Is this the end?

[ForMyBoy]

Okay. So I am probably going to get raked through the coals for even trying to post my husbandly issues here on mothering, but I have reached my wits end. I have to post seeking advice from the community which shares the ideals we have for raising our DS and take my chances. I am also going to be terrible carful about the words that I use here, because on discussion boards (in general, not just mothering) responders seem to get caught up on semantics of words rather than the overall sentiment of the initial poster. I am an overall sentiment kind of guy, so please bear with me until the end. And if a single word or phrase strikes you funny, please ask for clarification before you respond with a two page attack about how I am a bad person. This is a serious posting that needs to be handled delicately. There is a marriage at stake here… a marriage with an almost three year old boy… and no matter if you agree with me or disagree with me… the dialogue that I have with responders needs to be respectful. Also, with all due respect to those of you who have wonderfully perfect marriages out there, congratulations, but you are not exactly the people I need to hear from right now… because, frankly, my marriage is not perfect… far from it… and that happens. It really does. It is not always candy canes and ice cream, so I would prefer to hear from couples who read what I have to say and think, “wow, that sucks… I have so been there.” Those are the people I need to talk to.
Okay, now that my disclaimer is over, I would like to begin.
First of all… I love my wife… at least I think I do. Even through this I have one of those fill in the blank “Why I love you” books that I have been slowly filling out during my lunch hour. I intended it to be her Valentine’s Day present. Frankly, the book has been one of the healthiest things for me to work on. Most days I don’t want to… I’m simply not in the mood… but I force myself and as I work on the book I remember why. I remember all the great little things that made us “us”. Then I go home.
My wife and I are coming up on four years together. Our DS will be turning 3 in February… so obviously, we didn’t have a chance to spend a whole lot of time together before we added a third party. During the pregnancy, we did everything right… did all the research… ended up changing our OB practice… hired a doula… midwife… and had the perfect birth… no drugs, no IV, no fetal monitor, no tearing, no nothing… and we didn’t even take a birthing class. We simply did the research, made the decisions, and stuck-by-them. We even had to sign hospital waiver because we thought breastfeeding and bonding was more important than there silly little baths… and our DS ended up being dubbed a dirty baby.
We are pro breastfeeding, pro co-sleeping, pro delayed vaccination… and when I use the word “we”… I mean “I”. I am all of those things. Well before I met my wife, my brother and sister-in-law were living the attached parenting dream. I even lived with them for about six months post college… so I was not a stranger to the lifestyle. I even had a former girlfriend that was so appalled that my sister-in-law breastfeeding at the table of a family dinner at my parents house one time that it lead to our break-up.
My point is that when my wife and I decided to do certain things with our DS… as a couple, I wasn’t clueless. When our DS was under a year old, we attended a LLL conference together. There was a husband and wives session and the one thing that I remember was a now single mom warning everyone to not forget about their spouses as the focused their love on their kids. And she was a little more specific than that… I remember her saying that “you can’t maintain a happy marriage is you are only worried about happy kids”.
Anyway, that is what led me here. I am not looking for people to agree with me… I am not looking for an “I told you so to my wife”… I am looking for an answer. Currently my wife and I have zero relationship of our own. Of any kind. It has been that way for quite a while. And yes, we have been to couple counseling… but it got us nowhere.
Right now my DS is almost three and he still breastfeeds, still co-sleeps, and still needs to have someone lay with in to fall asleep. When my wife is out (which is rarely) for a girls night, I can get him to sleep no problem. My son and I have a great relationship. But, if I put him to bed when she is here in the house, our DS will cry a little and in no time flat my wife will sloop in like a superhero to save him with her magic boob. Quite frankly, I have come to accustom to this scenario that I just assume not waste my time, because we are not teaching anything to our son by having that happen. I find it very frustrating because I CAN get him to sleep. But I am not allowed to when she is in the house… even though she tells me that she wants me to. Maddening!
This leads to the next era of sleepy time… she is over it… although she still holds all of the cards, she has lost her follow through. Which is understandable. If our DS hasn’t passed out within 15 minutes she gives up. If I try… our DS throws a fit and she tells me not to worry about it… but the next thing you know, it is 11pm and he is still up watching TV.
I don’t think this is right… not after three years. I have supported my wife in being a stay at home mom. I even surprised her by funding her doula certification when she was just talking about it… I knew she would be great… and yes, she is a certified doula now. And then we did something that was almost unheard of for a guy like me… a guy who had lived in the same city his entire life… my wife loves to travel and had lived abroad a couple times before we met… I caught her bug for seeing the world… and actually found a new job were we could all travel together as a family… right now we are all living in Eastern Europe… which makes the prospect of ending this relationship even harder. If we end this… I would pretty much be sending them back to the US. I don’t want my son growing up without me. But I can’t continue living with my wife the way that it is.
When I try to express the fact that I unhappy with the fact that we get zero time as a couple or don’t agree with my wife’s treatment of our son (letting him dictate his own schedule)… no bedtime and what not… she turns it around on me. I say that I think it is wrong that we don’t get any time together; she turns my feelings into an attack onto our son and says things like “that is why I will never be close to you”.
I don’t understand. I don’t think the idea of having time together as a couple is a terrible thing to ask. I also don’t think that asking for it is a slight to our son’s upbringing. It also ticks me off that I am not even allowed to flirt with my wife anymore. She is so caught up with being a mom that she has no time for advances… even if those “advances” were in just a playful tone… please tell me… what’s wrong with letting your wife know that you think she is sexy? What is wrong with wanting to have a small piece of your life be for “us” as a couple?
Anyway, I have lost my way in this posting… there is too much going on in my head. All I can say is that I am ready to throw in the towel... not on my son. But, life is complicated. We are in a situation where if things don’t work out… we won’t even live on the same continent. I am not prepared to let my son grow up without me… and at the same time I can’t live with my wife.
I don’t feel that she cares to entertain a relationship with her husband… and for that… I don’t know what to do. I just know that I can’t stay in a relationship like that. There is no point spending your like unloved. I came from parents who were unhappy in their marriage… I don’t want my son to grow up in the same environment.

[Ruthla]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

One thing I CAN tell you, as the mother of 3 "big kids", is that this period of intense neediness DOES end. Within the next 2 years, your son will grow naturally into a LOT more independence and many of these issues may resolve themselves. My son nursed over 4 years, and now goes to sleep in his own bed after some snuggle time. There's such a huge difference between a 3yo and a 5yo- even the 5yos who still nurse are a lot more independent than they were at age 3.

I'm seeing a bunch of issues in your post: first of all, I definitely see Secondly, I wonder if your wife might be depressed. You're living far from home- is she happy there? A major change in your whole place of living might (or might not) be in order to help her feel more comfortable and happy.

Even within the AP community, there's a pretty wide range of approaches to discipline/life with older kids. It sounds like your approach (which frankly is a lot closer to mine than your wife's is) is much more structured, "take charge" than your wife's "go with the flow" kind of approach. Neither one is "better" than the other, but the very fact of the differences is causing tension. It sounds like the two of you need to discuss child rearing philosophies and approaches.

Secondly, I wonder if your wife might be depressed. You're living far from home- is she happy there? A major change in your whole place of living might (or might not) be in order to help her feel more comfortable and happy.

Overall, my advice is to try and stick things out a little bit longer. Many of the issues are directly related to parenting a very young child, and will clear up when you child gets older.If they don't, you can look into ending the relationship at that time- your son will be older and better equipped to handle "Mom's house and Dad's house" transitions.

[jeca]

It sounds like a very hard situation that needs to be handled delicately. In the same breath I have to ask if you have asked your wife is he still wants to be in a relationship with you? I'm sure there has been conversations between you about what you want and your future goals or dreams, are you included in those at all? Is it possible to initiate a date night so you can possible reconnect? You will never hear me say Marriage isn't hard. We've been married 11 years with our first four being the hardest. I actually let him at one point so yes I have been there. I found that if both parties are not committed to the same thing it's pointless. That's where you have to start.

[Limabean1975]

I don't have alot of wisdom for you, but I could not read without posting. I really get the sense from your post that the two of you have lost your way. My DH and I have so many similar issues to you with our slightly different parenting and our nursing 3 year old...but we had 12 years together to build a strong bond before he joined us. I could be totally wrong...but I don't think it's time for you to give up. I really agree with what jeca said (and Ruthla too, I just don't have the experience she does).

What about trying a different couples counsellor? Maybe the one you saw was not the right fit. Maybe it wasn't the right time. Do you know other AP-ish families that you could ask - you need a therapist who understands this core issue for you.

I think too, for steps forward to work, your wife needs to be on board - you need at least the similar goal of working on your relationship. Can you find a time when you can have a heart-to-heart with her? It's delicate - pick the wrong time & the wrong words and she may only take it as a personal attack.

[Murihiku]

Ah marriage. On my bad days I think of it as a "relationship of reciprocal resentment." Sorry you're going through this.

My first question on reading your post is why did the counselling not work out?

Originally Posted by ForMyBoy

what’s wrong with letting your wife know that you think she is sexy? What is wrong with wanting to have a small piece of your life be for “us” as a couple?

Nothing wrong there imo, but what does she say when you ask her the same questions?

[ForMyBoy]

Thanks for the post everyone... I was babbling a lot last night, but from the replies, my thoughts are a little more focused. I will address each of you in different posts.
RUTHLA: I had actually approached the depression issues quite a while ago... I had been reading about PPD that can manifest itself well after childbirth and my wife matched all of the behavioral signs. Being that she is a doula, I was met with “what? Ummm… I’m the expert here, I would know if I had PPD and I don’t”… dismissed. And honestly; my wife does have some sort of officially undiagnosed anxiety disorder… and she is a bit of a hypochondriac… In short, a simple heart palpitation (your heart racing) turns into, “am I dying” or “I am having a heart attack.” What started out with a simple explanation turned into over kill because she allows the reality to disappear and he fear of dying to take over. She’s been to the doctor about these fears… but not the kinds of doctors I think can help. Instead of going to an anxiety specialist, she does to cardio doctors… on three separate occasions she has strapped on a portable EKG for 24 hours to monitor her heart… every time she came out in perfect help… which she is… she doesn’t smoke or drink caffeine.
I would have to say that your assessment of our parenting styles are correct. But, I get no say over that. I am from an abusive home. I’ve been through a lot of bad stuff… I’ve worked through it and I would like to feel that I am a stronger man for it. I am not abusive in anyway. My wife did not grow up in an environment like this. I sometimes feel that she associates stronger discipline with abuse or being mean… It is not comparable… if telling your son calmly that “no you cannot watch one more Backyardigan episode” because it is 10pm is abusive or mean then yes, I am not fit to be a parent.
She also has a tendency of micromanaging our play time. My DS and I play a lot… soccer, pillow fights (which he is obsessed with), block building, matchbox cars. But, you know what? I have a pretty intense job… I work in a US Embassy… it can be pretty high stress, but I don’t bring it home with me… except for maybe being a bit tired. And every day I am greeted by the most beautiful like kid saying “I missed you daddy, do you want to pillow fight with me?” How can you say no to that? But, if I don’t match the level of enthusiasm that my wife has built up in her head she starts saying things like “its okay baby” to DS or she gives me a dirty look and says “what’s your problem”. 9 times out of 10 what happens is “thank god your home… here is DS I am going to surf the internet.”
Personally, I think it is a case of “I am tired of being a stay at home mom”… which is totally cool with me. Please, get out of the house… and there are plenty of jobs spouses in my line of work, so getting her out of the house will not be hard… but I guess what I am saying is that care for our DS has began to feel like shift work rather than a family. When I get home she clocks out… and if she doesn’t like how my DS and I are playing… she “clocks back in” and she let me know how disappointed she is that I couldn’t handle the shift change. This transition normally happens before I close the front door. I understand that being a stay at home mom is hard to… but after work (after work for both of us) should be more team work oriented. I think.
Ruth, that is all for now… I need to get to work.

[gingerbane]

Originally Posted by ForMyBoy

Personally, I think it is a case of “I am tired of being a stay at home mom”… which is totally cool with me. Please, get out of the house… and there are plenty of jobs spouses in my line of work, so getting her out of the house will not be hard… but I guess what I am saying is that care for our DS has began to feel like shift work rather than a family. When I get home she clocks out… and if she doesn’t like how my DS and I are playing… she “clocks back in” and she let me know how disappointed she is that I couldn’t handle the shift change. This transition normally happens before I close the front door. I understand that being a stay at home mom is hard to… but after work (after work for both of us) should be more team work oriented. I think.
Ruth, that is all for now… I need to get to work.

I'm glad you said this because I think this is how my husband feels sometimes too. I do want to get out of the house but I also know that I am the best possible care taker for my LO and feel an absolute responsibility to take up that position. I should be more family and husband oriented though sometimes. Thanks for reminding me what it's like from the other side.

Caitlin

[Limabean1975]

Ditto to Caitlin. Gads, I see myself in that paragraph. Workin' on it. Formyboy- your wife, the one you decided to marry, is still in there somewhere. Really, she is.

[NotTheOnlyOne]

what would she say if you showed her this thread? It might let her see how things look from your side. If I saw that my husband wrote something like this, I would definately take a closer look at how I was handling things.

[jennlyn]

Sometimes women have a hard time separating the facts that they are both a wife and a mother. I wonder how she would feel if the tables were turned and you were the one focusing your attention fully on your child and not on her at all. Would she be happy if she tried to flirt with you and you rejected her advances? I think AP is great if both parents have the same goals in mind, but when the AP gets put ahead of the marital relationship, troubles can occur. Maybe your wife wants to be needed by your son and feels that by nursing him instead of you putting him to bed it is keeping her more connected to him. Yes, little ones do get less needy, but in many families by the time that occurs there is another little one to tend to.

[hollycat]

i think you sound like a great husband and a great guy.

some people do use AP as a way to make their relationship second place.
there is a way of thinking about it where it actually makes the marital relationship stronger, but that takes a specific intent. i personally think children feel very safe with parents who are madly in love, keep that relationship sacred, and have the same ideas of parenting,

as everyone else says, youve got to get to the place with your wife where youre sharing a common goal.

[ForMyBoy]

JECA: That is a very good question. I have been asking myself that very question a lot… I have even asked her that question. She of course says yes, about still wanting to be in a relationship with me. But honestly, it feels like lip service, because it is only a word. Every action she takes towards me is the opposite. Obviously there is no level of intimacy in our house. We are on an every other month average right now… and I hate to admit it… but the only times advances are accepted (after much persistence) has been after 2 in the morning after sharing a bottle of wine. One night I got so fed up with being shot down that I asked her "what is the problem, am I grotesque to you?" What I got from there, out of no where, was an endless diatribe about how she has never been in a relationship with someone who is so needy and codependent and always in need of approval. I was flapped. Where was this coming from? Now, I have been in codependent relationships before. They are not fun… but I do believe that a relationship needs to be rooted in team work. She went on to talk about how I need to learn to be happy for myself and not rely on her so much. WHAT? She is my wife and we have a son together. A lot of my happiness rides on the fact that they are happy and taken care of. Especially is my wife wants to stay at home. I just didn't know what to say about that.



So, Jeca… I don't know… I have set-up dates before. We go out have an okay time… whatever. But, I am tired of it being the only one that seems to care. She makes no effort to spend time with me. I plan everything. Listen, I like strong women, I find it very attractive. I like the fact that my wife was in PeaceCorp… I liked the fact that she was an upwardly mobile professional woman when we met… I never once wanted her to change… she chose to stay home and I supported her. We have talked numerous times about having time together. I have even confided in her that just once I dream of coming home from work to find out that our DS is at a friend's house and that she has rented a movie and has candlelight Chinese take out for two. If that fantasy makes me co-dependent… fine… I am… but this fantasy has never come to fruition. And it never will. Why? Because my wife's interpretation of this desire is that I don't want to spend time with my DS. That I would rather him not be there. This is the kind of ridiculous up hill battle I have been fighting. Never once does she understand that my desire is all about wanting to spend time with her without having to watch Max & Ruby, or be interrupted every five second to explain to what mommy and daddy are talking about… don't get me wrong… I adore that part of my life… but come on… I would really like to spend some time with my wife. Right? I mean we got together for some reason, right? Why is it so unbelievable that I would want to spend time with her… with or without our clothes on?



When our DS bedtime gets skipped… because there isn't one… I think 8:30pm is a reasonable "shut it down" bedtime… I get a little offended. I don't get offended by the fact that our little man doesn't want to go to bed and wants to stay up with us… I get offended by how easily my wife gives up our time together. And at the same time, I am raked through the coals for not doing anything about it… but when I do, I have made out for being the bad guy. I don't do well with catch 22's.



Anyway, I am babbling… I will stop for now.

[ForMyBoy]

LIMABEAN & MUKIHIKU: Well, in regards to the counseling. I thought it was good. We both liked the counselor… but I think my wife always aired on the side of "my husband is the one that needs help, I am fine." So, again, counseling was a lot of lip service and no action after the fact. And to be honest, there is only so much a guy can do before he gives up… so we would be given things to work on… I would work on them… not always successful, but at least becoming more conscious… and I would not feel that she would reciprocate. It became very difficult. Sometime she would cancel last minute, and tell me to go ahead without her, that it would be good for me. And I knew what she was doing… again, she thought I needed the help, not "we" needed the help. Sometime I would have to cancel for work related issues and she would insist on cancelling the entire appointment.



I know this will sound pretty cheesy, but it is something that came up in counseling and it may put things in perspective about our two personalities. Ever 6th of the month (give or take) on the anniversary of the day we met I give my wife a Lonely Planet travel book. A little piece of the world… get it? Cheesy I know… but it's nice to have cheesy little things like that. I started doing this on the first birthday of hers that we were together for by giving her a book for each month we had been together previous to that… and the books have been going strong every since. This is well before we ever thought we would actually be traveling the world together. Now, about two years ago on my birthday by wife gave me Casablanca with a note attached. "If you can name what this movie is number 2 of… you will receive on of the rest each month." I was like "duh, Casablanca is number 2 on the AFI top 100 movies list. I am a huge movie buff and I thought the gift was awesome. The idea of getting a movie each month sounded like a lot of fun… my wife had not seen most of the movies on the AFI list and it would be great to share them with her. Well, in the last two years I have received three of the movies… well… one of the movies wasn't even on the list. Anyway… it came out in counseling that she doesn't think it is a big deal. So what? On the other hand, I don't think people should make commitments that they do intend following through on. As petty as this story may sounds it is best way for me to describe how our relationship works. I feel that I am expendable in her eyes.

[ForMyBoy]

MUKIHIKU: In reference to "us time". I find it very strange. Most of the time she just rolls her eyes. A couple times a while back she told me that I was making her uncomfortable when I flirted with her… that I was treating her like a slut and only wanted to have sex with her all the time. I might add that at this time… or anytime since then… we were most definitely not having sex. I am simply a playful person… and I should be able to hug, kiss, and compliment my wife whenever I want right? I am not trying to be barbaric, but I'm also not intending there to naked time every time I flirt with my wife… okay, I am a guy so I'll admit that I like the possibility of naked time when I flirt in nice, but it is not law. Anyway, when I flirt it is normally meet with a roll of eyes, a grunt… and never reciprocated. The act of hugging me back or kissing me back must be very painful to her.



I also have to admit one other thing. My wife once told me that if I ever bought her anything sexy to wear, that she would wear it for me… I have… both under and outer garments. Literally, months have gone by… and she behaves as if I had never gotten her anything. Why would a woman even open the door to something like that… and have no intention of following through? It has been three years. I am not a monk… I never intended to become one. Our son is three and very well adjusted… it is time for my wife and I to start dating again… but she has no interest. Or so it seems.

[ForMyBoy]

EVERYONE: Well, now that I have caught up on some emails regarding the tough question that were still unanswered from some of you early repliers… and having probably over shared… which is one of my many fault… I can move on. Thank you to everyone on your show of support, thus far. It has been a while since I have checked the board… internet access is touch and go in my time zone. But a couple of things have happened since my last post… which was… what? Thursday morning? Well, my previous three posts were all written that Thursday afternoon will on lunch break… although, I tend to suffer from writers regret, I felt it was necessary to post them anyway. For the sake of the theropy.
Well, I also ended up talking with a female friend and colleague of mine (same time zone, different country) who also seems to have the over sharing flaw and knows my wife (we were all in training together). Between talking with her and writing to mothering… I was able to work through a lot of the hostility and workout a game plan. I have always kind of gone with the flow in my relationship… I’m pretty easy going and a “whatever makes you happy” kind of guy. Which can be frustrating sometimes, because I think my wife has gotten used to that too much and when I try to exert myself, it completely throws her for a loop. Anyway, my friend advised me to start being firm in my opinions when it came to the family. Yes, I think AP is great. I don’t mind that our DS still sleeps in our room. I do however mind that he is three years old and we still have to lay with him for an hour plus to get him to sleep… and that he has to nurse to do so. Why do I mind? Because I have had almost zero time with my wife in three years. Son, I love you, but it is your dad’s turn again. And don’t get me wrong… I hate using the term “turns”. But it is truer than you know. Not by my choice… but by my wife choice… She has a single focus. And frankly, I have seen way to many episodes of SuperNanny where parents are laying with their kids until the fall asleep until they are nine and ten years old. I am so scared that we are on that path.
So… here is my update. On Thursday, I decided it was time to tackle the bedtime issues. I set two alarms on my phone: 8pm and 8:30pm. My basic idea was to try and keep us on a schedule. At 8pm active play stops. We move onto quite time… take a bath, watch on last show, read books. The goal is to be ready to go to bed when the second alarm at 8:30pm goes off. I did not go home and make a decree that this is the new rule… I just went with the flow of the evening. I also tried my best to keep everyone in the same room. When my wife was in the kitchen… I always made sure that our DS’s water cup was in the kitchen… so when he got thirsty during our soccer games in the other room… we had to go to the kitchen to take our breaks and we could all talk about how DS is becoming a great soccer player together. Just before the 8pm alarm went off my wife decided it was bath time for DS. Being that the house we are in right now has a very large bathroom, I decided that we should all go. In the bathtub DS is pretty independent in his play… so it gave us time to chit-chat and what not. Talk about the day. When the alarm went off my wife was like what was that? I simply says “time for quite play, we’re on schedule.” She either ignored me or went along with it… I don’t know… she didn’t acknowledge my comment. Anyway, when the second alarm went off we were just getting DS in his PJs and easily transitioned him into bed. We both read him books and he was asleep by 9:15ish.
Now… all the things I have said about my wife so far… she did surprise me for the first time on Saturday. She arranged for a sitter and we went out for dinner. So, I feel a little bad about some of the things I have said about her not taking the initiative in our together time. So, yeah it was nice… but at the same time there is something very wrong with our relationship… we didn’t hold hands at all… we didn’t cuddle or walk arm and arm in the cold winter air… we didn’t even kiss. It was like we were battling the entire night. She wanted to rush to dinner and get home. Personally… I have been cooped up in the office since I got here. We’re in stickin’ Belgrade! We took a taxi to the major pedestrian walk… and I was in awe. The awe of course marred by the time table on our outing. This was the first time we had been out just the two of us for about 6 months… we were home by 8:30pm. The only nice thing about getting home at that time is that we were able to get DS in bed and asleep before 9pm. The schedule was working! After that we stayed up talking… but our relationship has turned from lovers to platonic friends.
So, the schedule for DS is working… until tonight. Maybe it was the fact we had a lazy Sunday… but we got him to bed around 8pm… my wife kind of jumped the gun on the quite play time… and I am impressed that she didn’t give up. At about 9:30 she came out asking for some help. DS was inconsolable. Begging to be allowed to watch TV. This is TV thing is getting to be a problem. But I held fast. Wife came back in…nursed him… they sang the itsy bitsy spider and then DS asked if he could sleep in the big bed rather than the twin we have in the corner for him… and that was that. They are both asleep.
And I am hear writing this.
You know… I am trying… I know I am not the best at things… and I am not write all the time… but there are some issues that I don’t understand and that bug me… and I would love some insight.
A.My wife is not generally nice to me. She is hyper critical all of the time… I can’t stand being around her a lot of the time… the stress is driving me to want to take up smoking again. Example… I got so fed up listening to her criticize what I was wearing to go to work that I finally through my hands up, “if you don’t like it then by all means you pick out what I wear ahead of time and I will put it on… but if you don’t, then I get to choose and not hear a word about it.” So, most of the time, I have clothes laid out for me… but when she forgets and sees that I have put something on myself she jumps all over me… I get very annoyed and she isn’t very nice about it… saying things like I have no style and that what I wear is ugly. Now, this happened tonight. I laid out clothes for myself for tomorrow… the thrashing began… but, I swear to god, the outfit I picked out was one she once put together for me and that she used to say she liked when I would where it all the time at my old job in the states. Maddening!
B.Secondly, she has a tendency to be over critical or in my opinion say pretty overly critical things to me or about me at dinner parties. You know… I don’t always speak perfectly… and I might misspeak… everyone does… but instead of simply correcting my brain fart or supporting me she has gotten in the habit of saying very off color things and making a production of making me look or sound stupid. A couple of times this has happened when I didn’t misspeak… and I had to clarify what I said to a circle of people for my wife benefit. I give her looks when she does this… and she always says “what? I’m just giving you a hard time.” A couple of times I’ve said something to the affect of, “maybe I would have found the humor in that if you treated me better in private.”
Anyway… I am still trying to work a lot of this out. One other important piece of information a fact behind my new job. This is her dream job… the one that I now have. She was studying and working towards doing this before we met. She was the world travels… honestly… I was an actor. But about two years ago we were not getting any closer to joining the Foreign service… my wife was dragging her feet… so I bite the bullet and applied… and got in… I think I am dealing with a bit of jealousy on top of a lot of the other issues between us.
Anyway, it is late… and I look forward to hearing from you all.

[Murihiku]

I think your marriage could survive disagreements about parenting, or even difficulties over sex. To me, the issue would be this:

Originally Posted by ForMyBoy

Sometime she would cancel last minute, and tell me to go ahead without her, that it would be good for me. And I knew what she was doing… again, she thought I needed the help, not "we" needed the help. Sometime I would have to cancel for work related issues and she would insist on cancelling the entire appointment.

If one person really thinks the other is the only one that needs counselling, then that's a real problem (unless one person is abusive or addicted to something).

I think you should find out your legal rights and responsibilities in case of separation/divorce and then sit down with your wife and find out if she:

is happy and wants to stay married
is unhappy but wants to stay married anyway
is unhappy but wants to stay married, but to work on changing things
is unhappy and wants to separate

And you need to know what you want and if you are both on the same page.
That's going to be very hard, so you have my sympathies.

Good luck!

[JJ'sMom]

Any progress in a marriage is slow. Especially if you are the one tracking the progress.

Happily, you are making progress. Keep up with the bed times and make another date - even if it is just an hour for coffee. You both need to reconnect after three years of letting things slide - you are ready to, but she may resist for a while...kinda like pre-dating again. I know 'cus DH and I were there just a little while ago. Remind yourself that it took three years to get here, it will not turn around in one week.

All the best,

Julia

[Britishmum]

It seems to me that the door opened a little when your wife arranged a date night. To expect to go from 0 to 70 in one night seems a little unrealistic. If I were her, I'd be looking for some really great feedback. Forget that it wasn't overly romantic, or that she rushed back. Honestly, when my kids were that age, I wanted to rush back too, even if I was having a good time. Just to check on them. Of course, I got back, breathed, then wished I hadn't rushed, but mama instinct tends to leave you on edge when your kids are that young. Or at least, it did for me.

I'd try following it up with some positive feedback. Can you arrange something similar for next week? Don't expect her to want to stay out late. Maybe even make that a part of the plan. Tell her, "Honey, I know you find it hard to relax when ds is with a sitter, so lets' go somewhere close to home, with fast service," etc, to show that you understand how it is for her.

Then be pleased with any progress. Don't look at the negatives - we didnt' hold hands, walk arm in arm, etc. Look at the fact that you went out, and that you didn't fight.

Re the sexy clothes, there is a world of difference between saying you'd wear them, and actually wearing them, imo. How's her body image since having a baby? I know that I'd feel uncomfortable in some of the things I used to wear - even if they still fitted. My weight isn't very different, but my body sure as heck is. I"m comfortable with that, but she may not be. And even though I"m comfortable inwardly, I don't want to dress as I did. And it would piss me off if dh expected me too. Maybe it's the same for your wife too. And if she's not in close communication with you right now, it would probably feel downright weird to suddenly greet you at the door in a negligee.

Having a nursing 3 yo myself, I can really identify with the feeling of not wanting anyone else being needy in your life. I'm not saying that you are, but maybe that's how it feels to her. Sometimes I have to pull myself up, because at the end of the day, the last thing I want is someone else touching me.

I can also agree with you logically that she should not have to put ds to bed every night, but I know myself that if I miss that moment with my 3 yo, I yearn for it. I want his snuggles, his soft hair, and those moments with him. After a hard, hard day dealing with poop, tantrums, messes, and housecleaning, those are the moments that I cherish. Maybe your dw feels the same? Maybe it's a precious thing for her, and it's hard to let go of that protective feeling that it's her job. Because no matter what we rationalize, our hormones can give us very different messages.

I really think that you guys have a lot to work on, but that it can be done. I feel for your wife, being so far from home. I've done it, and it's tough. It's isolating, and sometimes you can bury yourself in your mother role because it's the only place you feel secure and comfortable. And interference in that role feels irritating.

Do you have to stay in Europe much longer? Can you ask her what she wants? Travelling is one thing, staying away from home with a young family is quite another. Does she need a visit home to recharge? Does she need you to be planning a date for a full time move home? Does she at least need to talk about it and feel that she has input? I'm throwing ideas out there, and not accusing you of anything, by the way.

Please don't split up your family without trying to work through this. Be patient, but be proactive. There is a world of difference between caring for a 3 yo and a 5 yo. With hard work on both your parts, and time, things may well change radically for the better. I sincerely hope that it works out for you.

[PGTlatte]

Your wife sounds resentful and angry. There is nothing wrong with voicing your needs and feelings of being neglected etc, but in her current state, that may go nowhere and would probably antagonize her more, and end up with her taking more of that out on you.

If she is feeling isolated, trapped, powerless to change anything in her world right now, and drained from meeting your DS's needs, you may come across as just another set of demands on her, which would only build more resentment.

I would suggest a focus on what she wants or what would make her happy, both little things and big things. She may not even be aware of what those things might be. She may have felt like her own wants don't even matter for so long that she's sort of switched them off. But of course that doesn't work and only ends up as resentment later on.

I would ask her how you can help. Sometimes I have very specific things I would like my DH to help with. When he starts doing random things that I didn't have in mind, I can get really irritated...but when he asks "how can I help" and is then willing to do exactly what I ask, right then, I love that.

I would also let her know that you see she is unhappy. And you want to help. Not because you have your own needs and her meeting them in mind, because that could feel really manipulative. But because you love her and want her to be happy.

There is nothing wrong with your desires and wanting them to be met in your marriage. But if she has all her own feelings piled on top of her right now, she may feel like she can barely breathe, and taking care of another person emotionally is just another chore at that point. If she is as unhappy and angry as she sounds, IMO something will have to improve with that before she can contribute to your relationship like you want her to.

[ForMyBoy]

MURIHIKU: I have to agree with you. We have talked about staying together and she says that she is happy… but everything else about her actions says that she is not. I'm not sure… I'm trying to ride it out.





JJ'SMOM: I hear you. I'm just feeling that I am trying to steer a canoe all by myself here. Have you been canoeing? You have to have two people. My wife has a paddle… but she's not even dipping it in the water. If she doesn't dip it in the water there isn't much I can do except row in a circle. How do you get to the point where she realizes that she needs to put the paddle in the water?



BRITISHMUM: Well, we have another outing this weekend… I call it an outing because it is definitely not a date… but it is a night out (which is how we spend most of our time away from our DS) with other people. We're going to a Christmas party. I was shocked when I hear her mention her plan to straighten up the guest room for our sitter. She said that she told the sitter we'll be home around midnight, so if she gets tired she can just spend the night. I was like "wonderful". But this is how it always is… if other people are involved, she's ready to have a great time… if it is alone time with me, it is all business. Frankly, it gets kind of old. But, what can you do?



As for her body… I know that is having self doubt issues… although she was one of the mothers everyone hates… she was all baby and was immediately back to here pre-birth self in no time. My wife is a good looking woman. Although, I think she has forgotten that. As for my expectations? Of course I have them… but not to the level of a cinema movie. Although I hold some resentment of being set-up. Yes, I feel that way. It goes back to having my wife volunteer the idea of me buying things for here… and then telling me that I make her feel like a slut when I flirt with here. It is all very bi-polar if you ask me. So, yeah, at this point I would rather be greeted at the door with a pizza, beer and a James Bond movie... for a night in without our DS… rather than a scantily clad wife… although I wouldn't tell her to cover up either.



As for the bedtime hormones. That I understand. I really do. But what you described was someone the yearns for that connection. My wife behaves like it is some chore… and sometimes behaves as though it is my fault for not giving her a night off… and not to sound insensitive… but if I had the boobs DS wanted, I would be more than happy. Certain decisions were made when we decided to co-sleep and breastfeed… and now there are certain consequences. If it is something that you yearn to do, great. But if not… it is time to wean.



As for Europe… we haven't been here long… and we will be here for two years. After that… we'll be somewhere else for two years. We were not very close to our families in the States… either emotional or in proximity to, depending on who we are talking about. Our families either unreliable, self-centers, or a mess. So, we have always depended on each other. I said in a previous post that this overseas life was my wife's idea from the beginning. A family doesn't join the Foreign Service to move back to the states… anyway, I am in a financial commitment to the Service right now… if we leave, we have to payback all of their training costs, per diems, airfare… everything. It would ruin us. An honestly, I have never had a more fulfilling job. I love it. My wife just hasn't gotten into the groove… there is a very large community of family's with kids here… yet she skips play groups that she is invited too.