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Sad Thing I See All the Time - Page 5

post #81 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcng View Post
While a car seat will certantly increase the chances of survival is not a magic bubble, children die in Britax seats too, driving is a risk, is the #1 killer of children restrained and unrestrained, If you want to take that chance for yourself fine, but if I see you driving with a kid in the car I´m calling the cops there is too much of a risk.

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post #82 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanidFL View Post
DS was a car hater and a screamer anytime he got in a car seat. We had a trip to Canada when he was 4 months old over Christmas. At the last minute, my parents could not pick us up from the airport so my dad paid for the bus ticket and we had exactly 20 minutes from the time the plane landed till the bus left. The bus ride was 3.5 hours. So after 3 hours of flying and no break, he gets put yet again into his car seat. He was SCREAMING and I mean SCREAMING. After an hour I was in tears and about 4 people on the bus were visibly upset and yelling at me. It was getting out of control and I made the decision to take him out of the car seat Judge me if you want but I feel in that situation the risk of us getting into an accident was far less likely than someone getting physical with us from frustrations over a screaming baby.
What kind of bus were you on in Canada that had the capability to install a car seat? I've taken the bus a few times, and just never had a bus with that capability.

I see your situation as different though because it was a BUS. Different rules on buses and a bus has different dynamics in an accident due to its size, weight and design. And most buses don't have a way to install a car seat. Heck, most buses don't even have seat belts for adult passengers! Not saying kids wouldn't be safer in their seat, installed, just that it's not possible in many buses.
post #83 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
sorry - its all subjective. there are people who would claim unassisted childbirth is having no regard for your child's safety. or not vaccinating. or not supplementing with formula when a doctor says to. How about - you worry about your child and I'll worry about mine
I'm not sure it's subjective. It has been proven that being unrestrained in a vehicle increases your chance of injury and death, which is why it is law in many places (I realize there are countries with no seat belt laws). Unassisted childbirth and not vaccinating is NOT illegal as there isn't the data or the "crash tests" to prove it's unsafe.
post #84 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:34pm
Yikes! Great videos but scary!
post #85 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:37pm
I'm not advocating the practice, but nursing an unrestrained child is not illegal everywhere. It's currently legal in Michigan to take a child out of their restraints in a moving car to nurse. Just a little FYI for those of you who call the police. Some folks have challenged this, but it's on the books, so it's not illegal.
http://cns.jrn.msu.edu/articles/2003...STFEEDING.html
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...SFA-0882-A.pdf
post #86 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:40pm
the situation we were in when it WAS IMPOSSIBLE or at least, for all intents and purposes, impossible to stop, was when we were following my in-laws far from home. cell phone was dead from a long weekend. baby was screaming...only one option.

the other time was just because it was VERY late and we didn't want to stop because we didn't want to get home all late.
post #87 of 116
11/25/08 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoGranola View Post
Yikes! Great videos but scary!
Apparently not scary enough
post #88 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:02pm
This

Quote:
While a car seat will certantly increase the chances of survival is not a magic bubble, children die in Britax seats too, driving is a risk, is the #1 killer of children restrained and unrestrained, If you want to take that chance for yourself fine, but if I see you driving with a kid in the car I´m calling the cops there is too much of a risk.
So for the people who say OMG I would never in a million years put my child at risk by: letting them ride unrestrained, turning them forward facing when they are only 1, putting them in a booster when they are four, I am curious if you are aware of the danger you are putting them in every time you drive them somewhere in the car. If you are aware of the risk and you still chose to drive your kid to the park I don't understand how you can be so sanctimonious.
post #89 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
That means nothing. IF an accident happened (sure it's not very likely, but IF it did) I want my child in a car seat. The risk is too big to do otherwise. If you feel differently, and want to take that risk, that's your own choice.

It's different if an adult chooses not to wear a seat belt. A child has no choice. They are only as safe as WE make them.

I completely understand those moments on long trips where you might do this and say "yeah, it wasn't safe, but it's what we did in that moment"... whatever. But I am honestly shocked that people are arguing that it's NOT unsafe to do. I mean really.
It's not different for an adult either. An unrestrained adult becomes a projectile that can injure/kill every other person in the car.
post #90 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoGranola View Post
What kind of bus were you on in Canada that had the capability to install a car seat? I've taken the bus a few times, and just never had a bus with that capability.
Shuttle buses are more like giant vans with seatbelts for all passengers.
post #91 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalimay View Post
This



So for the people who say OMG I would never in a million years put my child at risk by: letting them ride unrestrained, turning them forward facing when they are only 1, putting them in a booster when they are four, I am curious if you are aware of the danger you are putting them in every time you drive them somewhere in the car. If you are aware of the risk and you still chose to drive your kid to the park I don't understand how you can be so sanctimonious.
Um, can I ask if any child's died in a carseat when the car was traveling at city speeds? Because I know kids have died when in "minor" accidents when unrestrained. Pretty sure it's not being properly restrained that makes things like "just a quick trip to the park" "less than a mile drive to the store" dangerous.
post #92 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalimay View Post
This



So for the people who say OMG I would never in a million years put my child at risk by: letting them ride unrestrained, turning them forward facing when they are only 1, putting them in a booster when they are four, I am curious if you are aware of the danger you are putting them in every time you drive them somewhere in the car. If you are aware of the risk and you still chose to drive your kid to the park I don't understand how you can be so sanctimonious.


I'm shocked at how many people on this thread are defending this behavior.

Really? You think that properly restraining a child in the correct position in the backseat of a car and driving ANYWHERE equates with purposefully choosing to leave a child unrestrained? People really believe that?

Those two things aren't even in the same galaxy of similarity. There is inherent risk in everything. Every. Single. Thing. Eating, sleeping, taking a bath, going for a walk, riding in a wagon, reading a book...LIVING in and of itself is the biggest risk to life. To say that people who properly restrain their child in a car and drive them to a park is the SAME as not restraining them at all simply because they each carry risk is simply rediculous. That is like saying that since a child could choke on ANY piece of food, you might as well just go ahead and feed your 9 month-old whole grapes. And hey, since your child could die of SIDS no matter what you do, just go ahead and put a big, thick down comfortor and a few dozen stuffed animals in your newborn's crib.

I don't get it.

The job of parents is not to remove all risk from our child's life...it is to educate ourselves and use that knowledge to DECREASE risk as much as possible. Ask any parent who has lost a child...sometimes no matter what you do, it isn't enough. But to do nothing based on that thought process is negligent.
post #93 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Shuttle buses are more like giant vans with seatbelts for all passengers.
Okay. I guess I always think of "bus" as in a big, long city bus or a Greyhound bus!
post #94 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little grey mare View Post
These threads disturb me. I have only seen one questionable incident around here, a FF'ing seat had the flipper thing underneath in the wrong position so it was reclined too far.
I know that it was wrong because it's the same carseat DS1 has.
Some carseat manufacturers allow the recline foot to be in the up position while forward-facing to a certain weight limit.
post #95 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post
I have held my crying baby in my arms in a moving car, and I do not see my self as a bad parent.
Well, so have I . . . but only because I was escaping racists who threatened to bash her "half breed" head in....

Quote:
I think that each parent needs to make safety decisions for themselves.
Sure, within reason based on accurate & comprehensive information. This being that motor vehicle crashes are the #1 cause of death for all kids.

Quote:
Why is it OK to be so judgmental on this topic?
The fact that it's children's LIVES at stake, not merely a scraped knee or such like.

Quote:
Those of us that do not vaccinate or co sleep are seen by many mainstreamers as ignorant parents needlessly endangering our kids lives. But that does not mean that we are.
Vax'ing & carseats are 2 *completely* separate issues.

Quote:
Both have been held by me and nursed on the rare occasion that they needed it NOW and stopping was not an option.
How is it ever not possible to exit the road & find somewhere to stop? I've lived in very rural + very cosmopolitan areas & have visited other countries, too. My daughter was exclusively BF'd for 12 months without ever being removed from her carseat unless the vehicle was in park.

Because I also grew up watching my father treat the kids who don't die. Neither is an option I'm willing to risk. I guess it's between you & whatever higher power you might believe in, but I would never forgive myself if I chose that risk knowing the consequences.
post #96 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:49pm
Yes some crashes are unsurvivable, but a RF seat can reduce that risk about 75%

CORRECT USE is the key. Actually being buckled up inside the carseat is a pretty big part of correct use.

Legislators might say it's legal for babies to be removed for their seats for nursing, but they don't control the laws of PHYSICS nor does breastmilk make an infant immune to the laws of physics.
post #97 of 116
11/25/08 at 7:51pm
Quote:
I'm shocked at how many people on this thread are defending this behavior.

Really? You think that properly restraining a child in the correct position in the backseat of a car and driving ANYWHERE equates with purposefully choosing to leave a child unrestrained? People really believe that?
I am not defending the behavior. I am trying to understand how people can be so judgmental when likely they themselves are putting their child at risk by driving with them.
I wonder if the car seats give a sense of inflated security. Yes, your kids are much safer in the car seat but guess what, compared to the relative risk of other dangers driving in the car is still huge risk.

Quote:
Um, can I ask if any child's died in a carseat when the car was traveling at city speeds? Because I know kids have died when in "minor" accidents when unrestrained. Pretty sure it's not being properly restrained that makes things like "just a quick trip to the park" "less than a mile drive to the store" dangerous.
Yes, children can and have died in car seats when the car was traveling at city speeds.
post #98 of 116
11/25/08 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by moondiapers View Post
It's not different for an adult either. An unrestrained adult becomes a projectile that can injure/kill every other person in the car.
Correct.

Man killed by unrestrained passenger (news article)
http://www.mac.sa.gov.au/popup/tv_campaign.php?id=65 (warning: disturbing commercial)
post #99 of 116
11/25/08 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalimay View Post
This



So for the people who say OMG I would never in a million years put my child at risk by: letting them ride unrestrained, turning them forward facing when they are only 1, putting them in a booster when they are four, I am curious if you are aware of the danger you are putting them in every time you drive them somewhere in the car. If you are aware of the risk and you still chose to drive your kid to the park I don't understand how you can be so sanctimonious.
I simply cannot follow your argument. Yes, riding in the car is one of the most dangerous things our kids do. I think we all understand the risk. Since it is dangerous, we should make every effort to make those rides as safe as possible. When you choose not to correctly restrain a child, you are not doing all that you can do to keep your child safe or reduce their risk of injury or death.

What exactly are you arguing? That we should all just stay home? That we shouldn't ride in cars? That car seat safety is pointless because riding in a car is dangerous? I just can't figure out exactly what our point is.
post #100 of 116
11/25/08 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
sorry - its all subjective. there are people who would claim unassisted childbirth is having no regard for your child's safety. or not vaccinating. or not supplementing with formula when a doctor says to. How about - you worry about your child and I'll worry about mine


I'll still call the cops whenever I see a child unrestrained in a car.
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