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hypothetical question - car vs. airplane lap baby - Page 3

post #41 of 72
While airline travel *is* safer in general than car seat travel, I think the dangers for a lap baby are hugely increased. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer
post #42 of 72
I would just stay home if I couldn't buy a seat for all my kids. I have been in horrible turbulence with DD as a lap baby and pigs would fly before I would do that again. No charity work is worth my child's safety.

What charity work do you do that takes you across the country? Sounds interesting. :
post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by katheek77 View Post
If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer
That is the best point I've read on this thread.

My guy was 17 months and probably in the 25 lb range, and we did lap baby from Seattle to San Diego, and I would never ever EVER do it again! Do you know how EXHAUSTING it is to hold a heavy kid for an entire flight?

Hubby couldn't help b/c he has a belly and no lap, so there was nowhere for DS to be on him while sitting on the airplane. So it was all on me. My arms were shaking after an hour, and they were sore for almost 2 days after, even though I was VERY used to holding him all the time. Even when he nursed and fell asleep it was difficult, b/c my legs are short and to give my arms a break and keep him on my lap I had to have my feet up on tiptoe.

NOT fun.

Man, you don't have any fun airlines for your flight, do you? None that offer credit back at no charge if the price goes down at all. Good luck with your decision!
post #44 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katheek77 View Post
While airline travel *is* safer in general than car seat travel, I think the dangers for a lap baby are hugely increased. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer
It totally depends on where prices are. With 4 of us every little bit makes a difference. There *is* a price break at which it would mean driving rather than a 4th ticket if it came down to it.

My question is whether the driving would actually be more risky.

-Angela
post #45 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post
I would just stay home if I couldn't buy a seat for all my kids. I have been in horrible turbulence with DD as a lap baby and pigs would fly before I would do that again. No charity work is worth my child's safety.

What charity work do you do that takes you across the country? Sounds interesting. :
Yeah, but this is a big deal for me. It's "volunteer" in that I don't get paid, but it's also a big social outlet for me and friends I've had for years.

Not exactly what I'd call "charity" work, but I work with

www.odysseyofthemind.org Great program.

-Angela
post #46 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkybean View Post
That is the best point I've read on this thread.

My guy was 17 months and probably in the 25 lb range, and we did lap baby from Seattle to San Diego, and I would never ever EVER do it again! Do you know how EXHAUSTING it is to hold a heavy kid for an entire flight?

Hubby couldn't help b/c he has a belly and no lap, so there was nowhere for DS to be on him while sitting on the airplane. So it was all on me. My arms were shaking after an hour, and they were sore for almost 2 days after, even though I was VERY used to holding him all the time. Even when he nursed and fell asleep it was difficult, b/c my legs are short and to give my arms a break and keep him on my lap I had to have my feet up on tiptoe.

NOT fun.

Man, you don't have any fun airlines for your flight, do you? None that offer credit back at no charge if the price goes down at all. Good luck with your decision!
Yeah, that is a factor. Though dh would be there and is an angel about such things and would happily hold ds the whole time if I needed him to...

I don't relish doing a lap child, but just weighing the options.

-Angela
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
It totally depends on where prices are. With 4 of us every little bit makes a difference. There *is* a price break at which it would mean driving rather than a 4th ticket if it came down to it.

My question is whether the driving would actually be more risky.

-Angela
Honestly, I'd go into it as a "Do I drive or do I fly?" and assume you will be buying 4 tickets.

I mean, if the airline personnel are lobbying for car seats, I'm going to guess there is a reason for it (namely, dangerous turbulence, and what not).

If it were something like a funeral, and you didn't have time to drive there, and didn't have the money, then, I understand the whole lap child thing. But, in a case where I have months to plan ahead, and a viable alternative(s) - in this case, saving the extra money or driving - I guess I just wouldn't be comfortable having an lap infant, especially for a social outlet event for me.
post #48 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katheek77 View Post
Honestly, I'd go into it as a "Do I drive or do I fly?" and assume you will be buying 4 tickets.

I mean, if the airline personnel are lobbying for car seats, I'm going to guess there is a reason for it (namely, dangerous turbulence, and what not).

If it were something like a funeral, and you didn't have time to drive there, and didn't have the money, then, I understand the whole lap child thing. But, in a case where I have months to plan ahead, and a viable alternative(s) - in this case, saving the extra money or driving - I guess I just wouldn't be comfortable having an lap infant, especially for a social outlet event for me.
Right- and I may decide ahead of time- hence my questions as to if safety is a factor. If it's *safer* to fly even with a lap-baby, then that will be part of the pro-flying instead of driving side. Make sense?

I know, without a doubt, that flying with baby in a carseat is safer than NOT in a carseat.

I also know that driving is MORE dangerous than flying.

So the question is, is driving MORE dangerous than flying with a lap baby.... and I don't know those stats.

I mean, if I decided I couldn't afford 4 tickets and would therefore drive because it's not safe to fly with a lap baby, perhaps that's not an honest evaluation if driving is still more risky than flying with a lap baby- make sense?

And it's not just a "social outlet event for me" truly. That's a big bonus, but in many ways this is basically an extended family, a commitment we've made, AND the only vacations we take

-Angela
post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Statistically, I realize that flying with a seat for everyone is safest. Statistically, NEXT safest would be flying with a lap baby. Then driving (with everyone properly restrained of course) would be the least safe.

[...]

JUST safety-wise- which would you choose?
It seems like you've already answered your own question. If safety is the only consideration, why would you choose something other than the safest choice? Maybe I don't understand what this post is asking for.
post #50 of 72
I'm sure you will make the right decision, I know these economic times are rough
Here is something I remember you saying in the past, when I was researching this same subject, that totally made sense to me about the dangers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
There IS a hugely *increased* danger. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

But they won't require it because they are concerned that the increased cost would encourage people to drive instead.

-Angela
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=17
post #51 of 72
I've done lap baby, but I'm pretty lax about car seats -- I"ve used Century even if I could have scrounged up the money for Britax. A seat advocate like yourself, I'm surprised you'd even consider this question. I think you once even recommended me to not do the lap baby thing in an airplane, citing terrible injury risks!

but yeah, personally I've carried a baby on my lap.
post #52 of 72
lap baby.

There's no way I'd drive that long with 2 kids in the car. Our 7 hr drive to my Mom's place with a 3 yr old and 3 month old was a 10 hr ordeal. It SUCKED! But then our 3 yr old is NOT good in the car (never has been) She wouldn't nap because she was too excited to see Grandma and our little one was great until an hour from my Mom's place at which point she had had ENOUGH and cried. We stopped twice to change and feed but she wasn't hungry anymore and didn't need a new diaper. Eventually she cried for 20 mins and wore herself out. I was a HORRIBLE driver for those 20 minutes. We were all crying and stressed. Seriously... it was horrendous. I would definately take a flight with a child in my arms (it's got to be a reasonably short flight) over an 18 hr car trip (because that could easily be 24 hrs in a car plus stops... add a hotel room in there for a night because you had better be sleeping if you want to be safe) and is it really going to be a lot cheaper (hmmm, actually yes, it probably would be)

I just wouldn't do the long drive. (we LOVE taking the train but for sure it doesn't go everywhere...)
post #53 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillian View Post
It seems like you've already answered your own question. If safety is the only consideration, why would you choose something other than the safest choice? Maybe I don't understand what this post is asking for.
The question is what IS the safest choice? I know that flying is safer than driving *in general* I don't know -statistically- if it's still safer for the lap baby to be on a plane rather than in a car....

-Angela
post #54 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaffNowCryLater View Post
I'm sure you will make the right decision, I know these economic times are rough
Here is something I remember you saying in the past, when I was researching this same subject, that totally made sense to me about the dangers.



http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=17
Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of flying with a carseat. Which is why my first gut instinct was that if we couldn't afford 4 plane tickets, just to drive instead.

Then I second guessed my own risk analysis. I truly don't know which of the choices is safer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonee View Post
A seat advocate like yourself, I'm surprised you'd even consider this question.
Exactly. Which is why my first reaction was -well, if we can't afford 4 tickets, we'll just drive.

Then I stopped and thought some more.

Maybe driving is a MORE risky choice...

I just don't know....

-Angela
post #55 of 72
If someone else asked this question, your advice would be not to go, to not compromise the child's security for any needs. I used to do that, when I lived in an ivory tower and had an opinion about everything as long as it hadn't affected me

For your integrity, you should eat beans and rice for two weeks and then buy the extra ticket, or drive. For peace of mind and convenience, you should probably do the lap baby thing, but then promise you'll be more understanding toward people here with similar dilemmas
post #56 of 72
duplicate
post #57 of 72
Obviously flying is safer for 3 out of 4 family members. The question is, is driving safer for that 1 family member. Can you compromise the safety of 3 family members for 1 family member, or compromise the safety of 1 family member for the other 3. Tough questions..there is no right answer.

I think this is just something where you have to go with your "gut". My instinct is that flying with the lap baby is safer (even for the baby) than driving. Driving is going to put everyone at a slight risk for the 30 hours of driving. Flying is only going to put the baby at a slight risk for a much shorter period of time. I also tend to think that car accidents are more likely to occur than "really, bad, turbulance..the kinds that would be dangerous to the baby"..but I don't know the statistics on that.

Does turbulance have anything to do with weather? Could you consult a farmer's almanac for that week and see if they are predicting "rain/wind or sunny/calm weather" the farmer's almanac isn't a great predictor, but I tend to think it is as good as anything else. LOL

Of course, you have several months...so you could always try your darndest to save up the $$ for an extra seat....get a credit card with frequent flyer miles and then charge all your groceries/gas/etc on it each month (and pay off in full each month). You might earn enough for an extra seat....or just try to sell stuff/earn extra money in the next few months.

Really...everything is a risk. Just going is a risk/benefit analysis. You obviously feel that the benefit outweights the risk, so you need to just accept that there is some risk involved in your decision to go, accept that risk, choose the method of transportation which fits your needs (monetary needs/length of travel time, etc) best and then move on.
post #58 of 72
I think either choice (driving or flying w/ lap baby) would be perfectly safe, statistically speaking, but I think flying with a lap baby would absolutely be safer, no question.

Car crashes are the #1 killer of kids, but even still the chance of having your child die in a car crash is incredibly small.

I personally HATE flying, so I'm not sure what I would choose. But if statistical safety is your #1 concern, I definitely think flying is the way to go.

Lex
post #59 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonee View Post
If someone else asked this question, your advice would be not to go, to not compromise the child's security for any needs. I used to do that, when I lived in an ivory tower and had an opinion about everything as long as it hadn't affected me

For your integrity, you should eat beans and rice for two weeks and then buy the extra ticket, or drive. For peace of mind and convenience, you should probably do the lap baby thing, but then promise you'll be more understanding toward people here with similar dilemmas
Actually, I would have advised driving. Not not going. I'm just second guessing my own advice.

-Angela
post #60 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliabedelia View Post
Obviously flying is safer for 3 out of 4 family members. The question is, is driving safer for that 1 family member. Can you compromise the safety of 3 family members for 1 family member, or compromise the safety of 1 family member for the other 3. Tough questions..there is no right answer.
Right- what I'm really asking I guess is which IS safer for the baby... and I don't know the answer or how to find it.


Quote:
I think this is just something where you have to go with your "gut". My instinct is that flying with the lap baby is safer (even for the baby) than driving. Driving is going to put everyone at a slight risk for the 30 hours of driving. Flying is only going to put the baby at a slight risk for a much shorter period of time. I also tend to think that car accidents are more likely to occur than "really, bad, turbulance..the kinds that would be dangerous to the baby"..but I don't know the statistics on that.

Does turbulance have anything to do with weather? Could you consult a farmer's almanac for that week and see if they are predicting "rain/wind or sunny/calm weather" the farmer's almanac isn't a great predictor, but I tend to think it is as good as anything else. LOL

Of course, you have several months...so you could always try your darndest to save up the $$ for an extra seat....get a credit card with frequent flyer miles and then charge all your groceries/gas/etc on it each month (and pay off in full each month). You might earn enough for an extra seat....or just try to sell stuff/earn extra money in the next few months.

Really...everything is a risk. Just going is a risk/benefit analysis. You obviously feel that the benefit outweights the risk, so you need to just accept that there is some risk involved in your decision to go, accept that risk, choose the method of transportation which fits your needs (monetary needs/length of travel time, etc) best and then move on.
Which is probably what will end up happening in the end.... but I'm still months out, so in the info gathering stage

-Angela
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