vent & whine (sympathy appreciated!)

[ASusan]

I don't have a lot of time to post, but I did want to whine and vent.

DH is pro-Western medicine - understandably so, as it saved his life on more than one occasion. He is also a research scientist. His cousin is a virologist, and his cousin's wife is a dentist. They came to visit this past weekend - the first overnight guests in our new house. They are some of my favorite people, BUT...they are HUGE believers in vaccination. And, who can argue with a virologist, who teaches and researches viruses (and vaxes) for a living? DH even said, before they arrived, "Maybe you can talk to C- this weekend - he's a virologist - and (he can convince you that we should vax/why you are wrong)."

SO not what I wanted to do with my weekend evening. Of course, at the dinner table, Chix pox came up, DH looked pointedly at me, and they launched into the assault. I didn't bite. I tried to ask a few polite questions, but I REALLY didn't want to get into it. I did learn that DH thought he had CP as a child, and cousin said that it wasn't likely because CP wasn't endemic in the country where they grew up. SO, we know that DH's memory isn't infallible, and that it is likely that he is NOT immune to CP.

At 3 in the morning, DH was sitting straight up in bed, not sleeping. When I asked why, he said we could talk about it in the morning. But I pressed for a discussion. He had been talking to cousin and his wife after I went to bed. DH is SOOOO concerned for DS's life. He says it keeps him up at night. and on and on...I tried to validate his concerns, let him know that I heard him, and repeated that we would look into each disease and vaccine and decide each one separately. (We had discussed doing this back in August, when we had a long discussion about vaxing, but neither of us took any action.) I really had thought he had heard my concerns in August, and generally agreed with me. But, apparently not. He was SOO upset. "If anything happens to DS, I will never be able to forgive you." (He might get polio! We want to travel and he could be exposed to ____!) I tried to gently say that if we vaxed DS, and he had a reaction, that I believed my relationship with DH was such that I would be able to forgive him, and work with him to help DS. I don't think that line went over so well, but I thought it was a genuine sentiment, if not a tad backhanded.

DH IS concerned about taking meds that are newer and not having our son be a guinea pig. So, I use the lines of reasoning that (1) the CDC schedule is NOTHING like when we were children and that (2) the combinations of vaxes that are given are NOT researched or tested. DH also would like to give "the vaccines that we received as children." I said that was a fine place to start. We do know my vaxes from my baby book, but DH was vaxed in a former British colony, and they would shoot them up all the time at school. (without permission from parents), and I've tried researching in the past what he might have received, but came up empty-handed.

He did sort of agree to read some of the things I've read (which allowed me to start questioning vaxes). This includes Stephanie Cave's "What your Dr. Might not tell you about Vaccines." Anything stronger (anti-vax) than that will probably lead to resistance. Everything must be meticulously cited (peer-review journal).

Any suggestions for DVD or online video? (That worked for the rear-facing car seat, although it was a 38-second video!)

THanks for reading this far, if you have.

Any suggestions? Commiseration?

[Marnica]

You do have my sympathy!!! I know its hard! Ive been there, but ultimately DH saw the light. It may have had something to do with "DS will be vaccinated over my dead body" statement . Anyway I highly reccomend Dr. Sherri Tenpenny's DVD "Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, the Choices" http://www.nmaseminars.com/rbcDESCRIPTION.html
It is very informative and all of her VAST research is backed up by the medical establishment. She is an Osteopathic doctor.
Good luck!!

[Ophelia]

I hear ya. DH and I also disagree, so much so that he forced me into accepting all the vaxes DS has had (most of them up to 12mo). I wish I would have been more assertive about it. We watched Dr. Jay Gordon's Vaccination DVD after all that, and he did like it and it got him thinking. We still disagree though and he seems to ignore all the info I send to him via email (info backed up by studies, references so it's not like I'm pulling the info out of my ).

I've never debated with a virologist before, so I'm not sure how difficult it is. It would be nice for us to be able to know everything off the top of our heads, but you can ask the doc to back up his info with references, and tell him you'd like to do more research but really you don't have to answer to anyone, although I know it is not helping with the disagreement.

If you click on my website, I have links to the Dr. Sheri Tenpenny video. Also check InsideVaccines website for excellent information. Dr. Gordon has a few clips on YouTube.

[nia82]

Wow that is hard!!!! My sister is a doctor and very pro-vax (though she is anti HPV and doesn't trust big pharma, but at med school they just hammer it into you)... I tried to discuss the issue once, but she dismisses all cons of vaccination... I know though that she never researched it properly. She was surprised to learn that there is aborted fetal tissue in some vaccines... She didn't want to believe it in the beginning but then googled it... So I think many doctors and scientists in that area don't even know the downside of vaccines and have no incentive to ever look at it as it is "known to be safe"...
I hope you can work it out with your hubbie...

I'm not at the point yet to decline all vaxes; for now I'm planning on giving DS what I had as a child (starting at 6 months with DTaP, Polio at 12 months, measles after his 2nd birthday, rubella at 12 years, HepB at 16).

[Gitti]

My MD son-in-law was totally beside himself when dd suggested not vaccinating their first child. He talked to friends, some peds, and was adamant about vaccinating. She put it off until he would inform himself.

First she asked him to read this book which did seem to calm him down - Aviva Jill Romm Vaccination a thoughtful parents guide.

He started to research vaccines after that and come to the conclusion that they are not really necessary for his kids. The kids are now 3 and 5yo. and completely vaccine, abx, allopathic med free.

[ema-adama]

Very briefly. I am so sorry you are in that position. I had awful time with IL's who are doctors and they got very snarky. And a DH who after 6 months of intense discussion suddenly said, "yeah, but the illnesses are also dangerous"

I second the Sherri Tenpenny video.... there are things that your DH might not like as she does infer things like Hep B being grown in yeast and babies getting yeasty, which may or may not be linked. BUT, she does have lots of facts and figures that cannot be discredited and a rather common sense approach.

Really really hard. Hopefully you will be able to find the 2 1/2 hours needed to sit together and go through the video.

[taterbug1999]

Sherri Tenpenny- all the way. She's a doc herself and was an ER doc for many years, yet is vax free herself. She has testified before the CDC many times. It's kind of hard to ignore her even from a mainstream viewpoint. So I agree whole-heartedly with the PPs who have said watch her vids together. Good luck hon- you got blind sided and that's not fair. I think I'd be a bit miffed at my dh if I were you.

[Emmeline II]

I'd tell my dh that vaccine debates with guests are off topic and he better tell that to these particular guests when they are invited again or I will walk out the door and have dinner somewhere else.

Anywho...here is a list of questions for you two to answer together:

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[ASusan]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all.

Your supportive posts bring tears to my eyes.

I'll send individual thanks later, as I am at work and have lots to do by 5pm.

Off to order the Tenpenny DVD tonight!

[ASusan]

It's too compelling. The reason I haven't done a lot of research lately is because it makes my heart race. And I really don't have the time, at work or at home. I want to read Blaylock's article, and want DH to read it. But DH has blasted holes in Blaylock's work before (regarding MSG being a neurotoxin). He's even done community presentations on it. Aarugh. So he'll see Blaylock's name on it and automatically reject it.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by ASusan

But DH has blasted holes in Blaylock's work before (regarding MSG being a neurotoxin). He's even done community presentations on it.

He did community presentations on MSG being benign?
Oh boy! You do have your job cut out for you.



Good luck!

[ema-adama]

If you haven't ordered the Tenpenny video yet, it is in the list of links posted by Emmiline II.

[momofmine]

I second Dr Jay Gordon's DVD. He's a practicing pediatrician, and you really come away from that one feeling reassured. I also second that Aviva Romm book Gitti suggested.

I would just concentrate on each vaccine one at a time. Ask him which one is his biggest fear, then look it up on the insidevaccines website to start. Lot of good info there, lots of it from the CDC themselves, even. What you will find will amaze you. There are vaccines that have never even been adequately studied or proven to be effective. If he doesn't want his child to be a guinea pig, you could point this out to him.

I also think that until you can "agree", the default is to not vaccinate. So, until he can prove to you that the vaccines are safe and effective, beyond a shadow of a doubt, no vax. That's my stance. And you simply can't.


It can be scary at first though, so I think you are taking the right approach by just being reassuring and making him feel heard. but don't let him drag you down into his fears. He's just got to work it out on his own. I have let myslef feel pressured about health care decisions in the past by my husband. But my position now is that, unless he is going to do the research that I have done, read all the books, email the experts (yes I actually do things like that), and talk to fifty thousand people, like I have, then the decision is up to me. If he wants to do the research too, then we can have a conversation and I am open to discussion.