Nasty Burn on Hand--Tetanus Pressure

[AnalogWife]

Last week DS got his hand caught underneath the treadmill as it was running and it gave him 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his hand and pinky. I took him to the ER, told them we stopped vaxing at 2 months (at the two-month visit had the HIB and one other shot, but I'm not sure which...) when they asked if his shots were "up to date." I talked to a few doctors, they said if it's kept wrapped and clean then I could go home and study before I decided again on whether we wanted the DTaP.

I came home and read these boards and was reinforced in my belief that I didn't want to give DS this shot. The next day visited a hand specialist and they said we didn't need to keep it wrapped, gave him bacitracin and said to come back in 2 weeks. Vaxes were never discussed. It has scabbed over and is healing faster than I would have imagined. It's still nasty, but not nearly as raw and fleshy as it was.

Today DS had his 18-month well baby appt, 8 days after the injury. His pedi was a little alarmed by the depth of the wound and pushed the tetanus shot on us. I said no, he pushed it again, using "death" a couple times, and I said that I'd read that a shot wouldn't even affect this injury, that it took a while to kick in. He had a response to this, but I was a bit nerved-up about having the conversation that I don't remember how he responded. I asked if he could get just a Tetanus and not a DTaP, he said no (I don't think he would have said that it was a DTaP had I not mentioned it.) I said NO again, and then he offered the flu shot. Uh, NO.

But I took another look here, and there's a lot of talk about bloody wounds and how they're not breeding grounds for tetanus. DS's wound was a burn, it never really bled. It has scabbed over, but I"m not sure what that means in terms of tetanus. I'm asking for my nerves to be soothed again. I've read Mendohlson and some other reports about tetanus not being a childhood concern, but I just want to hear it again, I guess, for this certain case: third degree treadmill burn. TIA

[Sileree]

Was there a lot of dead tissue? If there wasn't, or if it was cleaned up well and the dead tissue removed then I would not worry. It would be exposed to the air that way. Kids generally have good circulation. And yes, a tetanus shot would have done no good except maybe preventing a case in the future.

[lirpasirhc]

i'm so sorry for your LO. burns are no fun.

remember that even if your LO was the rare, rare child to get tetanus, tetanus can be treated w/ rest and, in more rare cases, IV fluids or assistance breathing. you are right that the T potion of the DTaP won't have time to kick in before the incubation period ends. if tetanus was really a concern, i think they would have offered you the TIG. since the ped offered the flu vax, it sounds like he was just using this scare as an opportunity to get you to accept any vaxes.

check out post #6. http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...hlight=tetanus

"Keep in mind that the tetanus vaccine became available for widespread civilian use in the late 1940's. Thus tetanus mortality had declined from 205 deaths per 100,000 wounds in the American Civil War (1860) to about .4 deaths per 100,000 population in 1947 at the beginning of widespread civilian use of the vaccine. This means that sanitation, nutrition, year around nutritional improvements, general hygiene, and wound hygiene had reduced the mortality and incidence of tetanus by as much as 99.8 percent before the widespread use of tetanus vaccine." Hilary Butler 89wds

From 1992 through 2000 (9 years), 15 cases of tetanus in children <15 years of age were reported from 11 states. Two cases were in neonates <10 days of age;the other 13 cases were in children who ranged in age from 3to 14 years. The median length of hospitalization was 28 days; 8 children required mechanical ventilation. There were no deaths. (I don't have info on their state of health or wound care).

[Marnica]

That DR. was definatly trying to scare you. I wouldn't worry about it as the PP's have said. The chances are so slim that he would get tetnus from a burn. Tetnus is usually caused by DEEP puncture wounds that get no oxegen.
IMO I would find a new doctor. Shame on him for scaring you!

[AnalogWife]

Thank you everyone, that was just what I needed. I'm heavily considering going to another doctor, mainly because this was hardly the first bit if vax tension we've experienced. I just wish there were more holistic medical providers in this area.

All in all, I feel better. Thank you much.

[Gitti]

Poor baby. That was a bad experience. But he will heal and even forget about it soon.

There is no danger of tetanus even though there was no blood.
Tetanus spores can only mature and produce toxins in an oxygen freeenvironment. The air is full of oxygen as is blood.

That doctor is not very nice. He had no business undermining you at a time like this. And then to try and sell you the flu shot...Grrrrr...: Nasty guy!

A wound that is conducive to tetanus has to be a deep puncture wound, a severe crush wound, or a severe burn with lots of dead tissue that can't be cleaned away. At that time they would offer you the TIG blood vaccine.

imo any time a doctor offers a simple tetanus vaccine, you can be sure it is not necessary.

[AnalogWife]

Thanks again. :

Why IS it that they push this so hard? When we were checking into the ER we were asked by no less than 4 people what his shot status was, and some of them had their faces drop when I told them. That's what made me nervous. They even went as far as to order up a DTaP shot (this is something I overheard) but the MD's who saw him (one was in residency) didn't push it at all.

When I first struggled with telling the pedi "no" on vaxes, he pushed back and after I finally said NO he fell silent and hung his head low like I was making this very grave mistake, as though I was knowingly jeopardizing my precious son.

Is he evil? Misinformed? Does he get big $$ for selling shots? I don't get it. How can he be SO pro-vax after all I've read about them? I originally did ask for a delayed schedule and he was fine with that, but after I said "no" to them all, he just seems so concerned and awkward about it.

[kangaroomum25]

The vaccine doesn't even start to work by the time tetanus would show up! So now on top of your body trying to heal a wound it's got to deal with the vaccine too. :

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/in.../Content/about

How long do immunisations take to work?
In general, the normal immune response takes approximately two weeks to work. This means protection from an infection will not occur immediately after immunisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus

The incubation period of tetanus ranges from 3 to 21 days, with an average onset of clinical presentation of symptoms in 8 days

The booster cannot prevent a potentially fatal case of tetanus from the current wound, however, as it can take up to two weeks for tetanus antibodies to form.

[lirpasirhc]

Originally Posted by AnalogWife

Thanks again. :

Why IS it that they push this so hard? When we were checking into the ER we were asked by no less than 4 people what his shot status was, and some of them had their faces drop when I told them. That's what made me nervous. They even went as far as to order up a DTaP shot (this is something I overheard) but the MD's who saw him (one was in residency) didn't push it at all.

When I first struggled with telling the pedi "no" on vaxes, he pushed back and after I finally said NO he fell silent and hung his head low like I was making this very grave mistake, as though I was knowingly jeopardizing my precious son.

Is he evil? Misinformed? Does he get big $$ for selling shots? I don't get it. How can he be SO pro-vax after all I've read about them? I originally did ask for a delayed schedule and he was fine with that, but after I said "no" to them all, he just seems so concerned and awkward about it.

i think docs are misinformed in med school - they just learn that VADs are dangerous and preventable by vax.

also, have you read some of the CDC/AMA/AAP continuing ed slide shows? they advise using opportunities like this to get parents to accept a vax. they say that once the parent compromises on one vax, it will be easier for the dr to get the parent to accept other vaxes.

ETA: vax is also so deeply entrenched in our culture. remember elementary school history? a lot of it focuses on how ppl used to die, but now we have vaxes to save us. it's hard for anyone to go against that.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by AnalogWife

Is he evil? Misinformed? Does he get big $$ for selling shots? I don't get it. How can he be SO pro-vax after all I've read about them?

No he is not evil. He is following medical standards to which he is bound.

Those standards are set up by "Big Pharm". aka - big pHARMa

They have more influence in our government than any other lobbyist firms. We are being totally control by them and doctors are no different. Doctors are not even allowed to speak against vaccines. They must reinforce the good of vaccines. When this is a part of your daily job, you better start to believe it or you won't be able to sleep at night. That is why most doctors even sacrifice their own kids to this "medical religion".

Who runs pharmaceutical lobby firms? X-senators, congressmen or people who had lot of influence in their previous position. They then become employees of the world pharmaceutical conglomerate. And they do manipulate our laws, regulations, and much more...

For instance, Kissinger set up a huge lobbying firm after he "retired" from public service. Those lobbying firms have more power than the people of the US or the world. We have no lobbying firm working for our behalf. Our gov. reps are supposed to do that. How effective are they when the whole time in office they are working behind the scenes to get lucrative jobs after retirement with companies from which they are supposed to protect us?

That is why we need to make our own decisions and look out for ourselves. There is no one else who will if we don't.

[AnalogWife]

Thank you, Gitti. I've read your responses in other threads, and you've enlightened issues to some other questions I've had, but this was was particularly groundbreaking. THANK YOU THANK YOU.

I am growing more and more fearful of the "medical religion" as I think they are drilling into my 18 month old's head. Manytimes we will have Dr. Phil or the news on as we make (and eat ) dinner, and DS will be minding his own business...until a pharmaceutical commercial comes on, and at that point he'll rubberneck to watch all 30 seconds of the spot. At first I thought he just liked Antonio Bandaras as the Nasonex bee, but as time went on, I started noticing more and more that a lot of these drug commercials use animation (pipe people, mucus guy, moving skeletons, others I can't recall at the moment) and started thinking that, dang, this was Joe Camel all over again...but worse, because he would fling his head around to watch other pharm commercials that had no animation at all. My DH is convinced there is subliminal messaging hooking children into believing pharmaceuticals are good, no matter what may come in the future. Your post points out how dangerous this industry is. I'm so glad to have started to research this before it was too late.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by AnalogWife

My DH is convinced there is subliminal messaging hooking children into believing pharmaceuticals are good, no matter what may come in the future. Your post points out how dangerous this industry is. I'm so glad to have started to research this before it was too late.

Who knows? And I would not even be shocked.


:

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by AnalogWife

DS will be minding his own business...until a pharmaceutical commercial comes on, and at that point he'll rubberneck to watch all 30 seconds of the spot. At first I thought he just liked Antonio Bandaras as the Nasonex bee, but as time went on, I started noticing more and more that a lot of these drug commercials use animation (pipe people, mucus guy, moving skeletons, others I can't recall at the moment) and started thinking that, dang, this was Joe Camel all over again...but worse, because he would fling his head around to watch other pharm commercials that had no animation at all. My DH is convinced there is subliminal messaging hooking children into believing pharmaceuticals are good, no matter what may come in the future. Your post points out how dangerous this industry is. I'm so glad to have started to research this before it was too late.

Bold.underline mine.

THis is an astute observation. I never thought of it that way - that pharmaceutical commercials attract children. Definitely something to think about....