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Thoughts on Gift Giving - Page 5

post #81 of 107
Thread Starter 
goodness! you really do read my blog!
and yeah, sounds like my DD to a tee.

recently she was playing with her barbies and I over heard this conversation between the 2 dolls:
barbie 1 to barbie 2, "now, your water broke, and that's fine. the important thing is just to relax, and breathe. as long as you relax then your vagina will open up and stretch and the baby will come out easily. but if you get stressed and start to freak out, then your body gets stressed and then your muscles tense and that makes it hurt a lot and then you might not get the baby out and then the doctors try to cut your vagina to get the baby out and it's terrible, or worse, they cut your belly! but I won't let that happen, all you have to do is relax, okay, and trust. your body can do this!"

barbie 2 starts moaning a bit and grunting, then easily births her "baby" - a piece of rose quartz from DD's crystal collection.


post #82 of 107
Which reminds of how GI Joe was always knocking up my Flower doll.

She's the hippie in the middle -- who actually wore a pink felt floppy hat. (Not that dumb straw one). (PS do not google-image World of Love Dolls with kids in the room. )

http://www.barbigirl.com/LOVE.JPG

My Sunshine Family dolls were all about the homebirth. They even came with their own spinning wheel and hippie camper:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...n%26safe%3Doff
post #83 of 107
Quote:
Hopefully, they do not want to express themselves in such a sexual manner.
I don't intend to judge my child's "sexual expression".


Pat
post #84 of 107
majikfaerie, I love your article "Letting Children Find Their Own Strength" about TRUST, on your blog: http://www.eolife.org/article.php?ai...fe05737080d509


Pat
post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I don't intend to judge my child's "sexual expression".


Pat
No? Suppose they decide when they are, say, 12 to have a webcam set up in their bedrooms so that they can "sexually express" themselves on the internet? You have no opinion about that? or if they decide that they would like to have sex unprotected. No problem?
post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by majikfaerie View Post
What do you think about giving presents?
Do you try to give your kids what you think they will really want, even if it's something you don't really want to get, or do you get them what you want them to have (of course, said item would be something you know they will like, just not the thing they're lusting after in the toy store)?

I want to get DD a present for christmas (she's never gotten one before), I saw something that I'd really like her to have, and I know she'll love it, and it's practical to boot. But I know there's something else she really really really wants.

can you give her both?
post #87 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
No? Suppose they decide when they are, say, 12 to have a webcam set up in their bedrooms so that they can "sexually express" themselves on the internet? You have no opinion about that? or if they decide that they would like to have sex unprotected. No problem?
yes, and what if they want to have sex with 90 year old men in the middle of the street. LOL

Pat
post #88 of 107
Phew what a long thread....

I just wanted to chime in after reading majikfaerie's blog that she is very obviously living in a different culture (than here in the US) and people's attitudes (from what I saw on the blog) are much different and appear more healthy than in America.

That said I don't think OP has anything to worry about with bratz.

majikfaerie you and your DD are so beautiful, and after seeing your friends on your blog and all the wonderful natural beauty, I think whatever you're doing over there where you are is wonderful and healthy.

I only wish American women would be so bold.
post #89 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
No? Suppose they decide when they are, say, 12 to have a webcam set up in their bedrooms so that they can "sexually express" themselves on the internet? You have no opinion about that? or if they decide that they would like to have sex unprotected. No problem?
That's a bit of a jump from playing with a Bratz doll.
post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
That's a bit of a jump from playing with a Bratz doll.
It is not just about the bratz doll, it is about not judging your childs "sexual expression" which can mean so many things. Anyhow, whatever. I read her blog too, and yes she sounds like a wonderful mother and her daughter is absolutely beautiful and free spirited. I still think that bratz dolls are dressed like little skanks, and I think that general style is tartish. It is up to each individual whether or not they feel it is an appropriate image to project onto children. I happen to think that it is not. I also think that drinking alcohol around children is inappropriate, however I know that lots of people do it and it doesn't make them bad parents. It is completely a matter of opinion.
post #91 of 107
I know you said you've been researching it, but I just did a paper on this a couple of semesters ago (I wish I could link my articles but they are academic papers and you have to be registered through a university that has bought the rights to them to view it)

There is some psychology research out there suggesting that Bratz contribute to "age compression" (as academics call it) and "Kids Growing Older Younger" (as advertisers call it). Basically it is the sexualization of children and introducing children to adult views of sex pre-puberty, which leads young people to act in a sexual manner before they are ready to emotionally/physically and mentally deal with these things.

I would never purchase a Bratz doll because they are very materialistic and they promote girls as being valued for their looks alone. Now majikfaerie's daughter is obviously being raised in a manner that strengthens her resolve against the media's influence. Unfortunatley many, many girls are not which leads them to buy into the values expressed by the dolls. My dollars are my vote. I vote no for these dolls.

But since Majikfaerie bought them on ebay, she didn't give a cent to the manufacturer... and also they will probably be wiped out by Barbie anyway... I just wanted to point out there is research about these dolls that is more negative than just "they are ugly and wear too much makeup", it's just not available to the general public (although it should be).
post #92 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
Which reminds of how GI Joe was always knocking up my Flower doll.

She's the hippie in the middle -- who actually wore a pink felt floppy hat. (Not that dumb straw one). (PS do not google-image World of Love Dolls with kids in the room. )

http://www.barbigirl.com/LOVE.JPG

My Sunshine Family dolls were all about the homebirth. They even came with their own spinning wheel and hippie camper:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...n%26safe%3Doff
I lovethose! awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
majikfaerie, I love your article "Letting Children Find Their Own Strength" about TRUST, on your blog: http://www.eolife.org/article.php?ai...fe05737080d509


Pat
thankyou

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
No? Suppose they decide when they are, say, 12 to have a webcam set up in their bedrooms so that they can "sexually express" themselves on the internet? You have no opinion about that? or if they decide that they would like to have sex unprotected. No problem?
See, you're coming from a totally different reality.
it's like saying "what if your child ends up taking herion at age 12 because she saw you having a few glasses of wine at dinner?"
It just wouldn't happen. There are soooo many more factors involved. No child is going to express themselves sexually on a webcam at age 12, simply because they were allowed to play with Bratz.
Said child would have to have a whole lot more going on that would lead to such a behaviour. and honestly; I would like to believe that parents on MDC would be raising their children in a loving, respectful and gentle manner, such that the mere playing with a doll couldn't break their self-esteem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post
Phew what a long thread....

I just wanted to chime in after reading majikfaerie's blog that she is very obviously living in a different culture (than here in the US) and people's attitudes (from what I saw on the blog) are much different and appear more healthy than in America.

That said I don't think OP has anything to worry about with bratz.

majikfaerie you and your DD are so beautiful, and after seeing your friends on your blog and all the wonderful natural beauty, I think whatever you're doing over there where you are is wonderful and healthy.

I only wish American women would be so bold.
goodness. thankyou too
I do live in a pretty different place than a lot of western people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
I know you said you've been researching it, but I just did a paper on this a couple of semesters ago (I wish I could link my articles but they are academic papers and you have to be registered through a university that has bought the rights to them to view it)

There is some psychology research out there suggesting that Bratz contribute to "age compression" (as academics call it) and "Kids Growing Older Younger" (as advertisers call it). Basically it is the sexualization of children and introducing children to adult views of sex pre-puberty, which leads young people to act in a sexual manner before they are ready to emotionally/physically and mentally deal with these things.

I would never purchase a Bratz doll because they are very materialistic and they promote girls as being valued for their looks alone. Now majikfaerie's daughter is obviously being raised in a manner that strengthens her resolve against the media's influence. Unfortunatley many, many girls are not which leads them to buy into the values expressed by the dolls. My dollars are my vote. I vote no for these dolls.

But since Majikfaerie bought them on ebay, she didn't give a cent to the manufacturer... and also they will probably be wiped out by Barbie anyway... I just wanted to point out there is research about these dolls that is more negative than just "they are ugly and wear too much makeup", it's just not available to the general public (although it should be).
about this reserach, thankyou for sharing that. it's very interesting. and as I said before, I don't believe for one second that these dolls alone could 'sexualise' a child. it would be impossible to conduct such a study, because you can't find children in a vacuum

But these studies are done mostly on children who are raised in western countries, by parents who are relying on a largely damaged society to provide their self-image.

When a girl's mother is herself unconfident in herself, and has a low self-image, which can manifest itself in many ways, it is not surprising that the girl would learn this kind of behaviour, and latch onto dolls like Bratz to model themselves on, thus becoming self-degrading behaviour, as the image of Bratz is virtually impossible to maintain on a real person.


anyway, end of the day, it's pretty irrelevant to my child, living in the environment we live in.

and the end of the day is that my question was about buying presents for children, and where/ how people draw lines on that.
This most interesting discussion has helped me to see where I'm really at, and come to a clear conclusion.
thankyou
post #93 of 107
Yes, I realize that a Bratz doll cannot alone corrupt a child. I did not say any such thing. Can it contribute to the sexualization of a child? Perhaps. I understand what you are saying about a 12 year old taking heroin cannot be due to parents having a few drinks, and I agree. What I do not agree with is those who would say that they do not intend to "judge" their children's choices. My point was, would you not have any opinions about your child's "choices" even if they were ones such as drugs or other things that are harmful to them?
post #94 of 107
Thread Starter 
can you not see the difference between opinion and judgement?
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
What I do not agree with is those who would say that they do not intend to "judge" their children's choices. My point was, would you not have any opinions about your child's "choices" even if they were ones such as drugs or other things that are harmful to them?
I prefer to deal with reality. Not "what ifs". Your reality may be different than ours. I can't see a Bratz doll being "harmful" to a child. I'm sure I was "sexualized" well before "appropriate" (whatever that means). However, I still "Found My Own Strength", and have been happily married for 26 years. I TRUST children to make their own choices for their own body and their own life, just as I trust you to make choices for yours.





Pat
post #96 of 107
I understand that these are whatifs. I know the difference between opinions and judgement. I was replying to the comment that someone made that they would not judge their child's sexual expression. I just posed the question of whether or not that includes when the expression is something that is harmful. That alone is what I was talking about.
post #97 of 107
I thought "sexual expression" meant like what they wear and whether they wear makeup and how they wear their hair. Not putting up sexually explicit (and at the age mentioned, illegal) material up on the internet.
post #98 of 107
I would think that sexual expression would cover all sorts of things that go far beyond image.
post #99 of 107
Thread Starter 
If anyone is interested for an update; it's christmas morning here, and DD woke up to find a present under the tree. here's photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majikfa...7610606581883/
(it's the whole of december in that album, so you have to scroll to the bottom)
post #100 of 107
Thread Starter 
(she's busy right now drawing tattoos on them and they already have haircuts)
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