Tongue Tie Question - Page 13

[KimPM]

Originally Posted by waluso

DD's pediatrician yesterday confirmed that DD is tongue-tied. Her pediatrician was leaning towards doing nothing about it because DD is already 6 months old and it is not significant, but is willing to support us if we decide to get it clipped. She mentioned her last patient who had it clipped had no improvement afterwards (not sure what the issues were). The pediatrician is looking for a doctor who will clip it (she doesn't want to do it considering DD's age). I am definitely leaning towards getting it clipped but want to make sure I have fully thought through all the pros and cons.

I'm curious as to how the OP's pediatrician did the diagnosis of tongue tie. My DS is 3, but I wonder if he has some kind of non-obvious tie that led to his myriad mouth issues - BFing, feeding, oral motor issues. He still occasionally has some problems swallowing and I wonder if either tongue tie or high palate is the problem.

[waluso]

Originally Posted by KimPM

I'm curious as to how the OP's pediatrician did the diagnosis of tongue tie. My DS is 3, but I wonder if he has some kind of non-obvious tie that led to his myriad mouth issues - BFing, feeding, oral motor issues. He still occasionally has some problems swallowing and I wonder if either tongue tie or high palate is the problem.

DD's pediatrician just put her finger in DD's mouth and felt it, but she diagnosed an anterior tie (the kind easier to identify). I have not found anyone in my area who knows anything about posterior ties.

[Astromom]

changingseasons, thanks for directing me to this thread. I'm finally through it. (And how is your DD doing now??) I think a posterior tie fits, and along with his pretty obvious high palate, this could really be a piece of the puzzle. However, he's already 23 months... probably too late to deal w/ the PTT... and the closest practitioner who might be able to diagnose a PTT is 8 hrs away (looking at the list in post 24 of this thread.)

I have a list of people I'm going to call regarding CST for the high palate at least (when we're through w/ the chicken pox).

Can I just make sure I understand the differences between the TT types? My understanding is: an anterior tie is easier to see, and the tie is toward the tip of the tongue. However, the base of the tongue is normal. A posterior tongue looks pretty normal and can stick out, etc, but the base of the tongue is tighter than it should be. Is that right?

Thanks for all the information in this thread.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by Astromom

changingseasons, thanks for directing me to this thread. I'm finally through it. (And how is your DD doing now??)

She's doing really good- thanks! Between the tongue tie, CST, and homeopathy she's finally started gaining weight!!

[Astromom]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

She's doing really good- thanks! Between the tongue tie, CST, and homeopathy she's finally started gaining weight!!

So good to hear!

:

[AquariusHome]

Hi Mamas. Yesterday I'm almost certain I finally solved the 15 month mystery of Ellie's tongue issues. Here is a link to the thread with the explaination (post #8) if you are interested. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5#post13008905

This thread has been absolutely vital to my process. Thank you so much for your help! You Mamas are so awesome!!!

[gilamama]

hi everyone, thanks for this thread. we have 3 fewer frenula in our house this week. My baby had his tongue tie cliped and a labial frenulum clipped and my dh had his tongue tie clipped. My 2 dds were evaled bu the doc wouldnt cut my dd2. mydh was in pain for like a day after, so maybe if we find someon ewho uses laser theywill clip my dd2. hopefully it wil help his sinuses, sleep, digestion... the list goes on. As for my baby he is sucking so much better!!!! He was gaining fine but the difference in his suck is amazing! we had it done on tuesday and i saw under his tongue today for the first time.

[mtn.mama]

We saw an ENT in December to have my then 17 month old evaluated for tongue tie. The ENT said he'll definitely clip her upper lip frenulum and a residual anterior tongue tie... but first he wanted her to do a barium swallow study to see if it revealed any other difficulties. So we had the swallow study done a couple days ago.

The SLP said that the back of my DD's tongue has an odd shape/slope and that liquid is pooling in her throat before going down her esophagus. Now we wait to see what the ENT analysis is, and preferred course of action. The SLP thought that a posterior tie is likely. Hopefully I can convince the ENT to take care of it.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by mtn.mama

We saw an ENT in December to have my then 17 month old evaluated for tongue tie. The ENT said he'll definitely clip her upper lip frenulum and a residual anterior tongue tie... but first he wanted her to do a barium swallow study to see if it revealed any other difficulties. So we had the swallow study done a couple days ago.

The SLP said that the back of my DD's tongue has an odd shape/slope and that liquid is pooling in her throat before going down her esophagus. Now we wait to see what the ENT analysis is, and preferred course of action. The SLP thought that a posterior tie is likely. Hopefully I can convince the ENT to take care of it.

That's really interesting. I'll be curious to hear how it all turns out!

Are they going to do the labial and lingual clips at the same time? I wish that we had done that... the doc wanted to do just the lingual first, so that we could see what kind of impact that had. But after going through it once, I couldn't justify putting DD through it again just for the labial. I think we will have it done in a few years if it doesn't stretch out... but we're in no hurry (except for doing it before her adult teeth come in so that it doesn't interfere with correct placement.)

And I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea... it really wasn't that bad of a procedure at all. There was hardly any blood, DD cried for about 30 seconds and then was fine. It was being swaddled that really upset her- she did NOT like being confined like that. She was pretty upset for about 24 hours.

[AimeeJules]

Oh I am soooooooo happy to find a CURRENT support group for tongue tie!! My nipples are ready to fall off!! I need help really badly as I am so close to throwing in the towel and just formula feeding.

Isabella was born Dec. 25th, 2008 and had her frenulum clipped 3 days later. I thought this was supposed to make breastfeeding better, well it did A LITTLE. She can stick out her tongue, but she doesn't stick it out when opening to nurse! So all I see her gums and her tongue tucked back when I give her my boob. She has been copying me lately sticking her tongue out, but I dont' know how to get her to do it when offering the boob. Can anyone help?!?!

Also, I still get that lipstick effect on my boob when she's on. Or, my nipples looked sorta pinched (crease folds on the sides of my nipples). She has no problem sucking, in fact she has a very strong suck. I have scars that run straight down my nipples!
I found a LLLI site that explains why

Pumping is no fun either. I am paralized in my thinking and don't know what to do anymore. I REALLY REALLY want to continue to BF. Does anyone know what the problem may be? I've seen 2 Lactation consultants already and they say she flicks her tongue in and out when sucking on their finger (so I guess that's what she's doing on me??) They also tell me that she may or may never learn to stick her tongue out when nursing. Is this true?!?! I've heard of many successful stories after the frenulum being cut, so why is it not true for me? This is my first child so I don't even know what it's supposed to feel like.

I feel like I'm already grieving BF.

Oh, and what is the gut problem that was discussed earlier?? (I can't read through all the posts). I noticed a few days ago my little girl was really really gassy (colic!!!!) and would sometimes have a hard time going through a bowel movement. Does this have to do with tt??! Why aren't the L.C. aware of issues like this? Who do I need to speak to and what questions to I need to raise when I speak to them?

Please help me. I'm so sad.

(Other info, I have thrush as well now, after her and I being on antibiotics in the hosp for the 3 days. I know there's that pain as well I have to deal with, but I don't think that the scars on my nipples, the lipstick effect or the pinching has to do with it. Or does it?)

[changingseasons]

AimeeJules - Welcome to MDC!

What really helped for us was doing CST (cranio sacral therapy) with a chiropractor after getting DD's tie clipped.

The gut issue is about how a posterior tongue tie basically can effect your digestion. Improper digestion can lead to gut (intestinal) damage, causing the intestinal walls to become more permeable. (Antibiotics will also have the same effect!) When your gut becomes more permeable, it lets through food proteins that shouldn't get through into your bloodstream. Your body sees the protein as a foreign invader and attacks it, and that is how food allergies/intolerances happen. The most common food allergy in babies is dairy, followed by soy, eggs, gluten. If your babe seems colicy, the first thing I would do is take dairy out of your diet- 100%. And keep a food diary with everything you eat, and all her symptoms, so that you can see what changes depending on what you eat.

Check out my blog (link in my signature) to learn more about food allergies in babies. Not many professionals know much about this topic, so I'm not surprised that the LC couldn't help you.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

AimeeJules - Welcome to MDC!

What really helped for us was doing CST (cranio sacral therapy) with a chiropractor after getting DD's tie clipped.

The gut issue is about how a posterior tongue tie basically can effect your digestion. Improper digestion can lead to gut (intestinal) damage, causing the intestinal walls to become more permeable. (Antibiotics will also have the same effect!) When your gut becomes more permeable, it lets through food proteins that shouldn't get through into your bloodstream. Your body sees the protein as a foreign invader and attacks it, and that is how food allergies/intolerances happen. The most common food allergy in babies is dairy, followed by soy, eggs, gluten. If your babe seems colicy, the first thing I would do is take dairy out of your diet- 100%. And keep a food diary with everything you eat, and all her symptoms, so that you can see what changes depending on what you eat.

Check out my blog (link in my signature) to learn more about food allergies in babies. Not many professionals know much about this topic, so I'm not surprised that the LC couldn't help you.

I agree!! Welcome! My ds didn't have tongue tie (though it was suspected), but he had major feeding issues. We did 4 sessions of cranial sacral and it worked! We also met with multiple lactation consultants who basically didn't help but they said something important, that a baby learns how to nurse by nursing. You have to keep on with it. Perhaps tongue training, too, where you stick your finger in the baby's mouth and press on the tongue as you pull it out, so the baby gets used to laying the tongue flat and extending it. You might get some good advice in the bfing forum, too. There's one for bfing difficulties.

[AimeeJules]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

AimeeJules - Welcome to MDC!

What really helped for us was doing CST (cranio sacral therapy) with a chiropractor after getting DD's tie clipped.

DId that help with her tongue latch? I just need my daughter to use her tongue more effectively instead of pinching or using her jaw to get milk out.

Do you think I should seek out getting CST done for this?

[AimeeJules]

Thanks ladies. I guess I have to stick it out then. Ohhhhhhhhhhh it hurts me just thinking about it!!! :/

Ok so as for the 'lipstick' effect. I'm not sure if when they do that it's painful on the nipple or not. I can't tell if the pain is from her tongue or the thrush we are trying to get rid of!! But I do know is that the longer she is on me... it gets painful towards the end. Anyone know anything about that or why???

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by AimeeJules

DId that help with her tongue latch? I just need my daughter to use her tongue more effectively instead of pinching or using her jaw to get milk out.

Do you think I should seek out getting CST done for this?

Yes- that will help with the latch I think.

The pain definitely could be from thrush as well. Are you guys doing any probiotics?

[AimeeJules]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Yes- that will help with the latch I think.

The pain definitely could be from thrush as well. Are you guys doing any probiotics?

i am, but she's on nystatin.

[nalo]

Update

DD was evaluated yesterday by a breastfeeding specialist (MD) who has specialized training and extensive experience with TT. (The same person CS used for her DD). She confirmed that DD has an anterior tonge tie but that it's fairly minor. Given that it's never been a functional problem, that she has fabulous range of motion with her tongue and she used to clearly say "lalala" (one of the things she has stopped saying) indicating at least the tip of her tongue reaches her palate (I've also heard her make an "n" sound which is good), that we don't need to clip now. She said she'd be willing to if I really wanted but we agreed on a wait and see plan. If speech is ultimately affected at all we can always clip down the road but right now we're thinking it won't be necessary (fingers crossed). She also said the labial frenulum is a bit thick but not problematic (I had a big gap in my teeth until about 14 years old and I never needed braces so I'm hoping this might be the same for her). So...all in all a good visit and I am happy with the outcome.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by nalo

DD was evaluated yesterday by a breastfeeding specialist (MD) who has specialized training and extensive experience with TT. (The same person CS used for her DD). She confirmed that DD has an anterior tonge tie but that it's fairly minor. Given that it's never been a functional problem, that she has fabulous range of motion with her tongue and she used to clearly say "lalala" (one of the things she has stopped saying) indicating at least the tip of her tongue reaches her palate (I've also heard her make an "n" sound which is good), that we don't need to clip now. She said she'd be willing to if I really wanted but we agreed on a wait and see plan. If speech is ultimately affected at all we can always clip down the road but right now we're thinking it won't be necessary (fingers crossed). She also said the labial frenulum is a bit thick but not problematic (I had a big gap in my teeth until about 14 years old and I never needed braces so I'm hoping this might be the same for her). So...all in all a good visit and I am happy with the outcome.

That's awesome! I'm glad you got in to see her. And that you didn't have to clip.

[kortner]

So I took DS (12 m) in for CST today, and she definitely saw some tongue-tie. She noticed a little heart shape, which I hadn't, and also said his palate was high but not too narrow. DS was very tolerant, but eventually had enough and didn't really want her feeling under his tongue. Just from feeling the outside she said the muscles were very thick/strong. She said she thought I could work with him to allow me to feel under there and that could loosen the tongue and give more mobility. She thinks it would be good to give this some time before going to an ENT. Today DS is unwilling for any more fingers in his mouth, but I am eager to try it myself. The CST felt under my tongue to show me how to do it, and then had me do hers. Guess I am really taking healing into my own hands.

AimeeJules - I have a friend whose baby, Isabella, was born Dec. 25th! She is also dealing with bfing issues and posterior tie. A clip hasn't helped her either...but I'm pretty sure hers wasn't done 3 days old, but more recently. I feel for you. I know she is having it rough and I remember how rough I was having it in those early days. Wish I could help more!

[Panserbjorne]

sounds like you are super happy with your outcome! That's wonderful!