K12 Curriculum? - Page 2

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Interesting coincidence - just a moment ago, I was reading Home Education Magazine's editorial, Public School Programs Are Not Homeschooling, and wishing more new homeschoolers had a way of understanding how big a difference there can be between the programs and the potential. It's one of the most volatile subjects around, unfortunately, and hard to discuss... - Lillian

Thanks for linking this- I was actually thinking of this article when I first posted.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by theretohere

This. It's not anyone knocking anyone else here, it's just not homeschooling.

You can feel free to believe that I'm not homeschooling. I just disagree with you. I'm not doing anything different in the day to day dealing with my kids than many other homeschoolers I know. I just get my curriculum from a different source.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by theretohere

This. It's not anyone knocking anyone else here, it's just not homeschooling. In MN where I live for instance, virtual charters require the kids to attend a brick and mortar school for 5 hours a week. It's cheap when it comes to dollars and cents but for some people the strings are too high a cost.

So what is homeschooling?

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by joensally

So what is homeschooling?

It's not being under the control of public schools while being at home. I don't see why this is such an issue- the virtual charters themselves make it very, very clear that it is NOT homeschooling. I'm not trying to be a big meanie here.
When I initially heard about K12 and saw it was offered in my state I was very excited, until I started doing more research.
Homeschooling is being able to choose pace, materials, accountability, and activities.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by theretohere

It's not being under the control of public schools while being at home. I don't see why this is such an issue- the virtual charters themselves make it very, very clear that it is NOT homeschooling. I'm not trying to be a big meanie here.
When I initially heard about K12 and saw it was offered in my state I was very excited, until I started doing more research.
Homeschooling is being able to choose pace, materials, accountability, and activities.

This sounds like the debate over on RS about whether Jehovah's Witnesses are really really really Christians. Seriously? The was unneccessary. For reals.

In any case, Charter Homeschool programs might not officially consider themselves homeschooling, but that doesn't mean that families using curriculum from these sources are not engaged in the act of homeschooling. So, whatever.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by joensally

So what is homeschooling?

If we're going to get all technical

Main Entry: home·school
Pronunciation: \ˈhōm-ˌskül\
Function: verb
Date: 1980
intransitive verb
: to teach school subjects to one's children at home
transitive verb
: to teach (one's children) at home

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homeschooling

[applejuice]

I used CAliforniaVA six years ago and liked it a lot. But then, my DH was dying and I was working full time, so I needed something structured and progressive like K12. It fit the bill for me at that point in time. My son did well and I enjoyed the teachers.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by eclipse

If we're going to get all technical

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homeschooling

You've obviously made up your mind and you seem pretty defensive. If you think that you are homeschooling and you feel that way- more power to you. Define your educational choices in whatever way you want. I'm glad that you've found something that works for your family.

Edited to add- I'm really not trying to be snarky here, mama. I am happy that you and your little ones are happy- that's the most important thing.

[Linda on the move]

Someone enrolled in a charter school isn't legally a homeschooler. However, for all practical purposes, they are homeschooling. The kids are learning at home and the parent is overseeing their education.

There are lots of different options for our kids' educations and, ideally, we find what is right for each of our kids and stay open and supportive of other parents' decisions.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Someone enrolled in a charter school isn't legally a homeschooler. However, for all practical purposes, they are homeschooling. The kids are learning at home and the parent is overseeing their education.

There are lots of different options for our kids' educations and, ideally, we find what is right for each of our kids and stay open and supportive of other parents' decisions.

The reason schools don't refer to those enrolled with them who are learning at home as "home schoolers" is that it "home schooler" has a distinct legal meaning, and the school is still accountable for the outcomes of the child in their reporting.

We are home learning through our local school district. We meet with them once every three months and show them what we've done. They provided curriculum, and I pick the bits that are meaningful for DS and forget the rest. I've gone and found my own materials tailored to DS, and we do what works for him and as his interests lead us. An example: they provided a math program that's not our style. I produced a matrix showing the topics covered by their math program and what's in our chosen curriculum. I've made sure DS understands the basics of theirs, and use Singapore as our core. In the past three months, I've devoted probably an hour in total to their math curriculum.

I understand my relationship with the school as: they facilitate access to some good resources. I know they understand our relationship as basically having sub-contracted the work of educating my child to me (with no remuneration). I think we mutually benefit.

I think of it as a continuum - full-on school on one end and unschooling on the other. I don't feel the need to be a purist about what I'll call home schooling. I'm not prepared to judge other people's method, or what resources they call on, to educate their children. If at any time I decide that the school district program is inhibiting our ability to direct DS's learning, we'll withdraw.

Last point - I totally get the whole wanting to be a purist about what constitutes homeschooling for the purposes of being an agent of social change and bucking the dominant method of educating children. I just happen to think that people who use the various school-connected programs to school at home are part of creating that change too.

[COVegMom]

So it looks like the disadvantages would be 1) the curriculum is not a good fit for everyone (single learning style and workbook oriented) and 2) the teacher/school admins can vary a lot and could be very rigid.

The advantages would be that 1) with the right support from the teacher and school the curriculum would provide a framework that I could supplement or adapt and 2) it's free .

I will definitely check into the Options programs--I just discovered that the Aurora Options school is a few blocks from our house!! It looks like this would be similar in that we would still have the support of the public school system and free materials (to borrow) but there would be a choice of currriculum. It also looks like they offer some fun classes--drama, music, PE--that would be nice to do in a group setting.

Thank you for all of the input. And thanks for the lively debate about homeschooling vs. pulic schooling at home. Personally, I like the idea of having the support of professionals. And at least right now I feel like I will need some kind structured framework to work with. Maybe once we get on a roll I will feel more confident to just go with the flow.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by COVegMom

The advantages would be that 1) with the right support from the teacher and school the curriculum would provide a framework that I could supplement or adapt and 2) it's free .

Not trying to be negative, but I think that for most children, supplementing after they do the amount of work required is unrealistic. One of the challanges for moms who homeschool in a "school at home" way is getting the kids to do the work. Starting out assuming that you will do K12 (or any other school at home program) and supplement it is, IMHO, setting yourself up for a battle with your child.

Adapting may or may not be allowed, depending on your charter. And they may or may not change the rules in the middle. And I watched a friend go through major crap with a charter.

Free always, always, always comes with strings.

This is the thing. Traditional schooling with worksheets and neat little objectives for the week required a certain amount of energy to make happen. With my child who attends school, that energy comes the teacher and the other kids. Because everyone will turns the work in, she happily does it and turns it in.

For a child at home, any time they are doing something they don't want to do, the energy has to come from mom. You have to make them. You have to make them do everything single little thing that you think they should that they don't want to. If you use a charter, you have to make them do everything single little thing that that the charter thinks they should, even if they don't want to and even if you don't see the point or think it is just too much. For many moms, it's a big energy drain.

When a child is learning things that are interesting to them in ways that work for them, much of the energy comes from the child and only a little from the mom. And as any vetern homeschooling mom can tell you, just because it looks fun and intersting to you doesn't mean that it will be to your child.

My child who homeschool uses a curriculum (oak meadow), but it is a jumping off point. We can modify it to suit her to our hearts content. Using it makes planning easier and introduces her to new things, but we can just talk about topics rather than writing about them, or skip things, etc. because it is just between the two of us. We selected it together based on her learning style.

I don't make either of my kids do school work.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Not trying to be negative, but I think that for most children, supplementing after they do the amount of work required is unrealistic. One of the challanges for moms who homeschool in a "school at home" way is getting the kids to do the work. Starting out assuming that you will do K12 (or any other school at home program) and supplement it is, IMHO, setting yourself up for a battle with your child.

Adapting may or may not be allowed, depending on your charter. And they may or may not change the rules in the middle. And I watched a friend go through major crap with a charter.

Free always, always, always comes with strings.

This is the thing. Traditional schooling with worksheets and neat little objectives for the week required a certain amount of energy to make happen. With my child who attends school, that energy comes the teacher and the other kids. Because everyone will turns the work in, she happily does it and turns it in.

For a child at home, any time they are doing something they don't want to do, the energy has to come from mom. You have to make them. You have to make them do everything single little thing that you think they should that they don't want to. If you use a charter, you have to make them do everything single little thing that that the charter thinks they should, even if they don't want to and even if you don't see the point or think it is just too much. For many moms, it's a big energy drain.

When a child is learning things that are interesting to them in ways that work for them, much of the energy comes from the child and only a little from the mom. And as any vetern homeschooling mom can tell you, just because it looks fun and intersting to you doesn't mean that it will be to your child.

My child who homeschool uses a curriculum (oak meadow), but it is a jumping off point. We can modify it to suit her to our hearts content. Using it makes planning easier and introduces her to new things, but we can just talk about topics rather than writing about them, or skip things, etc. because it is just between the two of us. We selected it together based on her learning style.

I don't make either of my kids do school work.

You've almost completely outlined my issues/ concerns with charter schools.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Not trying to be negative, but I think that for most children, supplementing after they do the amount of work required is unrealistic. One of the challanges for moms who homeschool in a "school at home" way is getting the kids to do the work. Starting out assuming that you will do K12 (or any other school at home program) and supplement it is, IMHO, setting yourself up for a battle with your child.

Adapting may or may not be allowed, depending on your charter. And they may or may not change the rules in the middle. And I watched a friend go through major crap with a charter.

Free always, always, always comes with strings.

This is the thing. Traditional schooling with worksheets and neat little objectives for the week required a certain amount of energy to make happen. With my child who attends school, that energy comes the teacher and the other kids. Because everyone will turns the work in, she happily does it and turns it in.

For a child at home, any time they are doing something they don't want to do, the energy has to come from mom. You have to make them. You have to make them do everything single little thing that you think they should that they don't want to. If you use a charter, you have to make them do everything single little thing that that the charter thinks they should, even if they don't want to and even if you don't see the point or think it is just too much. For many moms, it's a big energy drain.

When a child is learning things that are interesting to them in ways that work for them, much of the energy comes from the child and only a little from the mom. And as any vetern homeschooling mom can tell you, just because it looks fun and intersting to you doesn't mean that it will be to your child.

My child who homeschool uses a curriculum (oak meadow), but it is a jumping off point. We can modify it to suit her to our hearts content. Using it makes planning easier and introduces her to new things, but we can just talk about topics rather than writing about them, or skip things, etc. because it is just between the two of us. We selected it together based on her learning style.

I don't make either of my kids do school work.

dang, make it sound like that and no one will want to try it. Both I and ecplise and a lot of other people have found k12 to work quite well. Perhaps you have chosen not to read our posts? We don't do busy work (you make it sound like were doing 6 hours of busy work every day), we may do 1 work sheet a day but its more like 1 a week and we use other materials then just what k12 provides. It sounds like those who really hate k12 are coming at it from an unschooling POV which doesn't work for a lot of people (like me, I'm a strong believer in classical education which is 180 from unschooling). Different things work for different families and the beauty of k12 is that if it doesn't work then you can easily unenroll with no fuss and no lost money.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by Satori

dang, make it sound like that and no one will want to try it. Both I and ecplise and a lot of other people have found k12 to work quite well. Perhaps you have chosen not to read our posts? We don't do busy work (you make it sound like were doing 6 hours of busy work every day), we may do 1 work sheet a day but its more like 1 a week and we use other materials then just what k12 provides. It sounds like those who really hate k12 are coming at it from an unschooling POV which doesn't work for a lot of people (like me, I'm a strong believer in classical education which is 180 from unschooling). Different things work for different families and the beauty of k12 is that if it doesn't work then you can easily unenroll with no fuss and no lost money.

Off the internets!!! Study!!

There's a wide difference in charter requirements by state. in MN, k12 kids have to go to a school 5 hours a week.
OP- look at your states requirements and go from there.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by theretohere

Off the internets!!! Study!!

There's a wide difference in charter requirements by state. in MN, k12 kids have to go to a school 5 hours a week.
OP- look at your states requirements and go from there.

I'm taking a break before my head explodes, the kids are making me and driving me crazy and its futile to try working.

In CA there's no such requirement, you have to report the time you spend on lessons but it seems most of the moms I know just accept the default times it gives which ends up being 5 hours and 45 min of daily instruction. In truth we do about 2 hours to do all the work then dd spends about 40 minutes a day doing 2 head sprout lessons which she usually does if she wakes up before I do (which is most days).

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by theretohere

There's a wide difference in charter requirements by state.

Yep. In some states, kids need to do all the work and turn it all in. In some states unenrolling is more complicated than others. And if the reason you did it was to get all the cool stuff, turning all back in can be painful.

I'm not knocking it, really. I'm just saying that if someone is going to use it, they should do their research and go in with their eyes wide open.

just curious -- for those who use it and like, how long have you been using it and what grades are you kids using? I wonder if the grades one is using makes a difference, or just the charter you are going through.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Yep. In some states, kids need to do all the work and turn it all in. In some states unenrolling is more complicated than others. And if the reason you did it was to get all the cool stuff, turning all back in can be painful.

I'm not knocking it, really. I'm just saying that if someone is going to use it, they should do their research and go in with their eyes wide open.

just curious -- for those who use it and like, how long have you been using it and what grades are you kids using? I wonder if the grades one is using makes a difference, or just the charter you are going through.

I think the grade levels do make a difference, we tried CAVA last year in 1st grade and it was a nightmare to the point that even if we stay with CAVA for a couple years I will not enroll younger dd until 2nd grade. There was just soooo much work! Most of it was the language arts/phonics stuff making it such a nightmare, oh yes, the music and art lessons were awful too! Plus we had a teacher from hell who demanded to see 5 hours worth of busy work a day when we met with her and it was just ridiculous. I pulled her out within 2 months.

We moved and decided to give it another try after talking to a lot of families. Were doing 2nd grade now and the work load is way less then last year and no crazy teacher wanting all the busy work. 1st grade we were spending 8-12 hours a day trying to keep up, now we do like 2 hours and were moving ahead. The only thing I don't like is the fact that they made us start at the beginning of 2nd even though we were 3 months into the school year so were still playing catch up but were getting there without much difficulty. We've only been doing CAVA this year for about 2 months but this time around has been nothing like the nightmare of last year.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Yep. In some states, kids need to do all the work and turn it all in. In some states unenrolling is more complicated than others. And if the reason you did it was to get all the cool stuff, turning all back in can be painful.

I'm not knocking it, really. I'm just saying that if someone is going to use it, they should do their research and go in with their eyes wide open.

just curious -- for those who use it and like, how long have you been using it and what grades are you kids using? I wonder if the grades one is using makes a difference, or just the charter you are going through.

I definitely think it's important to know what you're getting into. Here, we definitely don't have the 5 hours in school requirement that MN has, although there is a "Community Day" option for families who decide they want to use it (a 5ish hour, one day a week, school type experience. I don't really know what goes on there, as I decided against it when I heard they said the pledge of allegiance . ) Anyhow, I can unenroll any time I feel like it and certainly would if I felt it was infringing upon my ability to be automous in my kids' education.

Anyhow, as to the ages/grade levels - I have two kids with CAVA, and they are 5 (technically in K, but in 1st grade language arts and math, and nearing the completion of the other K curriculum, so will probably be at all 1st grade level come january) and 7 (was in 1st grade at his B&M charter school last year, but is now in 3rd grade and moving into 4th grade curriculum).

For DD, it's really very little time spent. The things that they are expected to know by the end of a lesson are things she usually already knows, or can learn with a simple explanation (for example, the science lesson yesterday was about conserving electricity and water - the only things she was expected to be able to do by the end of the lesson was one way to conserve each thing, and the difference between conserving and wasting) - so if she's not in the mood to do the lesson, we don't do it and if she already knows the material, I just check off the lesson. If she doesn't know it, I figure out how to workt he concepts into something else we're doing for the day. She hates their music program, so I just talk about the lesson objectives when we're listening to other music (Like, what's the tempo of this song? Fast or slow? What would it sound like faster? What about slower?) and then check it off. She's not a fan of the art projects in the art lessons (though she doesn't mind the art history part of it) so we only do them if she feels like it. We only have to show one sample at the face to face, so if she decides to do any projects, we make sure to take one. If she were to not choose to do any, I would look through the art she does on her own and pick something that was similar enough to their projects to slap a lesson # on it and take that in. We don't do the phonics program at all, because she's reading at least a year ahead of level - maybe two. For literature, we read the stories and talk about the suggested questions, and she does whatever parts of the lessons seem apealing (she doesn't like to be pushed into art, so she hates the lessons that ask her to illustrate a story, but she might later sit down and write or draw something related to what we studied.) For math, we almost never use the work book. She's pretty intuitive with math so far, so I'll usually just give her the assessment - written if she feels like it, orally if she prefers - and move on. If it's something I'm not sure she's enountered before, I'll do my own little lesson based on their suggestions and talk to her about it or use manipulatives until I think she gets it.

For ds, he's pretty self motivated and does a lot on his own. He knows what's on his schedule from logging in, and I don't have to do much encouraging. I discuss things with him, but he chooses which parts he wants to do, and asks for help when he thinks he needs it.

I think it would be very difficult if a charter required doing and/or turning in every piece of work. I would not have signed up for something like that, and if my charter ever changed to require that, I'd be out in a half a second. I also think it's easy for us because my kids are, as the charter puts it, advanced learners. They're ahead of grade level, so if they "slack off" for awhile, it's no big deal. It's also not difficult for them to get the concepts CAVA/k12 expects them to learn. If my kids were struggling, I'd probably go in a different direction. As it is, I doubt I will enroll my youngest the first year he's elligible, unless he changes a lot.

[elizawill]

in the state of SC you need to log 5 hours. it's not the charter school school, but my state that created that stipulation. i had actually enrolled with connections academy but withdrew in august before school started when i found out about the 5 hours (6 hours for kids over grade 3). i posted about it back then & was freaking out. however, i will say...it's not as bad as it seems. i've since found out that you don't need to log "what" yo do to create those 5 hours at all. you aren't accountable for writing it down and such (which was my biggest issue!! i didn't want to tally time all day with my child). you just check off the lesson and type 5 hours in attendance. like k12, you have to turn in several assignments each month, but they are simple assignments. anyway, i can't speak for other states but that's the deal here with logging hours - it's not expected to be seatwork. the teachers know it only takes a couple of hours to complete assignments and they leave the other 3 hours at the discretion of the parents with no explanation needed. hth.