Originally Posted by 1littlebit
i think semper makes some great points.
this is *my* perspective... in the interest of full disclosure im not christian anymore.
the bible was written and then repeatedly translated many times by many different people in many different time periods and cultures. humans are fallible. they have their own biases based on the culture and time and their personal experiences. they also have their own agendas. these were written and translated in the context of the culture of the writers and translators.
God is our creator. he made each man in his image. Jesus, his son, he lead a life of kindness, generosity, care of the poor, the sick, the young etc. he did not (according to Christianity) get married or have children. he lead what was for that time quite the alternative lifestyle.
Jesus set an example of how to live. he loved and cared for those around him. he shared what he could, he forgave those who wronged him. he reached out to people that no one cared about. he valued all people regardless of their situation in life. to me these are the most important things to take from the bible.
IMO- God is far more able then we are to see the big picture.. it is his picture after all. I think who someone has sex with are human prejudices and concerns not godly ones. I think God created life and we should love and care for life in all of its many variations. i think treating all life with respect and dignity is important.. after all.. God created life. I don't think God makes mistakes. I do not think God would create homosexuals just so they can live their lives hiding and suppressing who they are.. never having the love that heterosexuals have. It is a fact of biology that humans crave touch, physical closeness, etc. God created us that way... why would he create a whole group of people and then deprive them of that very primal need? those are human prejudices, human ideas, and human judgements. God does not look at this world and see love between two people of the same sex as a problem. Love is good no matter what.
so basically i think any concerns outside of love, kindness, generosity, respect, etc. are more human then Godly. murder, lying, stealing, gluttony, selfishness, greed, adultery etc. can all be taken back to those things. they are not loving, kind, generous, respectful etc.
I appreciated what you had to say. and b/c you're aren't Christian it doesn't apply fully to the OP question. but it was still good thoughts
That said, I think that as a Christian that believes in God as full Authority and humans as servants to Him... the argument that God is loving and wouldn't have made homosexuals if it was wrong to act homosexually doesn't hold a lot of weight. Not the homosexuality is in any way similar to what I am about to say other than to make a point of sinners being sinful) God also made murders, peopel given to the urge to masturbate, people with violent tempers, people who desire to hurt others, people who sre given to over eating, people who are addicted to sugar or tv or drugs, people are inclined to steal. etc etc etc. did he mean for those people to act on their feelings?
my point ISN'T that homosexuality and murdering is the same. (it isn't! that is clear) but it is in the sense that if God said not to act on it, and we do, it is a sin. NOT b/c we think it should be a sin. and NOT b/c we know nice people who we love who have this sin in their lives. but because God said it is sin. how we feel has nothing to do with it.now I realize there are people that have reasons to believe God doesn't say this is a sin. that is a whole other issue that I'm not hitting on (though I'm not throwing our either)
but my point is we can't decide AS CHRISTIANS who follow god as our authority, what laws we wish to keep and those we wish the change based on how we feel. Yes, god is love. but He is righteousness. Righteousness in which we are not. so He gets to call the shots. do we have to obey? nope. but if we claim in His name that we are obedient, we mjst obey even that which we don't understand or we are not truly obedient servants.
now as a person who isn't a Christian, I realize this wont hold a lot of weight with you. but since you ono-christian answer was given to christians, I'm throwing outwhat is erroneous in it from a Christian standpoint (even if it's ok by your own standpoint, respectively). I'm not aiming to condemn you, personally!
all in all any feelings I have about homosexuality are based in what I feell God has to say about it. (taking into account all things such as human error in writing etc etc) and coming to the conclusion I feel it is sin. I don't feel this way b/c dislike gay people. not b/c I think they have cooties. not b/c I'm repulsed by them. nothing like that. I known many people that are gay and nice and I would call them good human beings! but... again... that isn't the point. however, if they aren't followers of the Christian God, then it is not my duty to impress upon them how I feel they should live. God leaves that up to each of us. and I respect that.OP-
I'm not trying to get into what is sinful about homosexuality - I realize that is NOT what you asked for. I was trying to touch on how it is dangerous to assume that b/c God made us that we are free to act in any way we want. please don't misinterpret my post for trying to flame gays or prove what is wrong about gays. I've yet to hear a good reason/argument on why homosexuality would be not be a sin... but i've heard some based on feelings alone. and since you asked for biblical references or whatever, and I too am curious about this... I'm was just trying to make that point. please don't think I'm trying to highjack your thread!!