F&F: The Stigma of Being Poor - Page 2

[gurumama]

You know, it's funny, because I've been both super-low-income (ok, poor ) and now we're comfortable, and NO MATTER WHAT we're judged by our financial choices.

Being poor does carry more stigma, so I'm not trying to discount that. But family and friends often judge no matter what--you're told you're not buying the right food, or questioned on education choices for kids, or for the kind of car you drive, the kind of vacation you take (or not taking a vacation), etc....

We've learned to keep our mouths shut, because so far we haven't met anyone we can talk about finances with objectively, and who won't judge our choices. It sounds like other people have had the same experience--that sadly, it's a part of life we can't share with super-judgmental people in our lives.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by SeekingJoy

I think being poor needs to be normalized and talked about. Poverty doesn't make someone "less than."

I wholeheartedly agree. :

Originally Posted by mommato5

We had been totally self sufficient until now and we are having to get everything we can.

And IMO if you are resourceful enough to USE community resources, and/or whatever means nessicary to provide, you are STILL totally self sufficient.



You know, I once watched an Oprah where she had a economic historian on and he was talking about how people are usually eerily aware of the next rung on the ladder down and scared to death that its going to be them and tend to attach a stigma to them.

My dh still attaches a stigma to poor people even though WE are those people!

He must be in a really bad place right now, man.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by jtsmom

And I also think that the way the economy is going, there won't be a stigma associated with being poor for much longer.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by transformed

My dh still attaches a stigma to poor people even though WE are those people!

He must be in a really bad place right now, man.

: My dh has a hard time with our financial situation.

I think he internalizes it as his fault because he should be able to provide better.

[texmati]

I'm sorry mamas. I come from a large extended family where we don't talk about money much. Which is kinda nice because people don't get into your business as much, but there is sometimes expectations thatpeople can't meet. (Like eating out.)

AngelBee-- I just wanted to let you know that I love your siggy, and I've always admired your posts. And finally, congratulations!

[Llyra]

I remember when I got pregnant this last time my idiot stepfather went around one day at a family gathering telling everybody what a sorry shame it was I was having another kid when I "couldn't support the one I already had." And I'm not even really all that poor-- marginal, but we are certainly supporting ourselves with help from nobody. And this is before we knew I was having twins, too. I was livid, and humiliated, all at the same time.

I grew up dirt poor. It sucks, and the part that sucks the worst is the stigma, and the way the world seems like it's stacked up to make poor people even poorer.

[Emmeline II]

When we left the military, moved in with the in-laws and were saving to not be living with the in-laws, MIL would talk about when they were young and poor newly-weds eating spaghetti...with their help we were not in that boat : and MIL would say that she was glad we could take advantage of the programs she was paying into all those years (not much, WIC for a bit and state medical care for a bit, then dh's gross went up $20...).

[happyhats]

I don't have any problems with friends and family, really. I'm lucky in that regard- most of my friends are in the same situations financially or close to it, and my family has been there before. I do think our society in general has a stigma against low income people. There is such a pressure to buy, buy, buy and a feeling that you are a lesser human being if you can't. I know this affects a lot of people, not just those that truly struggle, but when you combine that with the stigmas of needing any aid, well it can be really burdensome. There seems to be an ideal in our culture that just being higher income means you DESERVE more. It's not that you can afford more, you somehow seem to have more rights and entitlement, kwim?

[freespirited]

I totally know how you mamas are feeling! My own stepdad seems to have little empathy/sympathy for my situation and I think he thinks I should be working even if my daycare costs would be ridiculous vs. my wage, and that's IF I could find a job. Dh makes very little for a family of four so we get partial food stamps. Yes, I freaking bought a plasma TV for $699 on my credit card that we are trying to make extra payments for. Apparently my parents didn't exactly agree with that but gosh, all we do is stay home and watch TV, we never go out on dates or anything. I wish stepdad wouldn't judge me! We do the best we can. I try to be frugal. I buy my kids clothing and diapers, etc, and they do not contribute. I really thought they were going to, but my mom got dementia and my stepdad is not allowing her to buy stuff for her grandkids, I am sure because he thinks I am undeserving somehow. It reeks. OTOH, my in-laws are completely empathetic to us and help us out in anyway they could before they ran into serious financial troubles of their own, but they were always western-unioning cash here and there to us for whatever we could use it for. That is what I thought parents do, even with adult children. We all know how expensive it is to raise kids these days.

Some of my friends are in great career fields and are very comfortable. I have no doubt that they would love to invite us to do more things with them but they are afraid we can't afford it. They are pretty much right. They wanted to go camping with us but we couldn't afford a tent or sleeping bags, so they went alone. Being poor stinks. I just try to compare myself with 80% of the world instead of the people I know who are doing so well for themselves. That always makes me feel better.

[Jilian]

I'm sorry your MIL is being rude. I see nothing wrong with reaching out for help from various organizations when you need it, that is what they are there for.

We're not completely broke but we've certainly had to cut out all of the extras and my mom gets upset when we don't want to do joint family vacations, go out to dinner, etc. She gets really mad and doesn't understand why we don't :just put it on the credit card". It is hard when those that we love can't understand.

[justmama]

*Awaiting edit from member*

[ediesmom]

i think the thing about being poor that bothers me most is the kids....

my dd is the only 'poor' one in the group. she's the one without.....she's well dressed and clean....but

being poor, for me, brings out a frugality that i am actually (mostly) proud of....

and, the huge amount of gratitude i feel that i have my food stamp card to feed my family cancels out any negativity




op....don't let it get to you. i'm glad your dh doesn't buy into his mothers attitude.

[orangefoot]

Originally Posted by ediesmom

i think the thing about being poor that bothers me most is the kids....

my dd is the only 'poor' one in the group. she's the one without.....she's well dressed and clean....but

being poor, for me, brings out a frugality that i am actually (mostly) proud of....

I feel this too. My youngest two aren't too aware other than the fact that I say 'Not today' to them a lot when we are out and about and they want to buy things but my ds who is 15 is feeling that it just isn't funny anymore. My 11yo is happy if he's reading so that's not too bad!

He didn't tell me that his shoes were uncomfortable, he has had the same coat for 3 years and I finally had to make him choose a new one last month because it was getting really cold, he turns down invites to the cinema or into town because we just can't afford to give him money to spend. We live in a tiny house and have no room for all his mates to come over and hang out and we have no XBOX 360 for them to game on if they did.

I am frugal and creative but I can't make him clothes to wear by repurposing like I do for the girls and he is surrounded by those who 'have' all the time. His only pluses at the moment are what he calls 'his loving family' and the fact that he gets very tasty homemade lunches that all his mates are in awe of.

[Usually Curious]

Originally Posted by SeekingJoy

Being poor does suck. We have had better times and worse times, and right now we are ok (thankfully) as long as DH can keep his job.

I have tried for the last several years the opposite approach. Instaed of not discussing money, I talk very honestly and openly about it. To lots of people. It is just money. It isn't a reflection of me as a person, my values, my work ethic, my character.

We had it out with MIL at DS' birthday a few weeks ago. Party was rained out so it moved inside our (tiny) house. She kept complaining about the house being too small. Why didn't we have it at one of the bounce-houses in town. Um, because we don't have that kind of money? We support our entire family on less money that she makes a year.

When I said it out loud, without make excuses or being apologetic, she changed her tune quickly. I think being poor needs to be normalized and talked about. Poverty doesn't make someone "less than."

I agree! This is what we do. Three years ago my dh was laid off from his corporate job and our income dropped DRASTICALLY. When he found a job, one year later, it was at about 60% of what he made in corporate America. We talk about it a lot. I am not ashamed.

DH's family likes to go out for $60/person celebration dinners and the like. Hmmm, with five kids, a disabled ward and us - I think not. They sometimes go without us and sometimes go 'cheap' for us.

When push comes to shove they do not understand and that's okay. We have different values. They have pools and sports cars but will be alone when they are old. We will drive clunkers, but be surrounded by lovely, happy grandchildren when we are old.

[freespirited]

*Awaiting edit from member*

[mommato5]

Then there is the "you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford them" spoken by the same people who are anti-abortion.

For me, I feel like we can't because of feeling like we are now going to be dependent upon others. I don't care if someone else does it and would rather see them use it if they need it for this. My brother got onto me because I told him it was why we couldn't have another. How do you get past that mindset??? I feel like having another one is now off the table and I'm really upset about it.

[freespirited]

Originally Posted by mommato5

For me, I feel like we can't because of feeling like we are now going to be dependent upon others. I don't care if someone else does it and would rather see them use it if they need it for this. My brother got onto me because I told him it was why we couldn't have another. How do you get past that mindset??? I feel like having another one is now off the table and I'm really upset about it.

I actually didn't want another baby because of our financial struggles, but I never, ever wanted to have an abortion. It was truly a surprise. I had to have ovulated extremely early that month, probably due to stress. We had used the awareness method for 7 years and with our two girls we had eased up on it, but this time we were totally careful. I couldn't believe it. I absolutely don't trust it now. It saddens me to think that this child didn't have a chance because of money. I was really depressed already too, because of money. I'm sure the judgemental person would simply say "adoption" but I would not have been able to give away my daughters' sibling. It is no easy solution. Dh was really down on himself at the time for being unemployed and he pushed me a little to get the procedure because we couldn't even take care of ourselves. He had put in countless apps everywhere. He finally landed a job 2 months ago. The guy who hired him showed dh his stack of apps 2 feet high sitting on his desk and said "all these people wanted your job." It is amazingly tough out there. We both regret what we did but felt so much pressure to do it. My parents know and they were both upset but neither had come forth to offer financial help were we to keep it. It just kind of blows my mind.

[justmama]

Sarah, Sometimes we have difficult choices to make in our lives and you did what you knew how to do and what worked. No shame in that. I'm sorry it makes you sad. But I do get where you are coming from on having 3 children and swiping your foodstamps card. I'm there, every bit of it.

orangefoot, I think that's the thing I'm really worried about with my girls. I worry that my oldest(who sounds like yours) will just stop asking for things and stop wanting and dreaming. She already won't ask friends over and doesn't tell me when she's got huge holes in her socks or her shoes are too tight or she's cold with a thin jacket. And she's just 8. I worry what it will be like in a few years. I wish I could say we will be financially better off then but it's likely we won't. I'm single and can't afford the childcare to get a job and financially it wouldn't make sense to get a job anyway. I've crunched the numbers, I've looked into it. Maybe a heart-to-heart with your son about money would help him and you? Sometimes M will sit down with me when her sisters are in bed and the house is quiet and she'll tell me about her day and about so-and-so's new outfit or toy at school and you can see how sad she is. And when we talk about WHY we are poor(i never badmouth her dad obviously, just stating the reasons like that it's more important for me to be home with them than it is to have lots of money working a job i hate and leaving them with strangers all day) it seems like she gets it. But she seems to get pretty down about the stigma attached with poverty.

[orangefoot]

We do talk about our situation because we have our own business which is our day to day converstaion and our life has changed quite radically since dh stopped earning a salary almost 3 years ago. Everything generated by the business goes on business bills and debt repayments.

He knows that when it comes to shoes and coats I will buy them with a credit card because there isn't money in the bank for anything other than bills and food atm. I am trying to pay him money through the business for things like filing and statement posting every month so that helps him a bit.

He could have free school meals but he won't let me apply for them becuase he would have to show a card and queue up for them.

We are buying our Christmas with dh's govt payment which we are entitled to for low earnings. Our mortgage is covered by the family element of our low pay benefit and everything else is debt. It will get better but the promised land seems far off! If dh had stayed in his job in real estate he would probably be unemployed right now and we would be in a hopeless situation.At least doing what we are doing we have hope and are incontrol of our destiny to a great extent.

And yes, we had a fourth child when we started up the business and some friends actually told us that they thought we were being foolish.

Sarah People don't understand

[KariM]

It does suck to have less than others think we should have. I feel greatly blessed with what we have, yet constantly get pressure and criticism from others (my parents and sister being the loudest critics).

We have been extremely blessed to not need to use any community/government programs right now, but I have used them in the past when I was a single mama and they're there just.exactly.for.people.to.use!

((((big hugs)))) to all of the mamas who are feeling stigmatized because of their financial situation.