I have less than a week to work on this mom...Update #8

[leila1213]

I know this girl mostly from online/email conversations. She was/is deadset against circ, but can't convince her partner, who is an EMT and works in ERs. The baby is a week old today, and they have an appt scheduled with a pediatric urologist for next Tuesday. She says her partner is basically paranoid about him needing to have it done later on. And she is just exhausted from arguing with him. His original argument was that he needed to look like daddy (which she basically accepted), and I don't know what happened to that thinking, although I and others provided many links and counterarguments. I know she is aware of the unlikelihood that he would "need" to be circed later, that most circs in this country are preventable with proper care and knowledgeable healthcare providers, and that it is actually an easier procedure to have done later rather than sooner, because I have emailed her all that information. What else can I do? DD calling, I'll come back later.

[Night_Nurse]

If her partner is an EMT then he should be highly paranoid of taking the baby in the car to get the circ because I'm sure he's seen more than a fair share of car crashes and deaths related to that. So the reasoning that he's paranoid that the kid "need" a circ due to what he's seen in the ER doesn't hold water with me. These parents want a circ and are grasping at straws to find a reason to justify it - plain and simple. I'd bet there is a 99% chance the child will never "need" a circ and if he did, he could get it done then. She's the mama. She could put her foot down and say no if she really wanted to.

Have you sent her a link to the circ video? http://intact.ca/vidintro.htm Or the Penn and Teller link?
If you have and they want to do it anyway, I think you've done all you can do.
You're a great person for trying! I wouldn't loose all hope, but don't be too shocked if they go ahead with the circumcision.

[robertandenith]

you should mention that probably his nose or his hair does not look like daddy.

The penn & teller video was the one that convinced my husband.

[Greg B]

It sounds like she needs to stop falling into his emotional trap and arguing with him. Instead, bring it into the realm of thoughtful decisoion making.

RIC is wrong morally and philosophically. If someone chooses to advocate for RIC, they must be the one to provide arguments why the advantages outweigh the moral and philosophical reasons against it. They must provide the references and you must be able to follow the logic. If not, then realize you are agreeing to emotional and irrational arguments. We do that all the time, so nothing says that is wrong...however, it should not be done lightly, especially when you are supposed to be playing an advocacy role for your child to protect him from harm.

Bottom line is the default should be remaining normal (intact). Any other course needs strong arguments to justify it. Not strong emotional outbursts, not strong irrational feelings, but strong arguments that show the advantages for the child, supported by good evidence and a logic that others would agree is compelling.

The core issue is that it isn't her husband's penis. It's thier son's penis. And their son is the person who has the right to decide how he wants his penis to look, function and feel.

The risk of complications is why many men and women in the USA now work to end the practice of circumcision. When it is done on an infant and there is damage to the sexual functioning of the penis, it is not known until many years later. The victim must live with a decision others made for him when he was a baby. When an adult man takes the risk, he must live with what happens, because it was his own choice. An infant or child must not be exposed to risks that can cause a sexual disability he must live with when he becomes a man. Just because it worked out well for her husband to be circumcised (assuming he would say it did) does not mean that it will for their child.

Ask him how rational it is to have a cosmetic surgery on a non-consenting minor for the sole purpose of wanting his child's sex organs to look like his? Are they going to compare them? Is he willing to shave until his son grows hair? They're NOT going to look alike even when they're adults.

Regards

[leila1213]

Here's the email I have so far:

I know you've been over and over the circ thing. I'm so sorry it's so tough! How does DP feel about the fact that it is easier on an older child/adult to have it done, because they can get proper anesthesia/pain relief (which they can request more of if needed) and understand what is happening to them? Plus the fact that he can probably avoid any of that by just not retracting him? 85% of the world is not circ'ed, with no problems whatsoever! (In fact, I'm told they rather enjoy their foreskins!) And, the complication rate is rather high, upwards of 10%...all for an unnecessary procedure!

Do what you gotta do, mama. I have heard so many stories of regret from moms that feel horrible about having their sons circ'ed. If you know in your heart it is wrong, then how will you feel when it is done?? I just want you to be at peace that you have looked out for DS's best interests and protected him with all your might. I know that is what you want, too. I don't know if there's any chance of a reversal at this point, but I have to throw it out there.

I'll be thinking about you!

[latinalonestar]

Unless he gets frostbite, gangrene, tumor, or has a serious trauma he would never need a circ. If a doctor ever suggested circ he is not educated about the foreskin. In that case he would need a NEW doctor not a circ. Here is a pamphlet about that:

http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html

and an article:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

[leila1213]

Perfect! Thanks!

[leila1213]

Yes yes yes!! I got an update back from the mom. My words didn't change her final decision to let her son get circ'ed against her wishes, but...

(paraphrasing)

So we went to the appt with pediatric urologist because DP is big on hearing all the research we know is true come out of a doctor's mouth and the first thing that sort of got his attention was a separate form in the paperwork that said all about recent controversy and the american academy of pediatrics and obgyns not recommending it and that 90 percent of men that are intact never have any problems.

Then the doc was really great and fair he said the same thing after examining DS that he was a perfectly healthy baby boy and that it was strictly personal; he even talked about the couple of issues he had experienced with complications from performing the procedure. He told us because we dont agree to not do it and go home and have a glass of wine and talk it over and i told him thats all we have done the last 6 months and then i got upset because i sort of felt like we should have had this figured out by now and i told DP just do it. Then he said no, 90% was enough for him. He said he just didnt understand why if the risk of needing it done later in life is so low why did he get it done when he was a baby?

I said just like when i was 21 and had DD i didnt know anything and his parents were young and it wasnt anything they knew to question because it was so mainstream. I said back when people didnt always have running water and the ability to wash on a routine basis yes it probably was more hygenic but that unless he planned to be a missionary in a third world country or study some rare species in the deep jungle he wouldnt need to worry about that.

Anyway i think the battle is finally over. And DS is still intact! Thank you for all your kind words and helpful links and information. You are a very sweet lady!

:

[robertandenith]

::: awesome news!!!

I wish to have more doctors like their doctor!

[Nandi]

OH my gosh that is a great story. I'm so glad you had an impact, and the doctor was reasonable.

[Raelynn]

That is so wonderful!!

[leila1213]

I'm soooo glad it's good news. I was sure he was toast!

[Arduinna]

I'm glad that he is going to stay intact. Although it;s too bad that it had to come down to the random luck of finding a pro foreskin Dr. It could have so easily gone the other way. Most babies aren't that lucky unfortunately.

[urchin_grey]

Phew! Lucky boy, and yay for a pro-intact doctor.

[Night_Nurse]

That is great news! Do you happen to know in what state this person lives?

[leila1213]

Florida.