LLL not entirly supportive atmosphere

[Pat899]

Here the situation. I am at a LLL meeting and a working mom is having trouble pumping enough milk to feed her babe in daycare. He is 8 wks and eats 18 oz over a twelve hour period. She goes on to say several times that it is impossible to pump that much every day.

The leaders offer great suggestions on getting babe to eat more at night and eat less at daycare. But they never adress her statement about the impossibility of pumping 18 oz. While pumping this much may be difficult. I know personally it is not impossible.

What is the protocal at one of these meetings for dispelling such inaccuriacies? I am fairly new to LLL but not to nursing. Is it even acceptable to say anything at all. Or is it better to give support to the mom than to correct her inaccuricies adressed to the group?

[philomom]

That bites. For what it's worth... I was in school and was having issues similar to the working mom you describe. My LLL leaders at the time were all about me quitting school and going home to nurse. Never once did they try to help me with my pumping problems or trying to increase my milk production.... just that the baby needed my milk more than I needed my college degree. It was heartbreaking at the time. I muddled through without their help.

I do hope you can reach out to this woman and that she doesn't quit nursing all together.

[azmomtoone]

that's sad....

Could you contact her yourself someway and try to offer advice, give her some recipes,etc for increasing supply (lactation cookies anyone?); I can't imagine pumping 18oz a day, I had a hard time getting more than a couple oz at a time..... but there has to be better solutions for getting more than just get him to eat at night....most kids do seem to adapt like that but it's not the best solution for a working mom to be up all hours of the night either, plus the kid's so young....he needs to eat when he needs to eat. Maybe trying to pump before he eats when he nurses at home? He'll still get milk after pumping, but the pump won't get much after the kid eats....

If she really can't get enough for her little one, maybe you could see if she'd be open to donated milk; if a few of the the LLL moms were willing to help out could pump some for her, even just a couple oz a day from each of them..... it'd be better than adding formula right??

[leewd]

I have also noticed similar attitudes in LLL meetings.

It also permeates their literature. It's all about working less hours, working from home, finding a way to quit. Just help me pump, darn it!

It's sad. I spoke to one lady whose mother was an LLL leader back in the early 70's. Her mom was appalled at how LLL has changed.

[ccohenou]

She probably means that it is impossible for her, which may well be true.
Personally, I wouldn't think in terms of correcting her. Although I might mention that some people have an easier time pumping than others. And would offer suggestions for pumping more milk (this information is available from LLL http://www.llli.org/FAQ/pumpwork.html).

[Arwyn]

I would have spoken up with the meeting with my experience (if I'd had experience pumping that much), but would remember that just because I had been able to doesn't mean that anyone else necessarily could.

I do wish LLL in general gave more support for pumping. Perhaps it's not "ideal", but often it's a really good thing, and the best overall.

[tanyalynn]

Could part of the problem just be lack of experience pumping? Some women have never pumped and don't have first-hand knowledge of what to do to either pump more while away or increase their supply overall. When I don't have first-hand experience, it's harder to offer help. It's not as convincing when I say "I read that...." yk? If you share your knowledge, it seems like it would help the whole group.

[lilylove]

Absolutely offer your experience and tips on increasing expressed milk. LLL is all about mother to mother support. That doesn't mean just Leader to mother

[lindberg99]

I was an LLL Leader for a while and it wouldn't have bothered me to have someone else speak up. I ran the meetings as a discussion rather than just me. I'm sure it varies from group to group though.

If you don't feel comfortable enough to talk during the meeting, you can always go up to someone after the meeting. You could also talk to the Leader after and give her your feelings on how to increase milk supply while pumping. She might not have any experience with it and needs to hear about it from people who have BTDT.

Even if you had offered your suggestions, it might still be impossible for that mom to pump 18 oz in a day. She might not have a decent place at work to pump or feels stressed (like she feels rushed, afraid someone might walk in, afraid someone might complain, etc) and it's affecting her let down and pumping ability. The leaders might not have said much because they don't want to make her feel like she's not doing enough or whatever.

[purplepaperclip]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Could part of the problem just be lack of experience pumping? Some women have never pumped and don't have first-hand knowledge of what to do to either pump more while away or increase their supply overall. When I don't have first-hand experience, it's harder to offer help. It's not as convincing when I say "I read that...." yk? If you share your knowledge, it seems like it would help the whole group.

ITA. I am a member of my local LLL group which holds both day and evening meetings and from my experience everyone gives advice when it is something they are familiar with or have first hand experience. In my case, I am a varsity club WOHM pumper. LOL I would suggest she start adding other pumping sessions in at home - a couple hours after baby goes to bed, before baby gets up in AM, etc. Fortunately my group is very supportive of WOH moms and I've never had any issues with that at all... I them!

[hparsh]

Not everyone can pump 18 oz. a day. In fact, most women I know can't pump that much during a working day. I struggled with getting 12 oz., and that was about my max.

I don't think that LLL should have told her it was impossible, but I do agree with their tips on getting the baby to nurse more at night. They should have also suggested different herbs, oatmeal, and adding a pumping session at night and weekends to increase supply.

I really think that LLL meetings need to be more supportive of working/student moms. The one meeting I went to just assumed that we were all SAHM's, and not once did they address pumping issues.

[Pat899]

Thankyou for the replies. The meetings often don't have that open for discussion feeling. When I see her again I was going to try to suggest to add in pumping sessions at night. She said her little one slept through the night so it seems like a great time to add a pumping session. She is already supplemting with formula.

[isabchi]

Originally Posted by hparsh

Not everyone can pump 18 oz. a day. In fact, most women I know can't pump that much during a working day. I struggled with getting 12 oz., and that was about my max.

I don't think that LLL should have told her it was impossible, but I do agree with their tips on getting the baby to nurse more at night. They should have also suggested different herbs, oatmeal, and adding a pumping session at night and weekends to increase supply.

I really think that LLL meetings need to be more supportive of working/student moms. The one meeting I went to just assumed that we were all SAHM's, and not once did they address pumping issues.

Sometimes is not the topic of the day/meeting. In our group is usually a nighttime meeting per semester mostly about pumping. LLL are mothers-to-mothers support group. Maybe, that Leader don't have first hand experience to pumping.That happened with one of our leader, that's not mean that LLL is not support it.

[Bellabaz]

In my group my leader has no experience with pumping, but knows that I exclusively pumped for a year. So she defers most pumping questions to me. Its ashame that they weren't more supportive. I know taht when I first started going DD was 5.5 months and i had be eping all that time excpet for the first week or so and they definitely mad eit clear they would help me get her to the breast if I wanted to try. THey also said I was doing a great job and doing my best to give her the best. My friend had a terrible leader out in CA who made her cry when she asked about having half a glass of wine to help her relax. Called her a bad mom or something too.

I think it would be totally acceptable for you to apporach the mother after the formal discussion ro to contact her outside of the group and offer her advice from your experience. I had supply issues for a brief time and it was really hard. I cried when I had to give dd formaula a handful of times. But no one else I knew had ever pumped much so I did what I had to do.

Good luck.

[chfriend]

It was trouble pumping enough that brought me to MDC!

I found LLL to be unsupportive of woh with a little one, so it just wasn't for me.

And I'm a happy CLW'er.

[meganmarie]

The LLL meetings I went to were very discussion based - anyone in the group with experience would offer suggestions and advice to any mother's questions. Its too bad yours are not that open.

I was very grateful for the excellent advice I got on pumping from my LLL. They definitely gave me thoughts on how to increase supply/pump more (not just how to reverse-cycle)... Some I recall were taking fenugreek (worked incredibly well for me), pumping 1st thing in the morning when supply was greatest, and increasing the number of pumping sessions in my workday (three shorter rather than two longer ones). One other thing they suggested was trying to get ahead of it - for me, having a freezer stash was critically important for those days when I couldn't or didn't pump the full amount. So on weekends I would often pump a couple times after nursing and store that milk to "supplement" the daily supply. Our LLL also had a lending library so they suggested I borrow and read "Nursing Mother, Working Mother" by Gale Pryor which was very practical and inspiring and helpful for me.

If my LLL leader didn't have the ability to share those thoughts with me I would have been grateful for another mom to give me some ideas or something good to read.

Oh and I credit LLL completely for how I was with their help able to pump for over a year with both kids while working full time out of the home...and breastfeed them each for another year after I stopped pumping.

[thepeach80]

I think it's definitely all about the group. There are 2 night meetings in my area, that's how I got connected w/ the group I've attended for almost 6 yrs now. I was working full time so obviously needed a night meeting. Our meetings tends to be more working moms (and twin moms) so a lot of our group has a lot of info on pumping etc. I know the 'tricks' just from reading, but I have no real experience in pumping so I'm far from the authority. I do know lots of things to do to increase supply and that might have helped her as well. We are a very discussion oriented group, we all share things that might be helpful to whatever question is asked.

[rachelsmama]

Mom was a LLL leader and she told me that she was a little envious of the non-leaders because they had so much more freedom in what they said. She said that since leaders represent the organisation they have to be careful what they say. So they are discouraged from saying things that could reflect badly on LLL (like swearing profusely about the local hospital protocols, or calling a doctor a UAV), or from making absolute statements like "you should definitely do xxx", or from saying things that go against the official LLL view of things. So she was often happy when one of the non-leaders at a meeting would contribute their thought about something.

[CEG]

This is probably going to be an unpopular sentiment : but as someone who has had a lot of nursing challenges, LLL has not been very helpful.

I think LLL is great for "normal" nursing problems... sore nipples, fussy baby, biting, etc. For someone like me with deeper issues I didn't get a lot of help because people hadn't dealt with true low supply. IMO the requirement to have nursed for one year to be a LLLL kind of selects out many women who had serious nursing problems, had to return to work and pump, etc because they are less likely to make it for a year. Although LLL are generally very knowledgable people, they have less experience with that sort of thing. So I think that's important to remember and that there is also a place for group members to speak up because they may have experienced some things that the LLLL hasn't.

That said I am a member of LLL and I think it is a wonderful thing because for most women the only thing they need to BF succesfully is a little support.

[leerypolyp]

I agree with the posters who said that the leaders may not have had firsthad experience with pumping. That is often the case, and yet it feels like most of the questions are about pumping! The basic LLL literature isn't especially helpful with that.

Also it's true that it may be really difficult to increase your output with the pump -- sometimes you may actually have better luck increasing your output with your baby. It's a tough line to walk as a leader, because you sure don't want to be discouraging, but you also don't want to set up the expectation that everybody can pump 40 oz. a day.

Finally: LLL's rules allow you to have nursed less than a year if you had a reason (like true low supply) -- so officially it shouldn't be an obstacle. That said, it can be really hard to become a leader if you WOHM. It's a bind.

IMO the best meetings are where the leader barely talks, and the moms run the whole thing! So speak up!