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Protecting the Gift - Page 3

post #41 of 74
I can't wait until the thread is started tomorrow to discuss the first chapter.

I checked it out from the library (had read it a few years ago) and I guess my perspective has changed considerably since then.

So, I'm looking forward to the thread starting so I can get others' thoughts on some things.

Should be a good discussion!
post #42 of 74
Thread Starter 
I'm going to get it going with some starter discussion questions in the morning.
post #43 of 74
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post #44 of 74
Cool, thanks for starting this, Phatui! I hope I packed it, we're at my IL's for the weekend! It was cool, I had it wishlisted and got it on PaperBackSwap like three days after I saw this thread!
post #45 of 74

Large print edition?

I tried searching Amazon but I can't seem to find a large print edition. Does anyone know if they have a large print version?

Thanks,
~Cath
post #46 of 74
Thread Starter 
post #47 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironica View Post
My experience is, you don't have to explain these. My four-year-old was watching Caillou, and they modeled the "look for a police officer if you're lost" thing. So I asked him, if he was lost, who would he look for? And, without ANY prompting, he said he'd look for a mommy. And kids, unless they're extremely shy, will usually ask for help if they haven't been taught not to.
That's been my experience as well. We tell Bleuet "Look for a mommy" and as far as he's concerned, that is the gold standard of what you do if lost.
post #48 of 74
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post #49 of 74
My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleu View Post
That's been my experience as well. We tell Bleuet "Look for a mommy" and as far as he's concerned, that is the gold standard of what you do if lost.
post #50 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though.
FWIW, that is not a conclusion de Becker shares. I'm not trying to talk you out of your opinion, just since it is a GoF thread, Gaven de Becker talks quite a bit about how if you're concerned about safety, your random stranger woman with kids in tow is a lot likelier to be a safe bet than your random similarly situated man. Obviously form your own conclusion, but I didn't want to let you take the author's advice and change it beyond his intended meaning without knowing it. Now you know and can do what seems right to you.
post #51 of 74
It wasn't exactly a thought out conclusion or firm opinion, I was mostly just thinking out loud. I think any woman is safer than any man (statistically speaking), with or without kids, and I don't disagree with him. I personally would probably think that any man with kids is better than a man without. When I reread it I'll see what he says about dads. But this whole issue was my whole problem. My son just wanted to know WHY a mommy, and why not a man, why not a daddy. He's so close with his dad that it was a natural question for him. I posted not to say "any parent is OK" but b/c I didn't know how to answer that.
post #52 of 74
Oh, I see what you mean. I don't know what I'm going to say about that, either, when it eventually, inevitably comes up. I hate to put that sort of thing in our sons' heads, because it does seem a damning thing to say about their gender, and I don't want it to change how they feel about themselves...

I also worry about how the world will see them. I mean, I'm confident that your ds & my ds will be nurturing, safe boys, young men and adults for children to be around.... but of course, to the rest of the world, they will just be strangers. I have an acquaintance whose son was accused of inappropriate behavior and it was a nightmare. The dad was rock-solid in his belief in his son's version of events, but it was pretty terrifying before the boy was cleared.

Anyway, hopefully someone else will have some BTDT explanation to offer!
post #53 of 74
Quote:
My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!
One of the reasons to look for a mom is b/c mom's stay with the kid until the the kid has been found by his own parent.
Men typically leave the kid with the authorities be it security guards or whatever...mom's finish the job.

I told my Dd to look for a mom b/c the mom's know how to find other other moms.
post #54 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!
Hazelnut,
At the risk of overanalyzing this here's my "take" on it. Your kid is unlikely to know for sure whether the woman or man in question is a Mom or a Dad. The presence of other kids would only seem to offer some assurance of safety --independent of the parent/child relationship-- if those kids are verbal. Not just verbal, but articulate enough for another concerned adult to get a sense that this man picked another kid up along the way, molested them and/or stashed them somewhere.

It's not hard to imagine a scenario where a family friend has been entrusted with someone else's kid(s). They may look like a Dad but they aren't and while they may or may not take advantage of the kid(s) in their care you don't want your child effectively relying upon the judgment of anyone that misplaced their trust.

When your own child is a little older you might be able to try and explain that in the absence of someone that is probably a Mom that they may be better off with someone with older kids that are calling them "Dad" than they would be with a solo female, unless she is giving off a really strong "Mommy vibe". Otherwise you probably want to err on the side of keeping it simple.

As DeBecker puts it, the statistics speak for themselves. We ignore that at our children's peril. Obviously, that doesn't make men inherently more evil than women. But for reasons probably beyond the scope of this book thread, that evil can express itself differently.

Thanks for the thought provoking question. It makes me wonder if I should make a game of having my DDs pick the Mommy out of the crowd.

~Cath
post #55 of 74
Heh. I have definitely crossed over to the "looks like a mommy" category, even if my ds isn't in my immediate presence. Small children mistake my legs for their mom's, bigger ones ask me for tissues, I get asked to help find somebody's mommy or to reach high-up things. It's all very sweet, except I don't want the tissues back when they're done using them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
One of the reasons to look for a mom is b/c mom's stay with the kid until the the kid has been found by his own parent.
Men typically leave the kid with the authorities be it security guards or whatever...mom's finish the job.
I didn't get that at first - I was thinking it was one of those typical "men say they can't find the ketchup so you have to go get it" things, but then I realized no, a lot of men would be afraid to help a lost kid because they'd be afraid that they themselves would be mistaken for the predator, where that wouldn't even occur to most women. And for men, I can see how that is a legitimate concern. It's f'ed up, but the public perception is real (that women are safe, men are potential predators) and we all have to deal with it.
post #56 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
a lot of men would be afraid to help a lost kid because they'd be afraid that they themselves would be mistaken for the predator
The feeling I got from DeBecker is that men honestly aren't as emotionally involved in the process. Once they've handed a kid off to security or a store employee, they've done their part.
post #57 of 74
I have nothing to add to the discussion just yet but I got my copy today (finally!). Excited to start reading it tonight once the kids are asleep.

TBH, just glancing thru the book kinda has me freaked out! I tend to be really trusting of people and hope reading this doesn't scare me away from letting my kids do things in life.
post #58 of 74
it's great to be trusting of people are are trust*worthy*- the trick is to screen out those who are not worthy of trust without going nuts. the book is good at pointing out strategies for being practical about who to trust- and the bottom line is, trust *yourself* and your own inner voice. always.
post #59 of 74
nak

does anyone dislike the book, or books like it?

from what i've read, it seems like it's the same-old thing:

a) trust your intuition

b) women, especially with children, are sensitive and are to be trusted

c) men are at best disinterested and kind of dangerous, and at worse perverted

i have always found "dramatised" descriptions of seemingly true crime, or attempted crime to be revolting, because it is meant to entertain and alarm, and the opening pages are just that. it's exactly what oprah does when dealing with these issues.... and this has all of the markers of an oprah-style best seller. prime-time tv is full of this stuff too.

imo, there are better ways to protect our children from harm than to read volume after volume of that-man-at-the-park-should-be-feared-and-questioned quasi-fiction.

the most obvious points of the book seem to be:

a) use common sense, and

b) trust that voice in your head.

we have known that since swinging down from the trees, this just restates this in twelve ways and makes millions while doing so.

...

maybe that old man watching children in park just lost his wife of 50 years and is trying to cheer his heart by watching children play? *that* is much more likely than something horrid.... but what's the first thing that many think? it's because of paranoia pedalling like this that they do.

i have had some gorgeous afternoons in the park with my friend and our daughters ruined because she has mused aloud about people there (or who could be watching from houses?!?) in this light.

sorry to rant, and i'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but these kinds of books make me angry and depressed because they instil fear in people (mostly mothers) and ruin a true sense of community.

trin
post #60 of 74
Trinnity, I have problems with the book, too, for many of the reasons you state. I also found the whole "list of questions" sections for sitters, teachers, etc. to be a bit formidable. I can't imagine having the courage to ask all those questions.

Oldermom, sighing, as her 5 y.o. dd is approaching these scary years
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