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UC Sypport thread - Page 9  

post #161 of 234
Liz wrote: "I am curious about how many people planning unassisted birth are also avoiding most of the usual prenatal care. Are there any people here who aren't using any kind of MW or OB for prenatal checkups at all?"

Last time the only professional consulting I got was to determine the position of the baby and placenta by palpation and doppler. The baby was clearly head-down and the placenta up high. If there had been any doubt, I would have probably went for an ultrasound.

But no check-ups. I was in very good health and understood what signs of problems to look for, so had a hard time thinking of anything else a doctor or midwife could do for me that I couldn't do for myself.

Will do the same next time around.
post #162 of 234
Blueviolet,

That is interesting, I did not know that about the neocortex. I guess I should have mentioned in my post that I had specifically asked my husband to do those things beforehand. I really craved a lot of touch and positive feedback from him. I know what worked great for me isn't going to work for everyone. Anyway, thanks for posting that info, I will keep that in mind as an option if I'm ever invited to help out at a friends birth.

I hope the baby is here!
post #163 of 234
update!

after a longa$$ labor, mom and baby are happily nursing!
i'll let thechrysalis fill in the rest later.
thank you all for your support!
oh, and thanks to all of you who pm'ed me or tried to pm me when my inbox was full.
post #164 of 234
Can't wait to hear chrysalis' story! Also very exciting for those of us early enough in pg still to be thinking, "was that gas?"

I am still considering things here. I have noticed there are some here who don't do any prenatal care, as someone recently replied, but do you do your own, as in use urine dipsticks monthly and so on? With my first daughter I got prenatal care at 4-5 months and from then on, and with my last pg I had an u/s at 10 weeks- it has really changed my perspective, and I am not completely happy with it. I really want someone to find the heartbeat at least to make sure "everything's ok." I wasn't like this at all with my daughter, when I had no u/s and nothing I didn't have to have (like intake blood work). I declined and always decline HIV testing, triple screen, etc. But this time I have been struggling with urges to have those things done.
post #165 of 234
wooooo! congratulations Chrysalis!

Hey Misty, you might want to do an internet search for Michel Odent and Sarah Buckley, they've both written great articles on this subject.

Liz -- you could buy a fetascope so you could listen to the baby yourself...

So how did the ultrasound change your perspective?
post #166 of 234
Interestingly, the u/s has caused, I think, this current feeling of wanting to know "everything's ok" from some outside source. Part of why I haven't gotten prenatal care yet (or told the family until this evening, 19 weeks this week) is that I would really have wanted an amnio and all the bloodwork. Though I am definitely a homebirth leave-well-enough-alone person, seeing the u/s last time (at ten weeks) was fun, certainly, but also not fun in a kind of creepy way. It is difficult to explain. I also think my work is having this effect. Though I disagree soundly with *so* much of what I see in hospital births and inductions, continuous EFM and epidurals, etc, the culture of "just in case," which I know to be completely false, has an effect on those who are exposed to it.

I had a bizarre experience at a cesarean recently (induction at 40 weeks +3 days, which they now call "postdates," head not even dropped, babe practically transverse, epidural administered before pit, even!). After the surgery, my client was going to have a sedative, and said, look, if you want to go I'm ok now. I said, well, of course I'll see you in recovery, but I am going to go use the restroom, have a drink, freshen up, etc. She said fine.

I went to the door of the OR and couldn't get it open! I didn't know if it was stuck or locked or what, at first. Then I had the handle up and pushed when i should have pulled, or vice versa. Anyway between the lateness of the hour, the stupid mask and all this confusion with the door, and the foot coverings, I slipped and fell on the OR floor.

I was mortified! I lay for a moment, since that's what you do when you fall, to make sure you're ok. I was also just like, oh my god, I do not believe I fell in the g--d-mned operating room! (I love to watch surgery though I am never reconciled to unnecessary cesareans, and I never feel faint or squeamish)

The anesthesiologist started shouting "just lie there, don't move! We need a stretcher! Check her vitals! We'll get someone to take her down to emergency." One nurse put a blanket under my head and I laughed and said, I'm fine, just pregnant (meaning such a clumsy ass I fell in the operating room). Everyone is shouting at me that I've passed out! I was so offended.

Meanwhile they have me lying on this freezing, filthy floor in an OR! Finally I sat up and the anesthesiologist started shouting at me again, and said I had to be "processed" in the ER (like Camazotz in Wrinkle in Time!!). I ruefully shook my head and said, "look, I'm sorry but I'm not going to consent to that. I'm just not. I'm fine." I insisted on getting up and there was a wheelchair outside which I thought a nurse was going to force me into! I had to say "let go of my arm, please, thank you, but I'm quite fine."

Long story short, it turned into a huge scene with hospital personnel trying to get me to sign a blank sheet of paper! "We'll just write in that you refused medical treatment!" I said to myself, you must really think I hit my head!

Another smack-in-the-face reminder of why I have never, since childhood, wanted to birth in hospital. Not one person asked me if I was all right, except the surgeon said wryly, "someone rub the doula's back, please."

The nurses were all thrilled at the scandal: "the doula fainted!" I was so angry I marched around waiting for my client to come out of recovery with my soda in hand, evading the nasty charge nurse who'd decided I was a lunatic who needed to be removed from the hospital.

But also- how sad, that things have gotten so bad someone can't trip and it not be regarded as an emergency.

I would probably prefer a midwife to be present, but it's early days yet. I think I would rather give birth privately, alone in a room, but with a mw and family nearby if support were needed. Is anyone here considering that?

As well as regular homebirth supplies, what steps do unassisted birth folks here plan to take to prepare for minor but common needs like too much bleeding after the birth, or a slow placenta, or a dystocia?
post #167 of 234
Congratulation Chrysallis and I cannot wait to hear about your birth story!

Seems like someone asked about whether we were seeing someone for pre-natal care. I live in a socialized country, so some things aren't as flexible for me. At least if I want all of my benefits. We get over 800€ in order to prepare for the arrival of a baby. In order to get this money, we have to send in a form that we get from an OB before 14 weeks and then send in some other stuff later. So, if I want the money, I have to do some things. Of course, no one has to pay very much to get the things done. I don't have to pay at all with our income level. When I had a pre-natal appointment here when I was pregnant with my DS, I could have filed papers to have my insurance pay for it, but my co-pay actually was more than paying the doctor outright here without being insured in the French system. That would be different now because of the lowness of the dollar, but co-pays in the US have probably gone up also. So, it's not like me getting pre-natal care costs me money. It actually gets me money so that I can buy some new dipes and slings (as opposed to the French people who buy bottles and strollers with it).

There is some blood-testing that I can just give the OB former records for and he'll do the paperwork with that. Other things, like an HIV test, has to be done now. It doesn't cost me anything and it's just a blood draw, so I don't mind having it done. It's not like France would do anything to me if it's positive (but I already know it's negative - no question there), it's just that they want it done for the care of any babies that are born to HIV+ mothers to prevent the baby from getting it. There are some things, like vaccines, that I will doctor shop for and argue with the doctor about to try to get around, but blood screening isn't one of them. Just isn't that high of a priority to me.

We don't have to have ultra-sounds, but I had one yesterday because I was worried I was further along than I am and I had had a dental x-ray before becoming pregnant, which was making me worry more. That was my decision and I might not have made that decision if it wasn't for the x-ray and that someone very close to me had a hydro baby once and I was worried about why I popped out so early. It's just my uterus is in a bit of an odd position and it alleviated my worries. I know lots of people on the boards don't do ultrasounds, but I've had so many ultra-sounds between my pregnancies (miscarriages) that I guess I'm kind of in that over-medicalized bunch. Even though I want to UC. :

I'm thinking about doing the birth at my MIL's house unless we happen to find a place to live a bit away from this town. MIL is a bit nervous about me UCing and knows a lot more people than we do. There is a naturopath (husband and wife couple) about 10 minutes from her house that she is friends with. If I do the birth there, they will know that I am in labor and MIL will be telephoning them to let them know how it is going. Since it will be summer, I'm planning on being in the back of her yard, which has a creek and waterfall and then a very steep foothill that pretty much goes straight up a hundred and fifty feet. I'm really hoping it will be the day so that this is do-able. I'm okay if one of them (MIL will probably have it be the wife) gets there right about when the baby is born just in case. Maybe some people would not consider this a UC, but I figure she would be with MIL in the house, which is a fair distance from the creek.

Which brings me to a question - MIL once had a children's pool that was by the creek, but in the sun, that she would fill up using creek water. The creek water is pottable and runs clear. Do you think it would be okay to fill up the inflatable children's pool that I'm planning on buying to birth in with the creek water, if I run it through a filter first? It's cold water, so I would need to let it sit in the sun for a while before I could actually get in it. But I don't know how else to get water back there unless DH just carried it by bucketfulls.
post #168 of 234
clean it out with a sterilizer of your choice first before filling it for birth. Just because water is potable, doesn't mean that you want to birth in it.
post #169 of 234
Thank you! With a sterilizer, are you meaning tablets, like you would use while backpacking? Or a machine?
post #170 of 234
Quote:
Originally posted by LizD
As well as regular homebirth supplies, what steps do unassisted birth folks here plan to take to prepare for minor but common needs like too much bleeding after the birth, or a slow placenta, or a dystocia?
LizD,
What a terrible, and TELLING, experience. I'm glad you are okay, anyway.

I will answer your three questions, from my viewpoint.
1) too much bleeding: first, I am making sure to not be anemic before birth. Then, no one tugging on a cord, which can so cause hemmhorage (I never can spell that word). In the event it does happen: baby to breast, pronto, if not already there, followed by shepherd's purse as needed.
2) slow placenta: have yet to find accurate information about how slow is slow. Everything I can find (in medicaized info) says an hour, but I can find ZERO justification for that seemingly arbitrary time limit. I am prepared to wait some time if need be, unless there is some indication that there is a problem.
3)dystocia: really, a non-problem in my mind. The Gaskin Maneuver (I hate calling it that--she didn't invent it!) is said to work 99% of the time. I am alsousing The Pink Kit to learn many subtle manuvers in my pelvis to get a baby "unstuck" from various positions.

I realize you were probably only asking about those in particular as examples, but I thought telling you were I was on those things would give you the idea that you really don't have to leave the "danger situations"to chance, the way so many seem to think. And that a lot of the "problems" we've come to expect while birthing are not necessarally problems if no one is there to inflict them on you. KWIM?

Well, I had another topic t writeabout, but I'm now typing one-handed as ds is in my lap!
post #171 of 234
Liz wrote: "I would probably prefer a midwife to be present, but it's early days yet. I think I would rather give birth privately, alone in a room, but with a mw and family nearby if support were needed. Is anyone here considering that?

As well as regular homebirth supplies, what steps do unassisted birth folks here plan to take to prepare for minor but common needs like too much bleeding after the birth, or a slow placenta, or a dystocia?"

Hi Liz,

I did consider having a midwife friend stay nearby. Our house is small and has an open plan, so it wouldn't have worked to have her in the house, and we didn't really have anywhere else for her to stay. So I had to take a really good look at why I thought I might need her at all, and.... couldn't come up with anything. For someone else it might be different, though, and for me in a different pregnancy I might come to a different conclusion.

As for supplies, some people might consider this naive, but I believed I wouldn't have any complications of labor. My health was quite good (my midwife friend pronounced me "fantastically healthy!",) and had never before had even a hint of a problem with bleeding. The hormonal process would be uninterfered with, whole, so there was no reason to worry that my body wouldn't come through and function properly. I knew where the placenta was, and I wasn't planning on fiddling with it or the cord after the birth. I knew the birth would be gentle, no exhausted uterus from pushing for hours. Everything has a cause, and logically I couldn't think of any potential cause for hemorrhage in my case. I was aware that my uterus should continue contracting (which breastfeeding would help with) and that if it wasn't I should feel my uterus to see that it was hardening up, and perhaps massage it gently after the placenta was delivered. Supposedly, women who give birth spontaneously in a non-emergency situation (that is, they plan to) will instinctively massage their abdomen.

I wasn't worried about a slow placenta, for the above reasons, plus I expect to be fairly alert after birth, and if I wasn't I would have assumed something was wrong [edited to clarify: this is relevant because the only problem I can see with a slow placenta is that hemorrhage cannot be detected by measuring blood loss if the placenta is plugging up the cervix.] Also, I planned on breastfeeding immediately and squatting to birth the placenta. A "slow" placenta is often about nothing more than the fact that the mother's contractions have lessened and she is lying down. Once the mother breastfeeds or twiddles her nipples (to stimulate the uterus) and squat (to open the pelvic outlet maximally and allow the placenta to fall with gravity) the placenta should come out easily as soon as it has separated, which should be shortly after the birth. I do think that the average time is somewhere around 15 minutes, but that some separate right after the birth, and some take a little longer. Some midwives use tincture of angelica to help separate the placenta, but honestly I don't think it's necessary. Patience, an uninterfered-with process, breastfeeding, and squatting are all that should be necessary.

Like citizenfrog, I believe shoulder dystocia is a complete non-issue for me. I have a roomy pelvis, I birth upright, I don't start pushing just because some "expert" tells me I should -- push too soon and the baby may be forced down into a malpresentation, or not have time to turn properly. The body will not push the baby down itself until everything is in order, and the baby is in the correct position. Basically, the body knows what it's doing most of the time, and anything we add to the process can only complicate matters.
post #172 of 234
Hi everyone...

I have read some of the posts here, but not all as it is so long!
LizD, I loved your story about your experience in the OR and being 'Proccessed'.
I really think that deserves it's own thread in the "I'm Pregnant" forum, as it is relevant to 'pregnancy brain' and is a fine example of the insanity that is commonplace in a hospital. Just a thought, due to all that's going on there now I think homebirth needs more of a voice in that forum.

Anyway, I have been considering UC... blueviolet, thanks, by the way, for your 'birth' link in your sig...but I have to be sneaky about it. I have my first midwife app. in a week (I am 13 weeks), and I don't know what she's like, but I know that CNMs have legal obligations that might put her at odds with my birth wishes, I basically just want her to stay in the next room and assist me if I need it. I don't think she is 'allowed' to do that. My first homebirth went generally well, but the frequent internal exams, nagging questions and unwanted 'coaching' are something I want to avoid this time around. Among other things.
So I am thinking of just not calling her in time...like, oh, it just happened so fast...unfortunately, I know my dh does not support UC. So it would be my own little sneaky plan. I am entirely confident that it would go well. But I wanted to have my dh and daughter there as well.
Maybe I should just go for a nice stroll in the woods and come back with a babe in my arms.....

post #173 of 234
It's just one baby! We found out via U/S today. I'm actually quite relieved. I thought I might feel disappointed, but actually I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I don't know how I would have dealt emotionally and physically with two at a time. Seemed really overwhelming. Plus, with one I feel really good about UC plans.

TheChrysalis -- way to go mamabear! I'm so glad you've brought another little one into the world. Peaceful babymoon to you and your family!

LizD -- Have you checked out this thread? It sounds like what you've described as your ideal birth situation. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=93746 Like so many women here, I feel that birth is best when not messed with. I think guided by inner strength, women do what they need to. If I feel like I need outside support during the birth, then I'll get it. But, I'm holding for a peaceful, gentle, fast birth.

SnowyOwl -- I can relate. That's why I deemed myself the UC mascot a few pages back. I'm seeing a midwife for prenatal and the plan is to call her for the birth. But, I would much prefer to birth with just my husband and possibly my son. I'm doing hypnosis again for this birth and it worked great for Jude's birth. I want it totally painfree this time -- so much so I don't call anyone except my husband when I'm pushing. Oh, and I want the moon, too.
post #174 of 234
Hello everyone. I am a major lurker here, and have read al the posts on this thread. I am 12 weeks along, and hoping that the all day nausea is leaving. I have a 3 y/o dd who will be almost 4 when her sibling joins us.

Dh and I have comitted to UC this time. Dd was a typical hospital birth that I am so sorry for. I have been witness to one UC almost 2 years ago, and will be at another in about a month or so.

I have one question for anyone who might have been through this...How do you deal with rude and disrespectful family members? My mother is giving me a hard time already. I mentioned we have no plans for an attended birth, but for her sake I said I was planning on visiting a MW for a checkup. I asked her to not put her fears and worries on me, and to trust and respect the fact that I am making informed choices. I also asked her to stop asking me so many questions( are you taking vitamins, get an ultrasound, my doctor's nurse says etc... )SHe then hung up on me. GRRRRR She is gerneraly imature and pushy. She lives a little less than 2 hours from here. My question is, should I let it slide, and then in like a month just lie and say we are going with a midwife? It is hard for me to lie about these things, as I normally prefer educating people. I just feel like she will never listen. She thinks we are doing this to be "unconventional". Like that is the only amount of thought process we have put into this decision over the past 2 years.

Well thanks for the vent, and I look forward to all the lovely birth stories.
post #175 of 234
Hi guys,
nak - my boy is here, after 21 hrs of hard labor. I am eternally grateful to my best friend Chrissy, she and my dh (and the help of the MDC mamas that gave her advice) got me through and our sweet boy was born on Monday at 4:33 pm. He weighed 10lbs 4oz and was 22.5" long. He ended up swallowing a lot of amniotic fluid during the birth and was having a lot of problems breathing, so he and I did end up going to the hospital afterwards. The hospital staff was extremely kind to us and I was never once lectured or made to feel bad for our decision to UC. We are both home now and doing great. he is a champion nurser, very alert and strong! Once I figure out how to post a pic, I will.
Thanks for all your good wishes and peaceful birthing vibes!
post #176 of 234
Thechyrsalis--how wonderful! Does he have a name yet? Congratulations and happy baby moon!
post #177 of 234
Congrats, thechrysalis! Can't wait to read your story.
post #178 of 234
thechrysalis congratulations to you and your family! I'm glad all turned out well, happy babymoon.
post #179 of 234
The midwife I would love to work with, whom I have heard about for years and will finally meet tomorrow, is very supportive of UC and will help folks do that if they wish. So I am looking forward to the best of both worlds.

I am sure everyone else here is itching for the whole story from chrysalis, while trying to be patient and polite!

My daughter turns ten today! We just told her and my inlaws the other night. It's pretty cool.
post #180 of 234
Thread Starter 
NAK Congrats thechrysalis! Wow! 10lbs 4 ozes, no wonder he took his time easing on down the road.

Now we both have boys! I posted our birth story then took a hiatus from MDC for a few days due to a horrible kidney infection. I had to break down and go to the Dr. for antibiotics, but I'm feeling much better now. For those of you who haven't read it yet, here's the link: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hreadid=109514

Happy birthday to LizD's daughter. What a great birthday present to get that news.

I'll be here to support the rest of you as you get closer and closer to your arrivals.
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