or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › Spirituality › Religious Studies › Easy Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Easy Question for Jehovah's Witnesses - Page 2

post #21 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrodjm View Post
We believe in the holy spirit, but not as a person/personage. We believe that it is the active force that God uses to create, protect, strengthen, etc. For example, if I am a facing a difficult times I may pray to God to provide his holy spirit to keep me calm/strong/safe, whatever. Hope that answers the question.
Yes, that make sense. So basically, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in one supreme God (Jehovah), Jesus as His Son, but don't believe that Jesus is God, just His Son, although they do believe He is the Savior, and then the Holy Spirit is something that comes out of God, but is not God? Correct me if I'm wrong.
post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
The basics of Christianity has been around since we were first called Christians in the New testament.

Christians believe God, Jesus, & The Holy spirit are all GOD. The trinity concept (which is in the Bible, though the word trinity isn't) is a difficult one to grasp, but yet, the Bible clearly teaches this concept.
The trinity concept was highly debated during the first couple centuries and not every Christian group adapted this concept. Just because the roman catholic church did (among others), does not mean, they are right, it just means, they have a different view point, which was not firmly established before the 4th century.

There are so many differences between the different Christian Denominations and yet, they all share some basic principles. As a somewhat outsider, I do not even find the differences between Jewish, Muslim and Christians to be so significant, compared to other religious groups (Hindu, Pagan, Wicca, Shinto to name a few). All three believe in (parts) of the bible, except the role of Jesus is viewed differently. How these believes are lived and adapted culturally is sometimes more different from one Christian denomination to another than from one religion to another. Don't all three religions even share the same God?
post #23 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
So the Bible is some esoteric mumble-jumble up for interpretation when it comes to who Jesus is?

Is Jesus God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostAPpropriate View Post
<snip>
Anyone who claims that the bible crystal clear is full of hot air. If it were so we wouldnt have denominations or apologetics or hundreds of conflicting interpretations of various scripture.

<snip>
Just reading through the thread and found the juxtapositio of these two statements to stand out.

I agree with the latter statment, the bible is not the world's most clear book. Though some would say (argue, rather) otherwise. I also agree that the lack of consensus on the "clarity" and amount of fights amongst who is and who is not a christian is arguable evidence to say that no one really knows.

But on the JW as Christian question. I reckon they are. Not as most Christians would define it, but the ol JC holds a big place in their teachings, and they would state they follow his teachings, so that tears it. IMO a definition of a Christian means there's a following of Jesus' teachings, belief in the resurrection that clinch it. The divinity question can be a bit of a gray area, from what I've seen. Though most Christian churches say Jesus is God, sometimes delving into an individual's perception of it may come something more akin to not Jesus being not exactly a god.
post #24 of 93
Forgive me, for I am not a Christian (anymore) so my knowledge of the Bible is not as well developed as some here, but doesn't the Bible actually refer to the trinity? Father, Son, Holy Spirit as one? Isn't the word Elohim used to refer to more than one, "us," meaning more than two, since the dual is not used, but the plural? even in the New Testament?
post #25 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freud View Post
Forgive me, for I am not a Christian (anymore) so my knowledge of the Bible is not as well developed as some here, but doesn't the Bible actually refer to the trinity? Father, Son, Holy Spirit as one? Isn't the word Elohim used to refer to more than one, "us," meaning more than two, since the dual is not used, but the plural? even in the New Testament?
Not exactly in so many words. Elohim is kind of a "Royal We" used by Jews who OBVIOUSLY don't believe in any kind of trinity, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit get mentioned separately in the NT. Jesus says "I and the Father are One" in the gospel of John (?) and the references to the Holy Spirit are kind of ambiguous as to his/ her/ its nature. The trinity wasn't official until the Nicene council.
post #26 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
Not exactly in so many words. Elohim is kind of a "Royal We" used by Jews who OBVIOUSLY don't believe in any kind of trinity, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit get mentioned separately in the NT. Jesus says "I and the Father are One" in the gospel of John (?) and the references to the Holy Spirit are kind of ambiguous as to his/ her/ its nature. The trinity wasn't official until the Nicene council.
:
post #27 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelpie545 View Post
Yes, that make sense. So basically, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in one supreme God (Jehovah), Jesus as His Son, but don't believe that Jesus is God, just His Son, although they do believe He is the Savior, and then the Holy Spirit is something that comes out of God, but is not God? Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct.

post #28 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelpie545 View Post
Yes, that make sense. So basically, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in one supreme God (Jehovah), Jesus as His Son, but don't believe that Jesus is God, just His Son, although they do believe He is the Savior, and then the Holy Spirit is something that comes out of God, but is not God? Correct me if I'm wrong.
True, and also, they pray in Jesus name and believe that he was the first creation of God, and everything else was created through Jesus. Jesus plays a very prominent role in the religion, he is just not part of a trinity. I was raised believing all this, and never believed in the trinity, and I am quite sure I was a Christian. To me, it must go by self identification. What else can it go by? Otherwise we could just as easily say that anyone who believes in the trinity is not Christian. It seems a little ridiculous to make up certain standards for who is allowed to call themselves Christian. It would also not matter at all to people who really are not Christian whether a religion believes in the Jesus who is part of a trinity or the Jesus who is God's son, but also the Lord and Savior.
post #29 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
Not exactly in so many words. Elohim is kind of a "Royal We" used by Jews who OBVIOUSLY don't believe in any kind of trinity, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit get mentioned separately in the NT. Jesus says "I and the Father are One" in the gospel of John (?) and the references to the Holy Spirit are kind of ambiguous as to his/ her/ its nature. The trinity wasn't official until the Nicene council.
Thanks for clarifying. Language is so complicated!
post #30 of 93
Quote:
Anyone who claims that the bible crystal clear is full of hot air. If it were so we wouldn't have denominations or apologetics or hundreds of conflicting interpretations of various scripture
That's the thing though. Denominations don't disagree on the essentials of Christian faith (excluding groups such as oneness Pentecostals (who deny the Trinity & are very legalistic)...who God is, how we are saved, etc. We may disagree on non-essentials, such as baptism & the work of the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues, gifts), infant baptism vs adult, sprinkling vs full immersion baptism, KJV only vs other versions, worship style (music, no music) & service style (liturgical, contemporary)....the list of non essentials goes on & on.

The Bible is very clear though who God is, Jesus is, & The Holy spirit. We do not have to be Greek scholars to read what the Bible says our God is. There are very plain scriptures that claim that Jesus, & the Holy spirit are indeed God! Yea, it's a hard concept that we may not understand....but keep in mind, we are finite creatures. We won't be able to understand all the Bible has to say, but we can, understand the very important over-riding theme in His word that we can be saved, by His grace, NOT by works, lest we should boast (paraphrasing).

If one is truly seeking God's truth, & wants a relationship with the almighty, God will never turn us away, no matter what we believe. He will lead us to search HIM. Not religion, Not groups, Not man's teaching.

I do not rely on ANY written material, book, or magazine to teach me. I read the Bible alone. No, I will not get twisted teachings from doing so. I do not rely on some one's else's "light" that they published to educate me. God has already given us His light.

I suggest taking it one step at a time. First investigate the Bible(outside of your particular group's Bible & study guide) & see what it says about Jesus. See if the other believers have a reason why we believe that Jesus IS GOD. If I'm not mistaken, back when the JW's first established, Russell commanded his followers to read his materials alongside the Bible, otherwise, you will go into darkness.

If you can't take that step alone...ask your self why. I'm pretty sure you know where I'm getting at here...if people are controlling your thought process....well....ask if you think that's even healthy.

This thread is about if Jesus is God. I think it has been pretty well stated that no, JW's don't believe He is.

It is a big difference than the real meaning of Christianity that's been around for centuries. Arianism (the belief that Jesus was not God) surfaced a few centuries after Christ's death by ONE man alone. Very few Christian churches teach this doctrine, but, JW's do.

Anyway, like I said. I think the question has been answered. Nope. Jesus isn't God to JW's. He was a God, but not the almighty God.
post #31 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post

This thread is about if Jesus is God. I think it has been pretty well stated that no, JW's don't believe He is.
No, the thread is about whether JW's are Christians. The secondary question is whether one can be a Christian without believing that Jesus is God, at least in the Trinitarian sense.
post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
No, the thread is about whether JW's are Christians. The secondary question is whether one can be a Christian without believing that Jesus is God, at least in the Trinitarian sense.
You're right. My bad.

Although I have to ask, what other sense is there, besides trinitarian that says Jesus is God?

IMHO, & many others I might add....Jehovah's witnesses are not Christian. I'm honestly trying not to be mean, but, there are basic beliefs when it comes to Christianity. If you don't believe in those, then why would you want to call yourself a Christian?? I don't get it! They may use the same terminology, with different meanings though. They believe they are the only ones with the truth. Correct? All of us are wrong. They alone have the truth. Just like LDS.

Everyone else is wrong. Only they have God's truth. So, if you are not JW, you aren't a true Christian. You aren't saved. You have to be a part of THEIR organization, or you are damned to hell....oops, wait, not hell, since they don't believe in that either...but annihilation.

Correct guys?
post #33 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
You're right. My bad.

Although I have to ask, what other sense is there, besides trinitarian that says Jesus is God?

IMHO, & many others I might add....Jehovah's witnesses are not Christian. I'm honestly trying not to be mean, but, there are basic beliefs when it comes to Christianity. If you don't believe in those, then why would you want to call yourself a Christian?? I don't get it! They may use the same terminology, with different meanings though. They believe they are the only ones with the truth. Correct? All of us are wrong. They alone have the truth. Just like LDS.

Everyone else is wrong. Only they have God's truth. So, if you are not JW, you aren't a true Christian. You aren't saved. You have to be a part of THEIR organization, or you are damned to hell....oops, wait, not hell, since they don't believe in that either...but annihilation.

Correct guys?
Ha, you are correct. They wont grant other religions the same respect as many of those religions grant them. To them every other religion is "false religion". They think they alone have the "Truth" and the rest of us are doomed.

But, I would argue that they and LDS are Christian, because they believe in and follow Jesus. They accept the whole bible and try living by it. If they are not Christian, what exactly are they? I'd like to know what to tell people that I was for 30 years
post #34 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
<snip> We may disagree on non-essentials, such as baptism & the work of the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues, gifts), infant baptism vs adult, sprinkling vs full immersion baptism, KJV only vs other versions, worship style (music, no music) & service style (liturgical, contemporary)....the list of non essentials goes on & on. <snip>
I'd certainly never be the one to tell a Baptist that baptism is non essential or a catholic that infant baptism isnt core.

If you gave an experienced JW 15 minutes and a bible they could show you lots of scriptures that point to the separateness of Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. Not enough to change your mind but probably enough to keep make you get where they are coming from.

JWs are Christian. Under their theology their is no salvation without Christ.
post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennica View Post
Ha, you are correct. They wont grant other religions the same respect as many of those religions grant them. To them every other religion is "false religion". They think they alone have the "Truth" and the rest of us are doomed.

But, I would argue that they and LDS are Christian, because they believe in and follow Jesus. They accept the whole bible and try living by it. If they are not Christian, what exactly are they? I'd like to know what to tell people that I was for 30 years

They don't accept the Bible Alone. They accept their version, the NWT & you have to study their material with the Bible, & LDS think all churches are corrupt, along with the Bible, that's why they have the book of mormon, doctrine & covenants, etc.

Sure, anyone can believe in Jesus. Believe what? What if you believe in the wrong one?

They are what they claim. Jehovah's Witnesses.

With me, I never say I'm just Christian since it can hold so many meanings now-a-days. I used to be Catholic. I used to be pentecostal.

Now? I'm a Born again believer. Evangelical Christian? heck, I don't know what to call myself!! LOL! I belong to no denominational church. I just read the Bible, believe it all, & know I'm saved by grace. Period.
post #36 of 93
Just out of curiosity, do you believe Catholics are Christians?
post #37 of 93
Quote:
If you gave an experienced JW 15 minutes and a bible they could show you lots of scriptures that point to the separateness of Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. Not enough to change your mind but probably enough to keep make you get where they are coming from.
I have. Much more time than 15 minutes too. It takes much more for them to point out scriptures in their own Bible & literature though.

Too many scriptures in the NWT is mistranslated. Why would I want to study a book that's written solely for one religious group that started in the late 1800's? :

Why is it when I asked tough questions, & wanted to dig deeper, they refused & left? This is after going through all the basics of JW's beliefs. Like how Jesus died on a torture stake, not the common form of Roman execution of a cross/beam.

Isn't other Bible's good enough?
post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
...Too many scriptures in the NWT is mistranslated. Why would I want to study a book that's written solely for one religious group that started in the late 1800's? : ...
I agree with that. Thus I am an Ex-JW.
post #39 of 93
There you go Frunchy-- that's why you heard conflicting reports.
post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by athansor View Post
Just out of curiosity, do you believe Catholics are Christians?
Anyone can be saved (Romans 10:9).

I honestly don't question ones salvation. I just question what they think.

Catholics have different views on communion, baptism, etc....I may not believe in all their teachings, but, Catholics believe Jesus is God.

Is Satan a Christian? He believes in Christ. Is he saved? I think not, LOL!

The word Christian means nothing to me really. If you receive Christ, & are open to His teachings, & not locked into some one else's teaching....well, that's freedom in Christ. It doesn't matter our background or religion. It's the relationship.

With that relationship, God will lead you to seek Him only. No religion, no group. He is not a respecter of persons.

No one to tell you what to study. Just you & God. No traditions, no man made belief.

If we think the Bible is divine rather than human in origin, & is ALIVE, that's all we need!

Basic instructions before leaving earth.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Religious Studies
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › Spirituality › Religious Studies › Easy Question for Jehovah's Witnesses