Preparing to be around a Dingo/pitbull - Page 2

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

however, i will stand by my statement. a 2.5 year old child can follow the rule - "leave the dog alone" - especially if mom is paying attention. dogs and children can live together quite well, but it takes training on both sides - dog and child - to acheive this.

Well... yeah. Kids and dogs can live together just fine. But there's a learning curve. THIS dog is not used to living with kids. And this kid is not used to living with this dog.

My dd is EXTRAORDINARILY good with animals. Really. It's freaky. She knew to hold out the back of her hand well before 2. I hadn't taught her. BUT, put her with a new-to-her dog with behaviors she's not used to and she can do some things that could put her in danger with some dogs. And she's over 4 yrs old now.

I don't think a 2.5yr old can in any way be adequately prepped to be *safe* around a dog.

And yes, it is unreasonable for someone to be unwilling to restrain a dog when they have a visiting toddler.

I lock up my CATS when we have visiting kids.

-Angela

[LifeIZBeautiful]

Originally Posted by laila2

My brother has a well behaved dingo/pitbull female. However she did give a warning snap when my two year old pestered her at Thanksgiving, not an actual bite, but near.

We are planning a vacation to visit and hang around in the house in February, and want to start guiding our son towards how to be around dogs. He is 2.5 yr old. Any great ideas?

We knew this may happen, and it put us on gaurd full time at Thanksgiving, and we want to feel more comfortable. My brother is really stubborn about not putting the dog out. We in turn like to visit so want to make it work if we can.

Not a good sign AT ALL. If the dog is snapping, the dog thinks it is above the child. The dog should be on a very short leash when near the children.

"The dingo stole my baby..." sound familiar? I'd be very leary.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

however, i will stand by my statement. a 2.5 year old child can follow the rule - "leave the dog alone" - especially if mom is paying attention. dogs and children can live together quite well, but it takes training on both sides - dog and child - to acheive this.
.

The problem with this isn't whether or not a 2.5 year old can follwo the rules. Some may be able to, some not. Most, though, are not perfect, and tend to break said rules, at some point. And the consequences for breaking the rule could be deadly. Would you say to someone, "explain to your 2.5 year old she shouldn't go in the swimming pool"? She's old enought o know better, so tell her the rule, and that's that. No. You would not leave her near a swimming pool unattended. Especially not one with teeth. I think the dog should be put in a nother room while you're visiting, op. If not, I would stay at a hotel and visit there. Imagine how terrible everyone would feel if the dog did maim or kill your daughter.

[ledzepplon]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

however, i will stand by my statement. a 2.5 year old child can follow the rule - "leave the dog alone" - especially if mom is paying attention. dogs and children can live together quite well, but it takes training on both sides - dog and child - to acheive this.

I don't mean to harp on you, but my kids (2.5 and 4.5) really could not follow these rules consistently. My brother's gf often brings her 3 small dogs to our house, and I have to follow them everywhere because my two can't seem to understand when the dogs need space. I think the best rule is to always be right there with your child.

[mamazee]

A two-year-old will understand the rule, but they have very little impulse control and love dogs. It is not fair to expect that a 2-year-old is absolutley going to be able to control himself around a pit bull who has already shown aggression.

I wouldn't go unless I knew the dog would be kept away from where we'd be.

[Sheal]

Originally Posted by LifeIZBeautiful

Not a good sign AT ALL. If the dog is snapping, the dog thinks it is above the child. The dog should be on a very short leash when near the children.

"The dingo stole my baby..." sound familiar? I'd be very leary.

Uh...hardly the case that the dog thinks it's above the child (at least not in every case, we have no indicators of this behavior from the dog). In fact, this is a situation where the dog perceives the child as being pushy by not backing out of the dog's space.

I have a husky\wolf hybrid. He's never been nasty with my kids, my kids are rough with him, not even a warning from him towards them. That dingo stole my baby is a generalization and stereotype. It's not the breed, all dogs have this behavior and instinct.

I agree with all of Catubodua's recommendations. It's about how we act around the dog (including our children) and not the other way around. Why would any one isolate the dog within it's own territory? This is punishing the dog for a perceived possible outcome that probably wouldn't happen. What exactly led up to the warning toward the child? We weren't given that information in full details. A lap dog can be as vicious an attacker as a hybrid or larger breed of dog. It's not the breed at all. The two individuals that would suffer most are the victim and the dog - all for what comes naturally to a dog as instinct. I don't think it's very fair to label the dog a problem dog for what comes naturally.

http://flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

It's a good read and well worth it to understanding why what happened at thansgiving did happen and why it may happen.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

i disagree. a 2.5 year old can absolutely follow simple rules. the simplest rule for the child being "leave the dog alone" can be understood by a child that age.

however, i clearly stated that the rules were for mom - as in, "teach your child..." and "do not let your child..." all of them still apply and make sense.

and, i know it may shock lots of you - but dog owners care about their pets just like you care about your kids. i know that everyone will make the arguement how you can't love a pet like you do a child, but for some people, they really do. so, asking him to put the dog out of it's home b/c you can't control a child is probably what's ridiculous in his eyes.

I would hope that pet owners do care about their pets. However, putting them in a safe place away from the child seems like it's protecting the child AND the animal from eachother. If the dog were to seriously injur the child it would be serious trouble. It's just the facts of life.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by Sheal

I agree with all of Catubodua's recommendations. It's about how we act around the dog (including our children) and not the other way around. Why would any one isolate the dog within it's own territory?

If your brother in law has this sort of mentality, op, I would not visit.

The reason someone would isolate a dog is to keep a human child safe adn comfortable. It is after all, just a dog. I know some people love their dogs to bits, but I would hoep that they could leave an animal in another room for a visit with a human being. It won't harm the dog to be in another part of the house for the visit.

[Lemon Juice]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

i disagree. a 2.5 year old can absolutely follow simple rules. the simplest rule for the child being "leave the dog alone" can be understood by a child that age.

Yes, can be understood by some 2.5 yr olds...but followed and implemented by a 2.5 yr old all the time, probably not. I am now raising my 4th 2.5 yr old and while she may be able to comprehend this "simplest rule" she may not always follow and be able to remember this. Especially my boys...even my 4 yr old would not be able to have the impulse control to follow this rule. Each child is different and each dog is as well. It is a risk I am not willing to take and advice that I think the OP should consider when her 2.5 year old is in the same house as this dog.

Originally Posted by Catubodua

however, i clearly stated that the rules were for mom - as in, "teach your child..." and "do not let your child..." all of them still apply and make sense.

Even if the rules are for mom...they are being passed onto her very young child. You can try to teach a child..but will the child follow? Not always. They are children. And this young child is not around animals often, it seems, which makes it that much harder for a child to learn this and remember this. The list you stated makes sense for older children...but not for a young toddler, imho. And there are times when a mom can be right on top of this and things can still happen to children...or adults with animals.

Originally Posted by Catubodua

and, i know it may shock lots of you - but dog owners care about their pets just like you care about your kids. i know that everyone will make the arguement how you can't love a pet like you do a child, but for some people, they really do. so, asking him to put the dog out of it's home b/c you can't control a child is probably what's ridiculous in his eyes.

As a vegetarian family who deeply care about animals I do understand that some people care very much about their pets and all animals. I get that. We have pets and we love them very much. It doesn't mean that pets can get away with hurting humans tho (b/c one loves them too much to put them away for a visit) and like PP's mentioned...it is a risk for people and animals to have a pet so intolerant around children (or other people if they are that way, like my BIL's dog). We even put our dog away when children come over...even tho she is gentle and kind and has 4 young children she lives with. It is a precaution b/c not all children are used to dogs and I respect that.

I really don't think it is fair to say that her brother thinks it is ridiculous. This is a child and a dog who obviously do not know how to act around one another. There is a huge learning curve for both animal and child to learn to respect one another. Especially a young child who is not used to animals and a dog not used to children. That is a recipe for disaster and if one really cares about their dog, they will keep them seperate and not be stubborn about it to try to prove a point (being that "you can't control a child").

So I respectfully beg to differ.

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by mamazee

A two-year-old will understand the rule, but they have very little impulse control and love dogs. It is not fair to expect that a 2-year-old is absolutley going to be able to control himself around a pit bull who has already shown aggression.

I wouldn't go unless I knew the dog would be kept away from where we'd be.

ditto

[tarajean56]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but there's NO WAY I'd let my kid be around a pit bull. No way. I've read too many accounts of kids being destroyed by that breed in particular.

I also wouldn't let my kid around a dog that snapped at him already. Just seems very dangerous and I'd be a nervous wreck the whole time.

As a disclaimer, I hate dogs for the most part. We had a friend with a dog "who would never hurt anyone." Even though I felt uneasy with my then 14 month old around the dog, I put the feelings aside thinking it was my own dog-hatred. Well, then my 14 month old accidentally tripped (as toddlers do), the dog freaked and bit him in the face. The friend never even so much as apologized....can you tell I'm still pissed? I have a pretty strict no dog rule now. Kids and dogs are just too unpredictable, its a bad mix.

[Carlin]

I highly recommend the following:

dogs and babies

and

Why dogs bite



She does a great job explaining why dogs act the way they do around children and how to make things safe.

Good luck with the visit. It may require some compromise on your brother and your part. If possible, maybe he would read the articles too?

[alegna]

Originally Posted by tarajean56

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but there's NO WAY I'd let my kid be around a pit bull. No way. I've read too many accounts of kids being destroyed by that breed in particular.

I think breed prejudice doesn't help anyone. I watched a small herd of toddlers and preschoolers play happily with a pit (mix I think...) today. She was lovely. Far more patient with them than I would have been.

-Angela

[primjillie]

I think a compromise is in order. Letting the child get used to being around the dog and maybe crating the dog part of the time so you call all relax a bit. I have two older dogs and two grandchildren. My 2 year old grandson won't leave one of the dogs alone and instead of following him around, we crate her. The other dog is much more tolerant and will put up with a certain amount of fondling from him. However, he is not allowed to hurt either dog and I think he does understand this. I believe a child can learn how to treat an animal, but it does take a lot of discipline and vigilance. I adore my dogs like they are my children, but for a more enjoyable visit, I would probably crate or separate the dog as long it wasn't too long of a time. We had company for Thanksgiving, including people who didn't care for dogs, and I put both dogs in the bedroom. I felt bad for the dogs, but sometimes you both have to meet halfway.

[mytwogirls]

Originally Posted by mamazee

A two-year-old will understand the rule, but they have very little impulse control and love dogs. It is not fair to expect that a 2-year-old is absolutley going to be able to control himself around a pit bull who has already shown aggression.

I wouldn't go unless I knew the dog would be kept away from where we'd be.

This is what I have been saying all along. I DO have a 2.5 year old and DO know that MY child could not follow that rule for an extended period of time.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by mytwogirls

This is what I have been saying all along. I DO have a 2.5 year old and DO know that MY child could not follow that rule for an extended period of time.

I also have a 2 1/2 year old and he can't follow these dog rules either. My SIL is constantly getting mad that DS hugs her dog too hard (a yorkie) and she is always on him. I tell him the rules until I'm blue in the face and I tell him "be gentle" but one day he went and squeezed the dog again and she's all "HARRY, you have to be gentle!!" And I finally snapped. I said "He's only TWO YEARS OLD and he DOESNT HAVE A DOG!" She said "well I've told him 20 times."

We don't go over there anymore because they are unwilling to put the dog away and my DS cannot resist at this point.

[henny penny]

I would not let my child anywhere near a dog that has already snapped at him. A young child WILL irritate that dog no matter what you do to prepare your ds. This is not the right dog for your child to practice his animal manners with. One snap could disfigure your child for life. Put your ds first and put the dog out!

[AkRotts]

Originally Posted by tarajean56

.

As a disclaimer, I hate dogs for the most part. We had a friend with a dog "who would never hurt anyone."

See that is part of the problem. There is no such thing as a dog "who would NEVER hurt anyone". ALL dogs will bite under the right circumstances. It just depends on what those circumstances are. Some dogs are just more tolerant than others.

It isn't a breed issue, it is a dog issue.

I have 3 Rottweilers who are FANTASTIC with my 3 toddlers (19 months & 27 month old twins). We had the dogs long before the babies came into the picture. Our dogs are extremely well trained and well socialized. All three of our rotties love to be around the babies. That being said, I would NEVER leave them together unattended!!!!! My children are never left unattended with ANY dog. Not even our little 5 pound poodle/brussels griffon mix. If I have to leave the room, the dogs are crated or go with me. Btw, our small dog would bite way before our Rotties would.

All three of our toddlers have been taught to respect the dogs and how to treat them from day one. Both girls are really good about treating the dogs correctly, but our boy goes out of his way to hit or kick the dogs. Especially the poodle/brussels mix. I ALWAYS have a place that the dogs can go to get away from the babies, so they never feel trapped.


In August we went and stayed with my mil for 2 weeks. She has an older Jack Russel Terrier, who does NOT like kids. I never had to ask her to put him up. I ALWAYS knew where he was and was ALWAYS right there to intervene when the babies tried to interact with him. It wasn't easy keeping three VERY active dog loving toddlers away from a dog who didn't like them, but we did it. I have to admit, it was exhausting, but we made it work. What really helped was the fact that my fil took the dog everywhere with him. When the babies would start to focus on the dog too much, my fil would put him outside for a while, which gave him a little break and gave us time to get the babies focused on something else.


As a responsible dog owner who LOVES her dogs, I would much rather put my dogs up than take a chance on something happening. If one of my dogs didn't like kids, I wouldn't hesitate to keep that dog away from kids. It is as much for the protection of my dog as it is for the child.

[mytwogirls]

Originally Posted by AkRotts

As a responsible dog owner who LOVES her dogs, I would much rather put my dogs up than take a chance on something happening. If one of my dogs didn't like kids, I wouldn't hesitate to keep that dog away from kids. It is as much for the protection of my dog as it is for the child.

Thank you! If more dog owners had this kind of mentality then a lot of children AND dogs' lives would be saved. The selfish "dog ALWAYS comes first NO MATTER WHAT" attitude just gets under my skin. A responsible dog owner can see both sides and is willing to do what is right to protect both the dog and child and themselves from possible bad consequences. Good job

[Catubodua]

for those who are saying that it's not possible for you to control your toddler's impulses - turn it around in your head in a different dangerous situation.

what if your toddler's impulse was to put his hands on a hot oven door? would you think the same way? "how dare the owner of the house run the oven when my child is there!? don't they know he can't control himself to not touch the oven door?"

what if his impulse was to run into the street? sticking forks into electrical outlets?

if you knew that your child was putting himself in danger, you would stop it - no matter how hard it was or how many times you'd have to teach them. and, you wouldn't throw up your hands and give up - and that's what i'm reading into your posts.

the rules i posted are for mom to follow 100% of the time - she is the adult, she can remember all of them and follow all of them and correct her child each time.

i actually wish the OP hadn't posted that the dog had any pitbull in it - the breed of dog really doesn't matter.