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Car Seats- I guess I missed something?! - Page 5

post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
It's way more complicated than this and there are almost unlimited factors involved which is why no one can say with certainly that boosters or harnessing is safer for a toddler. There is no testing of harnessing vs. booster because it's too subjective, too expensive, and also meaningless. Both are approved and safe. One might be a little better, it's up to you what you want to believe.

I have watched lots of crash footage and regularly speak to people at a crash test facility and other people who have been doing car seat research for 30+ years.

If your seatbelt fails, which is unusual but does happen, there will be a disaster regardless of seat.

If you are in a belt positioning booster and your seatbelt fails, there's nothing left to hold you in and you become a projectile. If you are in a harnessed seat that is belted and tethered, unless the tether, belt and harness all fail, you will at least remain in the seat. A tether is not meant to restrain a seat, but it can prevent it from becoming a projectile. THe odds are in your favour that you will at least not be ejected as easily in a harnessed seat even if the belt fails.
post #82 of 121
Agreed. But we're now talking about statistical risks which are pretty much insignificant IMHO. Yes, seatbelt can fail when you have a crash. Worrying about such low probability event is not logical and good risk/reward thinking IMHO.

Have a nice weekend
post #83 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Worrying about such low probability event is not logical and good risk/reward thinking IMHO.
Indeed.
post #84 of 121
This risk of being in a serious accident is also quite low, but yet we take extreme measures to protect ourselves and our children from potential injury resulting from such an event. Seat belts can and do fail. Between 2000 and 2006 there were 180 recalls of seat belts and seat belt components. That's still rare, but it's not that rare.

You have a nice weekend too .
post #85 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
This risk of being in a serious accident is also quite low, but yet we take extreme measures to protect ourselves and our children from potential injury resulting from such an event. Seat belts can and do fail. Between 2000 and 2006 there were 180 recalls of seat belts and seat belt components. That's still rare, but it's not that rare.
There are alot more car crashes, also serious, than seat belt failures.
I think it's just silly to compare those at all.
post #86 of 121
When we think of "seatbelt failure" what is actually happening is that the child is too young, squirmy, immature etc for the seatbelt and unbuckles it, or a sibling does so.
post #87 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
When we think of "seatbelt failure" what is actually happening is that the child is too young, squirmy, immature etc for the seatbelt and unbuckles it, or a sibling does so.
That's not what I was referring to at all. That's still a valid point, but not what I was specifically referring to .
post #88 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
There are alot more car crashes, also serious, than seat belt failures.
I think it's just silly to compare those at all.

Okay, lets use something else as a basis for comparison.

Plane crashes happen about as often as seat belt failures. We still take precautions to avoid injury and death in the event of a crash even though survival is improbable.

I don't think that mechanical seat belt failures are so rare that we shouldn't take precautions to protect our children from the rare possibility.
post #89 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
Plane crashes happen about as often as seat belt failures. We still take precautions to avoid injury and death in the event of a crash even though survival is improbable.
I would like to see some numbers that support this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
I don't think that mechanical seat belt failures are so rare that we shouldn't take precautions to protect our children from the rare possibility.
We can't.
Simple as that.
And I dunno about US, but here, they are so rare that it's silly to take it into consideration.
post #90 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
That's not what I was referring to at all. That's still a valid point, but not what I was specifically referring to .
I know There definitely is such a thing as seatbelt failure (as evidenced by the recalls you mentioned before). I wasn't trying to argue with you
post #91 of 121
We don't take precautions in plane crashes, unless leaning forward and praying is a precaution I take precautions with my kids but of a different kind. My son, almost 5, has been taught to always tell me if his belt is not fastened. It has happened that I forgot about it. I'm embarrassed and ashamed about it but I have forgotten couple of times. He also doesn't take off his seatbelt unless we're already in the garage or after asking me.

My 2-year old daughter sits rear facing in front and also tells me if her seat is not fastened. Even if I just start the car and start driving 10 feet.

I'm hoping that this will limit the chances that seatbelt is unbuckled.

We're talking plane crashes and faulty seat belts here, some of the most improbably events that can happen. I think it's good to talk about it, as all safety related stuff, but it just isn't a factor. Probabilities are simply too low and it's not worth worrying about.
post #92 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
I would like to see some numbers that support this.



We can't.
Simple as that.
And I dunno about US, but here, they are so rare that it's silly to take it into consideration.

I wouldn't know about the US. I don't live there .
post #93 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
I would like to see some numbers that support this.



We can't.
Simple as that.
And I dunno about US, but here, they are so rare that it's silly to take it into consideration.
According to this article, plane crashes/accidents happen less frequently than the seat belt recalls I referenced in another link

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/bu.../01safety.html


Children still ride in carseats (preferably) in planes. Seat belts still exist on planes despite the low rate of yearly accidents.

This boy's parents feel pretty strongly about preventing accidents related to seat belt failures. If I were in their shoes, I would too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ
post #94 of 121
Another interesting article on seat belt failures.

http://www.safetyforum.com/inertial/


It states that Europe does have different seat belt latch safety standards than the US. This is pretty important information.
post #95 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
I wouldn't know about the US. I don't live there .
Sorry, don't know where you live, my impression is that most in here are in the US, so I assumed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
According to this article, plane crashes/accidents happen less frequently than the seat belt recalls I referenced in another link

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/bu.../01safety.html
We all know it's safer to fly, to can you fly to where you are going everyday?
It's still a really silly thing to compare.
(You can minimize the car driving, like we do. We hardly ever drive.)

And there is a thing called "good places to get info" vs. "not so good places to get info".
Youtube is not a good one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
Children still ride in carseats (preferably) in planes. Seat belts still exist on planes despite the low rate of yearly accidents.
However, children should absolutely not be in carseats in a plane.
On the contrary.
And in most planes here, you wont be allowed. There's no way to fasten a carseat properly in the plane. And it would absolutely be on your own risk, bc the stuardess will tell you they take no responsibility if you put the kid in the carseat instead. They have too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
Another interesting article on seat belt failures.

http://www.safetyforum.com/inertial/


It states that Europe does have different seat belt latch safety standards than the US. This is pretty important information.
Not very interesting, bc the victims are lying.

And yeah, numbers for US wouldn't count here.
Here, it's not likely for a seat belt to fail, I've actually never heard of it. (And that would be on the news, so if it was very common, I'd heard.)
post #96 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
However, children should absolutely not be in carseats in a plane.
On the contrary.
And in most planes here, you wont be allowed. There's no way to fasten a carseat properly in the plane. And it would absolutely be on your own risk, bc the stuardess will tell you they take no responsibility if you put the kid in the carseat instead. They have too.
Do you have a link showing this? Why wouldn't it be safe to be in a carseat on a plane? It's safer for an infant for sure.

You install the carseat with the seatbelt- same as a lap belt install in a car.

-Angela
post #97 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Do you have a link showing this? Why wouldn't it be safe to be in a carseat on a plane? It's safer for an infant for sure.

You install the carseat with the seatbelt- same as a lap belt install in a car.

-Angela
There's a reason it's not allowed on most flights.
At least here.
But I don't have a link, I just know ppl that work with it, stuardess, captain etc. And I've experienced it myself on several flights.
I don't recall all the reasons, there where several.
But just as an example, that I thought of now, the buckle is in the wrong place, it has to be on the seat, and not "gliding". You can't fasten most car-seats if the buckle is to long, it has to be totally on the base of the seat. It's hard to explain, but it says in the car-seat manuals.
And seatbelts in planes don't have the same mecanics as a car one, they aren't tested or made for holding carseats.
I have to ask my friend who works with this again to get the reasons from the crew/airplane company/plane makers or whoever decides theese things.
post #98 of 121
The FAA in the US recommends carseats on planes. I don't know what studies they used though, maybe someone else does.
post #99 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
There's a reason it's not allowed on most flights.
At least here.
But I don't have a link, I just know ppl that work with it, stuardess, captain etc. And I've experienced it myself on several flights.
I don't recall all the reasons, there where several.
But just as an example, that I thought of now, the buckle is in the wrong place, it has to be on the seat, and not "gliding". You can't fasten most car-seats if the buckle is to long, it has to be totally on the base of the seat. It's hard to explain, but it says in the car-seat manuals.
And seatbelts in planes don't have the same mecanics as a car one, they aren't tested or made for holding carseats.
I have to ask my friend who works with this again to get the reasons from the crew/airplane company/plane makers or whoever decides theese things.
huh. I wonder if the belts on the airplanes are different? It's easy to install US seats on US planes. Done it a number of times myself. And the carseat manuals support it.

HERE flight attendants strongly STRONGLY suggest keeping babies in carseats on airplanes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
The FAA in the US recommends carseats on planes.
:

-Angela
post #100 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
huh. I wonder if the belts on the airplanes are different? It's easy to install US seats on US planes. Done it a number of times myself. And the carseat manuals support it.

HERE flight attendants strongly STRONGLY suggest keeping babies in carseats on airplanes.
Ditto.
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