...but it happens. Since she is an L&D nurse, and sees such a vast volume of births, she sees it more than most people do...and all she can think of (from what I can tell) is "What if that rare one ends being my daughter and grandchild?" You can't really blame her for worrying. The "emotional blackmailing" (as someone called it earlier), however, is completely unaccaptable, and I'm glad to see she seems to realize that after cooling down. Perhaps if you used either a MW she knows, or if she could meet with your MW to see for herself that she is a competent practitioner? All the luck to you

BUT.... I bet she's also overlooking the babies and moms who are harmed or killed BECAUSE they're in the hospital.

-Angela

[Jessie Mae]

I feel like I would be in the same position with my Mom if I had not been present at a friend's home birth 4 years ago. When I was preparing for that experience, I talked to my mother about it and as I learned, so did she. Now that I am expecting my first child in June and planning a homebirth, she is supportive. She still has a lot of questions, but that is healthy. When I got married, my Mom was freaking out about some of the non-traditional things we were planning. When this happened, I discovered that giving her a project which required her "expertise" helped. Sometimes Moms need to feel like we still need them, so they pick the most obvious thing to "fix".....like my no priest, no meat wedding and your homebirth. I am not saying to give her arbitrary busywork, but to find something that you really do need her for, and then bring her in. I am glad that your mother came around. Sounds like you are back on track.

[jrabbit]

Originally Posted by lindsayjean

Its just that over the years ive seen the "home birth gone bad" side too many times, and while iknow they arent that common, when they happen they are bad, and there is no legal recourse. Yes its not illegal, its just not liscensed, so any complications wont be covered by anyone!

Another peeve of mine. Why is everyone so concerned with blaming "someone else" if something "bad" happens. Legal recourse should not be the motivator of our decisions. Sometimes we just have to be all grown-up about stuff and accept "bad" things for what they are. I know there are things that are bad enough that you want to blame someone else for them, but we shouldn't make all our decisions based on "maybe".

That being said, I wouldn't put my trust into an inexperienced MW - and believe me, we researched every aspect of our MW, and she's very very up front about her transfer rate and reasons and everything. Licensing doesn't automatically mean they do or don't have enough training to be qualified, though!

--janis

[MsBlack]

jrabbit--

this is a really really good point, I think--and one that the OP needs to bring up, maybe, to her mom. Another and *quite* valid way to look at transport is this: not that an L&D nurse sees 'homebirth gone bad' or 'the worst cases of poor hb care' or anything of the sort! They see mothers and babies who were APPROPRIATELY transferred to the hospital because it turned out they NEEDED MED CARE. They see mothers and babies who, up until a certain point of labor, gave every indicator of being fine candidates for normal homebirth--but things changed in labor and so, the mw and family chose wisely to seek needed med care.

So that is homebirth care working just the way it is supposed to. Because it is not that homebirthers or hb mws believe that ALL births can/should happen at home! It is that we know that when a woman is reasonably healthy and taking responsibility for self care and all choices, she has the greatest possible chances of having a normal, safe delivery at home....and we also know that there are NO GUARANTEES--med care might be needed, and we are ready to accept that possibility if it arises. We also know--probably far more acutely and specifically than your average hosp. birther--that there could be death/injury EVEN IF med care is sought in a timely way.