1 in 10 doctors not vaxing because why?

[Boobs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081201/..._vaccines_cost

Hmm....very interesting.

[PaigeC]

Very interesting! Thanks for posting. I thought this quote was particularly telling:

"For us to give up vaccines would hurt our core business because that's why kids come in,"

[chambom]

Money drives everything...


Can anyone comment on the 89-91 measles "outbreak"?

[DeannaK]

The first study was based on a mail-in survey last year of nearly 1,300 pediatricians and family physicians; nearly 800 responded.
About half said they had delayed buying at least one vaccine because of the cost. Roughly one in five said they felt strongly that reimbursement for the purchase and administration of vaccines was not adequate.
The second survey asked doctors what they paid for vaccines and how much they were reimbursed by private insurers. It was answered by 76 doctors in five states, representing about 20 percent of those asked to participate. Many contracts prevent doctors from talking about their spending and reimbursement for vaccinations, Freed said.

Such a tiny group of doctors to generate this headline, in my opinion. They weren't only contacting pediatricians, but general practitioners.

Obviously there was a huge difference in the response from Peds who have their "well visits" clients than general practitioners (as Paige, quoted above).

Very interesting.

[PaigeC]

Info about the 89-90 outbreak:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1022280

[Ruthla]

Another reason we need a Single Payer system in the USA. Whether you beleive vaccines are a good idea or not, it's scary that vaccine's financial concerns are driving vaccination attitudes. I think doctors should get reimbursed for the vaccines they give, including administrative costs- not lose money per dose and not make a huge profit.

Sure, it would be nice if all doctors decided vaccines were too expensive and stopped giving them, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.

And not all of us have the option of choosing a Family Practitioner rather than a pediatrician. I'm on Medicaid HMO, and we get a specific list of doctors to choose from. Most of the "primary care doctors" are either pediatricians or internists (adult doctors.) The handful listed as "family practitioners" are either internists who will see 16 and 17yos, or pediatricians who will see 18-21yos.

I do pay out of pocket for chiropractic, but I can't afford to pay out of pocket for my "backup conventional doctor"- if something major happens (like a child needing oxygen and an X ray in the dr's office before being sent via ambulence to the hospital for pneumonia) I need that to be covered 100%.

[pantufla]

The other problem with this survey (IMO) is that it didn't seem to figure in the cost of the "exam" that takes place before the shot.

[AllyRae]

It makes sense... Our ped can't order the broken up MMR vaccines because it's just too expensive. As in thousands of dollars. So, because they don't *have* to carry that one, they don't.

But it makes me wonder why all of the profit is going to the pharma companies and the doctors aren't seeing much...

ETA: I remember seeing a bill from one of the kid's vaccines though--they do make up the costs on the less expensive vaccines though. We were charged separate fees for the vaccine, the administration of the vaccine, the exam, and something else--I can't remember what it was, but it was vaccine related. So while they don't get reimbursed much for the actual vaccine, they can and do make money by tacking on other charges...

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

I
But it makes me wonder why all of the profit is going to the pharma companies and the doctors aren't seeing much...

I've thought about this, too. I also wonder why insurance companies aren't up in arms over the matter. You'd think they'd benefit from keeping vax prices in check. On paper at least, you'd think that because they have to shell out for vaxes and other meds, they'd be constant adversaries to Big Pharma.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by pantufla

The other problem with this survey (IMO) is that it didn't seem to figure in the cost of the "exam" that takes place before the shot.

And all the side effects that keeps bringing the child back to the ped after the shots. Unvaccinated kids need to go to doctors much less.

Originally Posted by Turquesa

I've thought about this, too. I also wonder why insurance companies aren't up in arms over the matter. You'd think they'd benefit from keeping vax prices in check. On paper at least, you'd think that because they have to shell out for vaxes and other meds, they'd be constant adversaries to Big Pharma.

Insurance companies are another arm of big pharma.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Insurance companies are another arm of big pharma.

So I'm told. Maybe I'm too obtuse about these things, but wouldn't it benefit insurance companies if Pharma didn't price gouge so much? After all, insurance has to cover all of Pharma's snake oil . . .

Also, I'm bumping this up because one of my favorite sites has a great spin on the OP's news story.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by pantufla

The other problem with this survey (IMO) is that it didn't seem to figure in the cost of the "exam" that takes place before the shot.

But the exam would likely take place whether the shot is given or not. Nor is an exam an absolute requirement of a vaccination.

I delayed all vaccines for DS until he was nearly 3 and enrolled in preschool. It took me most of the school year to get him "caught up" on vaccines- I'd take him in about once a month and he got 1 or 2 shots (up to 4 different vaccines) per visit. He didn't need to see the dr every month; he had his annual checkup in August or September and then he only saw the nurse at subsequent visits.

[DeannaK]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

But the exam would likely take place whether the shot is given or not. Nor is an exam an absolute requirement of a vaccination.

Depends on the Ped. I think most require an exam. Ours does for sure. And I would be a little worried if a ped would just administer vaxes without doing basic checks prior to giving shots.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by DeannaK

Depends on the Ped. I think most require an exam. Ours does for sure. And I would be a little worried if a ped would just administer vaxes without doing basic checks prior to giving shots.

We can get vax's around here with a "nurse visit". No check up, just shots.

[1littlebit]

i just had an hour long conversation with my doctor about this. she said a few of the practices in our area do not offer vaccines because of the cost. she also said that while she does still offer them it is getting very expensive. she breaks even or loses money with vaccines and it is very expensive. she's cool with me not vaxing... i think because my approach to vax is way more level headed then hers. when it comes up she always talks about how she worked in a hospital before the meningitis vax and how many kids died or had permanent effects. i think she realizes its an emotional response.. sense she agrees with my reasons for not vaxing. lol

[Gitti]

Absolutely Unherdof blogged about this subject last week.

Here it is - http://unherdof.wordpress.com/2008/1...war-continues/

Well, my young cynicism is simply shining through at the moment because I feel like this is totally manufactured. If I had a dollar for every time I witnessed a provaccine robot say that doctors don’t make money on vaccines I’d be on the beach with an umbrella in my drink. The article goes on to say that many physicians had no idea they were being reimbursed so little - most successful business plans don’t stumble upon this morsel of information after they open their doors, and by accident at that. Could we be setting up the hysteria created by the thought of having no vaccines because they’ve pulled them? Pfft.

[jakesmama]

So during the 89-91 measles outbreak a little over 1% died...help me out here, is that a lot or a little given statistic info for vpd's? Thanks!

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by jakesmama

So during the 89-91 measles outbreak a little over 1% died...help me out here, is that a lot or a little given statistic info for vpd's? Thanks!

I don't see where it says 1% I see -

During 1988 through 1990, California experienced its worst measles epidemic in more than a decade, with 16,400 reported cases, 3,390 hospital admissions, and 75 deaths.

That was 0.4%.

Not all children are healthy to start out with and some may have been on chemo or had other underlaying issues such as stressful lives, lousy nutrition and lack of vitamin A and C.

The epidemic centered in a low-income Hispanic community. The parents were at the mercy of the doctors, who I am sure made them feel incompetent.
Interference in the natural progression of the disease, such as fever reducing medication, is totally contradictory in the treatment of measles.

I wonder how many of the 16,400 kids were saved from a life long autoimmune diseases for not being vaccinated? I bet that is higher than 0.4%.

[jakesmama]

I see. I was looking at the article where it stated that the 89-91 outbreak had 11000 cases with 100+ deaths. Without more detail I really don't see how that information is significant (except to 'shock' readers). It says nothing about where, age, overall health, etc.

Thanks for the stats from the other. That offers quite a bit more info. I agree that many people now have the gift of life long immunity, but of course no one is doing aa study on that because it owuldn't be profitable.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood

We can get vax's around here with a "nurse visit". No check up, just shots.

Our insurance won't pay for vax unless it is at a scheduled WBV time. You can't go in every 4 weeks and get a vax with them. You must go at the 4 week, 8 week, 4 month, etc visits the immunization schedule is set on. So that is really nice for parents who want to delay vax or spread them out