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Preparing to be around a Dingo/pitbull - Page 4

post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
so it's fine with you when your child breaks the rule about running out into the road? getting into the car with a stranger? touching the hot stove? i mean, if you can't get a child to follow rules 100% of the time, it must be ok for them to do any of those, right?



?
This is not meant to be snarky, or hurtful, I promise. But I really think part of the reason why you are not seeing eye to eye with so many of us is beacuase you don't yet have a 2.5 year old. It is not "okay" for a child to do any of the things you listed. But a street does not run up to a child. I am really surprised that you can't see the difference.
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
again, i believe you haven't bothered to read my post on what my feelings are on how the dog owner should handle this. i don't believe that owner or dog have no responsiblity.

i do believe that OP knows that this is a dangerous situation and has 100% of the responsibility for the decision if she goes and if child goes with her. she's being told by owner that he's not going to be responsible and he won't contain the dog - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, and something goes wrong, how on earth do we blame anyone but her?
I've read the entire thread. I have stated severeal times the op should not go, but NOT because her 2.5 year old can't follow rules, but because her brother is being inconsiderate and dangerous. That's where we can't agree.
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
I've read the entire thread. I have stated severeal times the op should not go, but NOT because her 2.5 year old can't follow rules, but because her brother is being inconsiderate and dangerous. That's where we can't agree.
I'm not actually sure we don't agree on this point. All I'm saying is - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, how do we blame the brother for any incidents?

as for the other thing, i don't believe you were trying to get a dig at me. i'm equally surprised that you can't see my point of view - a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation. as a parent, you are either being vigilant about the dangerous situation or you're not. i don't see how dividing them up into different categories makes one dangerous situation more acceptable than the other.
post #64 of 92
Quote:
so it's fine with you when your child breaks the rule about running out into the road? getting into the car with a stranger? touching the hot stove? i mean, if you can't get a child to follow rules 100% of the time, it must be ok for them to do any of those, right?
These examples aren't even remotely similar to the dog....

The dog will be there, in the open, tempting the child by his very nature of being a dog - something living, cuddly, breathing, and perhaps to be played with. Secondly, the dog has no impulse control either, and could react to ANYTHING that child could do without a moment's notice.

If you want to compare the dog to these things, then you'd have to say that the stranger in the car was parked in the road, in the same spot all day, tempting, tempting and tempting the child the whole time kiddo was outside, and could at any time hop out of his car and just nab the child. What mother in her right mind, seeing that stranger, would even ALLOW her child outside?

Or an oven, following a child around a home, looking ever so interesting and fun to touch and play with, which could at any moment just open up its door and swallow the child. And let me add here too that yeah, touching a hot stove is not a good idea, but that stove isn't going to force its heat on a child if the child walks too near it, or trips into it, or runs and screams around it. The oven just sits there. The dog may not.

It's not the same situation at all. The dog is ALIVE and can act and react on his own instinct - he's not just going to be sitting there like a lump.
post #65 of 92
Catubodua - I do see your point. THe reality of the situation is that the dog's owner is planning on doing nothing. I find this reprehensible - that he can't even meet them in the middle - but that is the situation. So, the Mom either has to decline the invite or be extra super vigilant.
post #66 of 92
[QUOTE=Catubodua;12728348]I'm not actually sure we don't agree on this point. All I'm saying is - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, how do we blame the brother for any incidents?

QUOTE]

if the brother is going to allow a child around the dog, and the dog attacks the child, then he is responsible, legally if not morally. if his dog is not safe to be around kids, he shouldn't allow kids in his home.
post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
as for the other thing, i don't believe you were trying to get a dig at me. i'm equally surprised that you can't see my point of view - a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation. as a parent, you are either being vigilant about the dangerous situation or you're not. i don't see how dividing them up into different categories makes one dangerous situation more acceptable than the other.

Well, lets say I tell my child to never talk to strangers, and I never never leave my child alone, but a stranger breaks into my home (or breaks into my sisters home while we are visiting) and abducts my child, is that my responsibity? A living thing with free will (the dog) is different than an inanimate object.
post #68 of 92
oh, i'm so glad someone finally see the point i've been trying to make! quite honestly, it's exhausting trying to make these points with mommies.
post #69 of 92
The dog owner in the OP is being careless. Why would he allow his dog to be put into the way of harm (and a rambunctious 2.5-yr old is quite able to inflict harm on a dog), and not be willing to protect this treasured pet ?

Why invite a family with a young child over if he isn't willing to protect his pet ?

It baffles me - both as a parent (my kids are 2, 4, and 6 yrs old), and as a dog owner.
post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancta View Post
These examples aren't even remotely similar to the dog....

The dog will be there, in the open, tempting the child by his very nature of being a dog - something living, cuddly, breathing, and perhaps to be played with. Secondly, the dog has no impulse control either, and could react to ANYTHING that child could do without a moment's notice.

If you want to compare the dog to these things, then you'd have to say that the stranger in the car was parked in the road, in the same spot all day, tempting, tempting and tempting the child the whole time kiddo was outside, and could at any time hop out of his car and just nab the child. What mother in her right mind, seeing that stranger, would even ALLOW her child outside?

Or an oven, following a child around a home, looking ever so interesting and fun to touch and play with, which could at any moment just open up its door and swallow the child. And let me add here too that yeah, touching a hot stove is not a good idea, but that stove isn't going to force its heat on a child if the child walks too near it, or trips into it, or runs and screams around it. The oven just sits there. The dog may not.

It's not the same situation at all. The dog is ALIVE and can act and react on his own instinct - he's not just going to be sitting there like a lump.
Exactly.
post #71 of 92
One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
oh, i'm so glad someone finally see the point i've been trying to make! quite honestly, it's exhausting trying to make these points with mommies.
It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
ITA. Very well said, like so many PP's.

Like I said before as well...even if you are on top of this and follow the "rules"...it can still happen! Even if the child is not doing anything...even if you are not doing anything to provoke a dog...it can still happen. Even if you are both there and following your child and you are following these "rules". It can still happen! And then we go blame the mother?! Harsh. And the other analogies compared to a dog...well I'm not even going to comment on that. Pointless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
I am so sorry your ds and you and your family went through that.
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.

I'm so very sorry you went through that and that it feels like your family chose the dog over your son. That must feel horrible.


To the OP, I would not go if my brother wouldn't crate or otherwise contain his dog. My grandmother leashes her very docile golden retriever and golden doodle when we visit and sometimes gates them in the kitchen. These dogs have been great with 8 grandkids but you can never, ever be too careful when there are babies/toddlers/preschoolers involved. Not only could something happen in an INSTANT but when a child is SO small, that injury could be devastatingly debilitating or fatal fairly easily.
post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
I'm so sorry for what happened to your son (and your entire family). Thank you for sharing this, though.
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
exactly.
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post

if the brother is going to allow a child around the dog, and the dog attacks the child, then he is responsible, legally if not morally. if his dog is not safe to be around kids, he shouldn't allow kids in his home.
just quoting myself here, because I think it's an important point to make - the brother is the one who would be at fault for allowing his dog to be around a child. the brother shouldn't have young houseguests.
post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
i disagree. a 2.5 year old can absolutely follow simple rules. the simplest rule for the child being "leave the dog alone" can be understood by a child that age.
Ummm... how many 2.5 year olds have you been around? Because I have a 5 year old who still can't follow simple directions a lot of times. He certaintly couldn't at 2.5. (He does have autism though so not a typical child). HOWEVER, I also work at a daycare. I've been doing childcare for 6+ years. No 2.5 year old that I've known has been able to follow a simple rule with 100% accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog.
I'm so sorry your family went through this. I'm glad everyone is healing (physically and emotionally).

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.
I agree. My ds was bit on the face (not bad, thank God) by my mom's ex-husbands dog. The guy was living with mom, I was their nanny to their youngest kids so spent more time there than anyone. I told the guy I was NOT comfortable with this dog (who he bought as a puppy- chocolate lab- and never had time to train because he was never home) and did NOT want it on the same floor of the house as I and the kids were. He refused to put the dog downstairs so most days I would when the puppy (now a big puppy) would get too out of control. The dog nipped at ME multiple times. One day ds was sitting right next to me (literally could reach out and grab him). Puppy was right next to us. DS moved suddenly (like all young kids do) and the dog jumped and nipped. Right under ds's eye. Another 1/2 inch and ds would have been at risk of losing that eye. I refused to come back to the house unless the dog was on a different floor or outside. The guy refused to give the dog to someone who could care for him. A few weeks later the dog nipped at mom and her ex-husbands young daughter. Mom insisted the dog get put down (). A few months later the guy bought another puppy
post #79 of 92
I don't have time to read every response but here's my .02. The brother needs to give a bit on this one. Keep the dog away from the child. Yes, a 2.5 year old ( I'm pregnant with #4 so I do have some experience here) can understand [I]somewhat[I] to stay away from the dog but accidents do happen. Case in point: my in-laws have 'custody' of my husband's 14 year old dog (long story, MIL fell in love and dog-napped her 3 years ago, fenced in yard, etc, etc). She has never liked small children nor been around them much and we know that. We watched her like a hawk around our 14 month old over Thanksgiving who naturally, wanted to touch this big fuzzy creature. The first warning growl and Mazzy was put out in her "condo" for a bit. Next time she came back in, we made sure Joseph didn't touch her but as he was walking across the room and was near her, he tripped and fell on her. She barked and nipped him. He had a scratch across his forehead, a small puncture wound below his eye and a nick/scratch on his eyelid. We were incredibly lucky. It has been decided that we can't expect Mazzy to tolerate Joseph, it's not her nature nor can we expect Joseph to understand fully so they will not be in the same room together again. Odds are, Mazzy doesn't have that much longer to live and we are not risking our child's safety. Period. End of story. Everyone is in complete agreement. So, even with constant hovering and intervention, some accidents you can't prevent and the life and safety and well-being of your child outweighs the dog's ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Keep it outside or in another part of the house or, if the owner is that stubborn, don't go. I had a dog that was 7 years old when my first child was born and yes, he was my baby and I loved him but he was still a dog. Not a child.
post #80 of 92
I have read some of the replies but not all but I would like to respond.

We have a dog who we adopted before DS was born. We suspect that the dog had been abused by the previous owners so we were nervous about our son and dog interacting. As of today they get along very well... but that has been 3 years worth of work and vigilence. That being said I think it was one of the very first posts where some one listed "rules" for interaction which I thought were great. What I would add that if your brother does not want to crate the dog, he should make sure that there is a spot in the house where the dog can go where no one can bug him (adults and children). Sort of a safety zone for the dog.

I would also like to add that the fact that the dog gave a warning snap is good and bad. Good because the dog is following the usual doggy behaviours in the warning system. It was clearly saying "I'm getting mad, leave me alone". Bad because the dog had already passed the warning growl stage. The next/last stage is the nip/bite. I love dogs, I think they can be a wonderful addition to the family but you can never forget that they are an animal and will react as such.

If it were a friend's house then I would recommend not going but because its your family it sounds like you want to try to make it work. I would recommend that when you do visit, you look at it as a "teaching my toddler how to act around dogs" time as opposed to family time. It will take vigilance and hard work but it will teach your child to be "safer" around animals. No one can ever be safe because ultimately you never know how an animal is going to react.
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