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I tried to transfer a balance from one CC to another and got screwed, what do i do now? - Page 2  

post #21 of 37
12/6/08 at 9:49pm
I disagree that there is nothing you can do -- although you may be stuck in the end.

Payments used to be considered on time if they are postmarked by the payment due date -- regardless of whether they tell you you have to mail it 3-5 days in advance. There have been a number of consumer-unfriendly changes in the law over the past decade, it wouldn't surprise me if it had changed. If you've ever heard "the check is in the mail," that's where that came from.

I had a charge reversed for example, when I mailed out 3-4 payments on the same day, and all but one was credited within 2 days -- and that one was credited a week late. Things that truly get "lost" in the mail don't get found -- so there's almost no chance the payment took 9 days to arrive.

If they aren't willing to work with you, check with your state attorney general's office to see if there are any regulations governing payments sent by mail. If BoA is willing to agree that it sent out the payment on the first, that's more than enough time to process your transaction. If it's true that Credit Care did hold the transaction and intentionally process it in order to charge you fees, that's almost certainly illegal -- the rub is proving it.

Good luck.
post #22 of 37
12/6/08 at 11:17pm
I just wanted to say that I am pretty sure that Care Credit sits on checks. We used to have one for a Lasic Surgery for my DH, with the promotional balance and all. Anyways, at that point in my life I always mailed paper checks from home. One night I would sit down and write all the checks, get the envelopes and then mail the stack. It never failed that the Care Credit ones would post days, if not a week, after the other checks mailed on the same day going the same distance. Yuck. Anyways, I always made a point to make sure and pay Care Credit WAY in advance just because I knew that they were sitting on checks. And any single late payment will kick you out of the promotional period. So I personally think they are trying to make people be late. (((Hugs))) it really sucks.
post #23 of 37
12/6/08 at 11:43pm
If there are a bunch of complaints about Care Credit, I'd look into reporting them to your state Attorney General. If they really are sitting on checks to penalize you for large sums, they could be violating the law. Anyway, it is free and easy to file a complaint online.

So it took 11 business days for Care Credit to get and process the check. That does seem a bit long especially since Sat is a mail day. It is too late now but I do stuff like that a month in advance because I assume banks are slow in their own self-interest. I'm cynical that way though.
post #24 of 37
12/7/08 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris' Mom View Post
I disagree that there is nothing you can do -- although you may be stuck in the end.

Payments used to be considered on time if they are postmarked by the payment due date -- regardless of whether they tell you you have to mail it 3-5 days in advance. There have been a number of consumer-unfriendly changes in the law over the past decade, it wouldn't surprise me if it had changed. If you've ever heard "the check is in the mail," that's where that came from.

I had a charge reversed for example, when I mailed out 3-4 payments on the same day, and all but one was credited within 2 days -- and that one was credited a week late. Things that truly get "lost" in the mail don't get found -- so there's almost no chance the payment took 9 days to arrive.

If they aren't willing to work with you, check with your state attorney general's office to see if there are any regulations governing payments sent by mail. If BoA is willing to agree that it sent out the payment on the first, that's more than enough time to process your transaction. If it's true that Credit Care did hold the transaction and intentionally process it in order to charge you fees, that's almost certainly illegal -- the rub is proving it.

Good luck.
Did some digging on this. There was a Postmarked Prompt Payment bill in 1995, but it never made it into law. There was a similar bill in South Carolina in 2001-2002 - I think it died too, but not sure. There is currently a Credit Card Reform Act in the works - not yet law.

As regards reporting them to the state attorney - definitely. By the sounds of it, someone will already have reported them, so the more people involved, the better. In the UK, if I had sufficient knowledge of other cases, I'd go speak to my MP (roughly equivalent to a Senator) as well.
post #25 of 37
12/7/08 at 1:15am
OP I am really sorry that this is happening. I would do whatever I woulcd, including writing a letter to Care Credit.

Thank you for posting about this...I will be very careful in the future after reading your story
post #26 of 37
12/7/08 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetown HB Mom View Post
I called nine days in advance. I hardly think that is waiting until the last minute.
I would consider anything within 20-25 days would be last minute.

For a situation like this were one is looking at a considerable amout of interest being applied, I would have done this at least 30-45 days in advance. Personally, I would have wanted a full "billing cycle" to have passed with a zero balance as well as a full billing cycle on the new account just to ensure that everything was fully handled and in place.

As you are learning now, things don't always happen in what you consider a timely manner. Yes the USPS should be able to deliver within a certain stated time frame, but I know I've had many pieces of mail delayed along the way for no seen reason.
post #27 of 37
12/8/08 at 1:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCsMom View Post
I just wanted to say that I am pretty sure that Care Credit sits on checks. We used to have one for a Lasic Surgery for my DH, with the promotional balance and all. Anyways, at that point in my life I always mailed paper checks from home. One night I would sit down and write all the checks, get the envelopes and then mail the stack. It never failed that the Care Credit ones would post days, if not a week, after the other checks mailed on the same day going the same distance. Yuck. Anyways, I always made a point to make sure and pay Care Credit WAY in advance just because I knew that they were sitting on checks. And any single late payment will kick you out of the promotional period. So I personally think they are trying to make people be late. (((Hugs))) it really sucks.
If they are sitting on checks, you probably have some recourse. At least you can ask them when it was delivered, ect. I'm *sure* that there has to be at least some regulatoin on how quickly they have to process checks.
post #28 of 37
12/8/08 at 12:48pm
Is there somewhere that you can file a complaint against them?
post #29 of 37
12/8/08 at 12:59pm
unless the bank sent the cheque registered mail, signature required, or delivery confirmation the op has no way to proove what day the cheque got to the bank.
post #30 of 37
12/8/08 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF View Post
unless the bank sent the cheque registered mail, signature required, or delivery confirmation the op has no way to proove what day the cheque got to the bank.
And I think that THIS is the problem.

Although the USPS says it 'usually' takes 2-3 business days for delivery of mail, timeframes can vary widely. I've run into this a number of times when buying/selling items. Last month, it took 2 weeks for a Priority Mail package to get to me. The USPS does not guarantee delivery times for first class or priority mail.

So while Care Credit probably DID sit on the check for awhile before depositing it, you have no way of proving it.

post #31 of 37
12/8/08 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF View Post
unless the bank sent the cheque registered mail, signature required, or delivery confirmation the op has no way to proove what day the cheque got to the bank.
Correct, and even if you had proof it arrived on "x" day, that is no gaurentee that it would be opened and processed on the same day. I know with my BF's company they get mail every day, but do not necessarily process it every day as they are working on a backlog often of incoming stuff and it takes a few days to get from the mail room to the person that needs to process. Even then, they might be working on Monday's mail and it's Wednesday now.
post #32 of 37
12/8/08 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denvergirlie View Post
I would consider anything within 20-25 days would be last minute.

For a situation like this were one is looking at a considerable amout of interest being applied, I would have done this at least 30-45 days in advance. Personally, I would have wanted a full "billing cycle" to have passed with a zero balance as well as a full billing cycle on the new account just to ensure that everything was fully handled and in place.

As you are learning now, things don't always happen in what you consider a timely manner.
Yes, to this. i'm afraid that your personal belief/idea as to how far in advance is enough time is simply...not reasonable. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but this is the world we live in. 7 business days is simply NOT enough time to guarantee something like that is going to happen.

Unfortunately for you..I absolutely believe care credit sat on the check to make it late. i also believe there is absolutely nothing you can possibly do to PROVE that. even if you get proof of when BofA (also evil in their own right, i agree!) mailed it..you can not possibly present any proof of when CC received it. And even if the "average" or "expected" transit time for it would have been 2 or 3 days, according to the post office, there is still no guarantee YOUR letter/check took that amount of time..it easily could have taken 5 or 7 or yes, 10 days. happens all the time. The PO will totally tell you so. So I can not think of any possible way for yout to prove CC received the check on time.
Sadly..I think the PP's are right, this will end up being an expensive lesson.
When we dealt with CC, we got a letter sent to us the cycle prior to the fees being added stating specifically that our balance was paid off, and we called a couple days prior and talked with a rep, who looked up our account and verfied again that indeed our balance was zero. We recorded him.
I had been burned badly before when i was younger with a CC company and so we take LOTS of precautions now.
post #33 of 37
12/9/08 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denvergirlie View Post
Correct, and even if you had proof it arrived on "x" day, that is no gaurentee that it would be opened and processed on the same day. I know with my BF's company they get mail every day, but do not necessarily process it every day as they are working on a backlog often of incoming stuff and it takes a few days to get from the mail room to the person that needs to process. Even then, they might be working on Monday's mail and it's Wednesday now.

The Fair Credit Billing Act (1986)
§ 164. Prompt crediting of payments
ôŹ°›Payments received from an obligor under an open end
consumer credit plan by the creditor shall be posted promptly
to the obligor's account as specified in regulations of the Board.
Such regulations shall prevent a finance charge from being
imposed on any obligor if the creditor has received the
obligor's payment in readily identifiable form in the amount,
manner, location, and time indicated by the creditor to avoid
the imposition thereof.15 USC 1666c.

i.e. payments must be credited on the day they are received (subject to a reasonable time cutoff), unless no charges would be incurred as a result of the delay.

It does not say whether the onus is the customer or on the company to prove date of receipt... more digging needed!
post #34 of 37
12/9/08 at 11:42pm
Quote:
It does not say whether the onus is the customer or on the company to prove date of receipt... more digging needed!
It will be on the customer as she is the one who is responsible for payment getting there in time.
post #35 of 37
12/10/08 at 2:45am
I don't know if this will help you but I have a slightly different "take" on this.

For the sake of discussion, if push came to shove and one of the Parties here were to sue one of the others I believe this would belong in Federal Court, since this involves Banking and interstate transactions. Therefore, I would look to the Federal Rules of Evidence for guidance.

I think that "Industry Standards" in general and Care Credit's specific "business practices" as well as the U.S. Postal Service delivery "time frames" create rebuttable presumptions that establish some parameters here. To put it differently, while it does make good sense as a consumer to not rely upon the above, the smooth operation of the business world really depends upon these standards and businesses more or less complying with them most of the time.

At the risk of stating the obvious, there are occasions when you'll have competing "presumptions". E.g.: company A claims they always send a written response to any correspondence within 2 days of receiving it and they use their procedure manual to establish the business practice and a date stamped copy of the correspondence to show when the clock started ticking. And company B uses their procedure manual and a date stamped copy of company A's response to their correspondence --in conjunction with the post mark cancellation as well as USPS' projected delivery time frames-- to rebut that presumption and attempt to establish a conflicting presumption.

If I'm not mistaken First Class mail is supposed to be delivered within 2 to 3 days. I believe there is a "rebuttable presumption" of delivery on or before 3 days and the USPS time standards would explain why. Of course that depends upon when BoA sent the check. So, without being confrontational about it, I would ask them if --as a matter of customer service to you-- they can provide a copy of the cancelled check. In any case, I would check your BoA statement to see when the charge appeared on your account. If it was on the 1st or the 2nd then I think you may have a pretty good argument.

Care Credit might try to rebut the presumption that they received it within 2 or 3 days of when the charge appeared on your account. My assumption here is that they wouldn't place the charge against your account until the check actually went out. But you should ask BoA what, if any, business practice or procedure they have which addresses this. Their response might put the two credit card companies in something of a pointing contest. But arguably that shouldn't be your problem. Of course, that only works in theory since this is very definitely your problem.

I can't speak for the Banking Industry but in the field of insurance (whether it's Underwriting or Claims) mail is oftentimes date stamped by the clerical staff in order to document when something was actually received in case there is a substantial delay between the date of mailing and date of receipt.

I would strongly encourage you to put a point by point time line together and start keeping track of who you talk with and when and what you learned when you spoke with them. Once you have a better idea of what happened and who really dropped the ball I would follow up with a letter of complaint, as a customer, to the offending company(ies). Ultimately you may need to complain to the appropriate government agency (see below).

Good luck. See links below.

If the first post on this site is correct then it looks like you might be able to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and Office of Thrift Supervision. But I would do some more fact gathering first.

Quote:
Federal Rules of Evidence
http://www.michaelariens.com/evidenc...htm#Rule%20301

ARTICLE III. PRESUMPTIONS IN CIVIL ACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS
Rule 301. Presumptions in General in Civil Actions and Proceedings
In all civil actions and proceedings not otherwise provided for by Act of Congress or by these rules, a presumption imposes on the party against whom it is directed the burden of going forward with evidence to rebut or meet the presumption
...
Rule 406. Habit; Routine
Evidence of the habit of a person or of the routine practice of an organization whether corroborated or not and regardless of the presence of eyewitnesses, is relevant to prove that the conduct of the person or organization on a particular occasion was in conformity with the habit or routine practice.
~Cath
post #36 of 37
12/10/08 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF View Post
It will be on the customer as she is the one who is responsible for payment getting there in time.
That was my initial thought - but then wouldn't the same apply to the other part of the legislation which says that the bank has to send a statement of fees due 14 days before any due date? In which case any late payment could be contested simply by saying that the statement was received late... (subject to complaining with the 30 day required period).
post #37 of 37
12/10/08 at 1:33pm
Quote:
then wouldn't the same apply to the other part of the legislation which says that the bank has to send a statement of fees due 14 days before any due date?
When you sign up for one you KNOW what your interest rate is & that you'll be charged fees if you do not pay off the balance by the due date. The due date is usually 2-3 weeks AFTER the statement is sent to you.

The card was a promotional card. She KNEW when she signed up for it when the fees would be added so I do not believe that part of legislation would apply.
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