Fetal tissue

[ians_mommy]

Does anyone know which vaxes contain fetal tissue?

Background:
We vaxed on schedule at 2 mo and then I found MDC and did some reading. We then planned to do a delayed vax sxchedule. My wonderful, very easy-going Ped asked me to at least do the HIB at 9 mo (which we did) and we have not done anymore...DS is 12.5 mo.

I have done more reading (recently Cave & Mitchell) and have decided we will be a no-vax family.

DS is not yet school age, so an exemption isn't necessary, but I wanted to bring my own exemption letter to his 15mo WBV. Although our Ped has been wonderful, I think it would make it easier on all of us if something "formal" was in my sons record.

The state of NC recognizes medical and religious exemption only. I am catholic, and although the Catholic Church does not have a position on vaccines, they have a very strong position against abortion. I was planning on using this argument in my letter (even though there are many more reasons I am opposed to vaxes).

I do not want to look foolish if fetal tissue is no longer used in the production of vaxes. Knowing which ones specifically would help.

[1littlebit]

i *think* that your religion doesn't particularly matter. they have to accept it if you say you are refusing for religious reasons. i dont think they can explore it past that. others will know more about it than i do.

you can do a search for exemptions .. there are a ton of threads around here.. we don't vax anymore either so i have been reading up lol.

[ians_mommy]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

i *think* that your religion doesn't particularly matter. they have to accept it if you say you are refusing for religious reasons. i dont think they can explore it past that. others will know more about it than i do.

I am certain you are right. I just dont want to say "for religious reasons" without being able to honeslty explain myself KWIM?? The thing I have liked the most about my Ped is he engages me in intellectual exchange and having the correct information really helps!

[1littlebit]

yeah of course.. but wouldn't saying it is because of the fetal tissue only explain why you are refusing those? i don't meant to nitpick but if you are going to try and explain more then he actually needs to know you want to have all your bases covered.

[alegna]

You don't want anything along that line of thinking in writing. B/c it's not valid for a religious exemption.

You have to object to the practice of vaccination, not individual vaccine ingredients.

-Angela

[1littlebit]

plus.. i'm pretty sure the Vatican's position on fetal cells in vaccines is that as long as they are in them it is your decision whether or not to get them but you should fight to have them stop using aborted fetal cells. not that they would look into it that much.. but just incase you were interested lol.

[ians_mommy]

Originally Posted by alegna

You don't want anything along that line of thinking in writing. B/c it's not valid for a religious exemption.

You have to object to the practice of vaccination, not individual vaccine ingredients.

-Angela

Okay, I see what you are saying. I guess I got caught up on the "specifics" because the NC law states, "if the bona fide religious beliefs of the parent...are contrary to immunization requirements". I guess I thought I had to explain what specifically was my religious exemption...especially since I consented to the 2 mo vaccines plus another HIB.

[ians_mommy]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

plus.. i'm pretty sure the Vatican's position on fetal cells in vaccines is that as long as they are in them it is your decision whether or not to get them but you should fight to have them stop using aborted fetal cells. not that they would look into it that much.. but just incase you were interested lol.

So in a sense that supports my position
Like I said, the fetal tissues are just one piece of the pie. I really am ust worried that claiming a religious exemption is going to get challenged since I consented earlier.

[1littlebit]

nah .. you could have changed religions since then .

just tell him the absolute bare minimum. its against our religion. bona fide religious beliefs? shoot i could worship a a bright red sneaker and i don't think they could tell me its not a bona fide religion. i am not even sure they are allowed to ask... and i know they can't make you 'prove' anything. they can try.. but i don't think they have a leg to stand on. it is religious discrimination.

[1littlebit]

this thread might help!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=nc+vax

[ians_mommy]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

nah .. you could have changed religions since then .

just tell him the absolute bare minimum. its against our religion. bona fide religious beliefs? shoot i could worship a a bright red sneaker and i don't think they could tell me its not a bona fide religion. i am not even sure they are allowed to ask... and i know they can't make you 'prove' anything. they can try.. but i don't think they have a leg to stand on. it is religious discrimination.

you rock!
and your funny...

[spero]

Originally Posted by ians_mommy

Does anyone know which vaxes contain fetal tissue?

Here is the full list.

DS is not yet school age, so an exemption isn't necessary, but I wanted to bring my own exemption letter to his 15mo WBV. Although our Ped has been wonderful, I think it would make it easier on all of us if something "formal" was in my sons record.

You don't need an exemption for the doctor. They'll probably request that you sign a "Refusal to Vaccinate" form for their files - which is a whole other can of worms (search it here). We were recently "fired" by a ped practice b/c I refused to sign the stupid thing.

The state of NC recognizes medical and religious exemption only. I am catholic, and although the Catholic Church does not have a position on vaccines, they have a very strong position against abortion. I was planning on using this argument in my letter (even though there are many more reasons I am opposed to vaxes).

As Angela noted, that wouldn't be a wise idea. Religious exemption means that you must be opposed to the PRACTICE of vaccination, period. If you say, "I am opposed to X, Y, and Z vaccines because they are made with aborted fetal tissue," that is considered philosophical exemption and it will likely be denied.

Originally Posted by alegna

You don't want anything along that line of thinking in writing. B/c it's not valid for a religious exemption.

You have to object to the practice of vaccination, not individual vaccine ingredients.

Originally Posted by ians_mommy

Okay, I see what you are saying. I guess I got caught up on the "specifics" because the NC law states, "if the bona fide religious beliefs of the parent...are contrary to immunization requirements". I guess I thought I had to explain what specifically was my religious exemption...especially since I consented to the 2 mo vaccines plus another HIB.

If they question that, you can simply state that your beliefs have changed since you consented to some vaccines.

Actually, it's better NOT to be too specific in a religious exemption statement. Keep it simple and broad - honestly, I wouldn't even mention that you're Catholic.

Originally Posted by ians_mommy

I really am ust worried that claiming a religious exemption is going to get challenged since I consented earlier.

Just say that your beliefs have changed. There's no way for them to prove you wrong.

[ians_mommy]

Thanks Spero...very helpful advice.
I almost made my life much more difficult than it need be eh?!

[1littlebit]

: i hope i helped.

if for some reason i have no choice but to see an allopathic physician my standard approach is less is more. i tell them what the need to know and thats it. Odds are i know more about vax, nutrition, and actually getting and staying healthy then they do... so their opinions and advice are unnecessary and unwanted... if they do feel inclined to share i redirect the conversation back to why we are there. if you don't vax well baby visits are pointless so we are only there if we absolutely have to be. if they push i ask for unbiased studies that support their opinion... depending on the subject that could take awhile.

ds is 10 months and we just found a great doctor who is totally supportive of our decisions... before this i just smiled and nodded a lot.

[SinginMamaTo2]

We're in NC and we are vax-free. I just typed out the NC statute word for word, signed it and handed it to DS school sec. (when he was going to school, we HS now so not an issue). Not one word was ever said to me.
I did the same thing at the dr. office.
Now, at our last check up for DD the dr. asked me if I was opposed to my child being "poked with a needle." :His words! I just clearly said "no, it goes far beyond the discomfort of a needle jab. It is our religious belief not to vax!" HE changed the subject - quickly - to how healthy and advanced DD is! haha
They are NOT constitutionally allowed to question your religious belief! Though A LOT of medical and school 'professionals' don't know that! Once you become more confident in your decision (not that you're not) you will be able to verbally make your point!
But as far as the actual exemption form, use only the bare minimum. That's why I like the NC Statute. Just putting the statute number at the top of the letter makes them a little more aware of OUR rights!

Forgot to mention that we're Catholic as well. It's just never come up what religion we are - because it's nobody's business!

[dlm194]

My 4 year old is in Catholic school and we are members of the parish so there is no doubt about our religion. I vaxed her on schedule until it was time for chicken pox. Then I started questioning the vaccines and discovered that chicken pox was made from embryonic stem cells. Rubella is made from an aborted fetus (she already had MMR but I am going to titer her instead of getting the 2nd dose which is legal in my state). My 1 year has not had Hep B and she will not get rubella or chicken pox. I wrote a letter to my 4 year's old school stating that she will not get any vax that may encourage sexual promiscuity or that is made from processes that we find morally objectionable.

Obviously, that means we selectively vax and the school was okay with that. It doesn't work for all vaccines but I found a doctor who is okay with selectively vaxing and not doing more than 2 at a time so I'm okay with taking a long time to get the other vaxes for my 1 year old.

One of the previous posts links to a thread with the Children of God for Life site which has all the info about vaccines and their sources. It also contains a letter from American Bishops which basically says it up to the parent on whether or not to give the objectionable vaxes.

[spero]

Originally Posted by dlm194

It also contains a letter from American Bishops which basically says it up to the parent on whether or not to give the objectionable vaxes.

It's a crying shame that some Catholic schools won't honor that choice.

[kriket]

Can someone post me a link that isn't religious and isn't so... "shock factor" about aborted fetal cells? Maybe I have the wool over my eyes, but I still find it hard to believe. There are legal and ethical places to get stem cells like cord blood and bone marrow. (I don't care either way, I've decided not to vax, I'm just curious for the sake of curious)

[spero]

Uh, the vaccine manufacturers don't hide the fact that these cell lines are used. You can start with the package inserts. Then you can research fetal cell lines WI-38, MRC-5, RA273, VA4, HEK-293, and PER C6 (those used in vaccines manufacture) for yourself.

[kriket]

I found this am i reading it correctly that these vaxes were developed with one aborted fetus? (well, three and the probably the other 3 that sepro mentioned) When I read other things it gives me the impression that there are fetal cells in the vax that is being injected.

P.S. thats a really good site. I think I am going to bookmark it.

I cannot stress enough that I don't care, and I don't vax, I just want to know for the sake of knowing!