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UTI in 2yo=CIRCUMCISION!!?? - Page 2  

post #21 of 36
12/4/08 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 
it may have something to do with ds' heart defect as a nb. This ped has a reputation for being overly cautious anyway and with ds he is even more so....
post #22 of 36
12/4/08 at 4:37pm
As others have said, RUN!!!!

Foreskins don't cause UTIs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They actually protect them from uti if the parent is following the correct care, which is to never retract. If he is circed then the feces will be in direct contact with his urethra opening.

1. Fire your pedi

2. Only 50% of boys are retractable by age 10. It is normal to not be retractable until puberty.

3. Try to start potty training now. Lots of diaper-free time will facilitate this better.

4. Make sure no one ever tries to retract your son.
post #23 of 36
12/4/08 at 4:46pm
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

How the foreskin protects
against UTI infection:

The foreskin contains muscle fibers arranged in a whorl to form a sphincter at the tip of the foreskin. The sphincter holds the foreskin protectively closed except when the child urinates and the pressure of the urine stream forces the sphincter to open, allowing outflow of the urine. Then the sphincter closes again and prevents entry of foreign matter, such as fecal material that contains bacteria. The sphincter of the foreskin keeps contaminants away from the urethra and is added protection against UTI.

Breastfeeding adds yet another level of protection. Breastfed babies have oligosaccharides in their urine. The oligosaccharides prevent adhesion of E. coli, the fecal bacteria that causes most UTI, to the epithelium of the urinary tract. Bacterial adhesion is a prerequisite for infection. Intact babies who are also breastfed have doubled protection against UTI.

Parents and other caregivers should never attempt to retract the foreskin. Retraction of the foreskin opens the sphincter and allows contaminants to enter. This is especially true at bath time because baby's bathwater may very well contain E. coli from the baby's intestinal tract. The first person to retract the foreskin of a child should be the child himself.

The foreskin has many other protective functions that may help to prevent disease and contribute to good health throughout life.

Unfortunately, Army hospitals in the 1980s instructed parents to retract the foreskin to wash—a procedure that has been abandoned because of the danger of contamination by E. coli. This may have allowed E. coli to enter the urinary tract and caused the slight increased incidence of UTI reported by Wiswell. (the urethra of circed boys narrows as a protective mechanism in order to do the job of what a foreskin is designed to do, which is why circed men shoot a narrower stream of urine).
post #24 of 36
12/4/08 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you sooo much-I need to figure out how to print that out-new computer
I really wish I could fire him but there are no others docs around who will see us because of the no-vaxing issue.....sad-a child with a heart defect at birth, surgery at 10 DAYS of age and he could quite possibly be WITHOUT a PCP??!!
post #25 of 36
12/4/08 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arismommy View Post
Thank you sooo much-I need to figure out how to print that out-new computer
I really wish I could fire him but there are no others docs around who will see us because of the no-vaxing issue.....sad-a child with a heart defect at birth, surgery at 10 DAYS of age and he could quite possibly be WITHOUT a PCP??!!
You should try printing a few pamphlets out for him. Since you are going to stick with him, you should be sure to never allow him to touch your son's penis again. Just politely ask him to respect your wishes and give him these brochures:

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet6.html

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet4.html

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

and this article:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

You might want to keep printouts of all of these on hand for yourself as well.

Sorry you have to deal with this. I know it can be hard when you have limited access to doctors. Here in PR we have the same problem so I have to always remind the pedi not to touch DS's penis.
post #26 of 36
12/5/08 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arismommy View Post
I'm not sure what to think right now. My ds-2 1/2-is just getting over a UTI. This VERY rare in children and evn more so in boys.
I believe it's b/c he will poop his diaper, not tell me and sits in it until I smell it.
Yesterday his doc told me he'd talked with a pediatric urologist. His first question was whether his foreskin had been retracted yet. I said I didn't think so. "Well by 2 years it should be retracting already just by normal playing, spontaneous erections. Why don't we let the urologist do that instead of you or I" WHAT!!??
He also said if the UTI's are recurring he should be circumcised!
Please give me your input. This seems insane
Instead of giving you my direct suggestion, I think I'll ask you a question instead.

Would you remove the labia (or any other part) of your daughter if she had recurrent UTIs?

That should give you your answer...
post #27 of 36
12/5/08 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeep View Post
Instead of giving you my direct suggestion, I think I'll ask you a question instead.

Would you remove the labia (or any other part) of your daughter if she had recurrent UTIs?

That should give you your answer...
oh hell no! BUt like I said, circumcision is not an option.
I just posted b/c I know NOTHING about retractibility and the norm....
post #28 of 36
12/6/08 at 7:47am
Since you are going to stay with your doctor, I think it's very important that you make yourself VERY clear. You can still be nice while doing this.

First, gather the info that people have posted here. Read thoroughly. Then make an appointment for your doctor specifically to talk about retraction/circumcision. Tell them that's why you are there! Bring your info to your doctor. Say something like "doctor you are so great, we really like you, but I'm concerned that you recommended circ for a UTI." Share the info you have. Let the doc know he is not allowed to mess with the foreskin -before you take off the diaper.

This really should be addressed with the doctor, especially because you are going to continue seeing him for care. If he is a decent doctor, he will be interested and open to the information you give him.

And, as others have stated here, many 2 year olds are not retractible and you should never pull the foreskin back at all.
post #29 of 36
12/6/08 at 10:26am
i would make your current doctor sign one of the nice little contracts where he promises to leave your sons penis alone.

my deal with my doctor is this- DSs diaper stays on until i take it off.. and she does not touch his penis. i will open his diaper so she can see his diaper area.. no touching necessary. there is no reason she would ever need to see a part of the penis she cannot see by simply looking so even if we are there for a penis related issue eyes will suffice. if it is a UTI i don't see why peeing in a bag getting a test and prescribing antibiotics is so hard...

i know this is the only non vax friendly ped... but is there anyone who is not non vax friendly... but who will let you refuse vax even if they don't agree but is more foreskin friendly?
post #30 of 36
12/6/08 at 10:33am
Link to the contract http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/care.htm
post #31 of 36
12/6/08 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
1littlebit-
there have been 3 practices tht have refused us care completely. Maybe I need to look a bit harder. It's hard when we like him otherwise and he knows ds' heart history....hmmm
Will certainly do what you all have suggested-in fact-i'm excited!!
post #32 of 36
12/11/08 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 
so the appt's this morning-printed oot all the info. posted here.
I AM ARMED AND EDUCATED!! NO one will be messing with MY boy's foreskin!!
Now I m just nervous about the u/s of his kidney's.....
Thanks everyone for all your help--I'll let you know what happens.
post #33 of 36
12/11/08 at 10:37am
My dd is have the same u/s next week after her first UTI. Apparently they automatically refer kids with UTIs just to check.
Hope it goes well and you get no more crazy foreskin advice!
post #34 of 36
12/11/08 at 11:08am
Hope all goes well :
post #35 of 36
12/11/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arismommy View Post
it may have something to do with ds' heart defect as a nb. This ped has a reputation for being overly cautious anyway and with ds he is even more so....

You might want to do a search for the story of Jacob Christian Holliday. Like your son, Jake was born with a heart defect and his condition was so fragile at birth, the doctors wouldn't circumcise him. But at about 2 years old, the doctor proclaimed him sufficiently strong to endure the rigors of circumcision and he was circumcised. The doctor was wrong! The circumcision irreparably damaged his heart and he ended up having to have a heart transplant. Any time an organ is transplanted, the patient has to go on anti-rejection drugs for life that compromise the immune system. These drugs compromised Jake's immune system and he ended up with cancer. Jake died of the cancer.

I know you are defiant that your son will not be circumcised but I know some doctors can be very convincing in selling circumcision. Just remember Jake's story and that will keep you defiant.



Frank
post #36 of 36
12/12/08 at 10:49am
How did the appt. go?
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