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no - vax in a miltiary family??  

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
We're a military family. My husband left when I was 8 mo preggo and will be coming home in a couple months.

I made the decision not to vax yet and to do the full research and by the time he is 2-3 I'll decide whether I want to or not - though I'm leaning towards not. HOWEVER, my MIL (who also does not believe in vax's) pointed out to me today that I should also consider that Steven has been in a foreign country (he's in Iraq)... and that Marshall will be around other children who have been around their parents... Also, the daycare out here will not allow children in if they do not have the required vaxs.

I'm at a loss... Also, with all the moving I no longer know what the law is out here (we're in TX now) as we came from CA.

ANYWAY, I need to be pointed in the right direction and you ladies are the only ones who have really ever given me advice (my mother is of no help). Let me know your thoughts on the deployment thing and if anyone knows the laws military/TX wise I would LOVE to hear them.
post #2 of 22
http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml

You'd have to use religion as your reason apparently, but it covers daycare even.
post #3 of 22
I wouldn't worry about your ds catching something from your dh or other kids. DH is on his 3rd deployment and honestly, the thought never crossed my mind.
post #4 of 22
We're at Ft. Hood and not vaxing. We've gotten mixed reports as to whether Child and Youth Services will accept religious exemptions, but haven't tried to register with them. Beyond that, one pediatrician has encouraged us to consider what he deems the three most critical vaccines and one nurse has given me grief. The only other feedback we've gotten has been along the lines of, "I see that she hasn't had any of her shots. I'm assuming that's a conscience choice?" then moving on to other subjects.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vickjul View Post
We're at Ft. Hood and not vaxing. We've gotten mixed reports as to whether Child and Youth Services will accept religious exemptions, but haven't tried to register with them. Beyond that, one pediatrician has encouraged us to consider what he deems the three most critical vaccines and one nurse has given me grief. The only other feedback we've gotten has been along the lines of, "I see that she hasn't had any of her shots. I'm assuming that's a conscience choice?" then moving on to other subjects.
Oh! We're on Ft. Hood too - I just sent you a PM regarding your PCM and what not - please let me know
post #6 of 22
We're a "soon to be military family" (DH leaves for AF Basic next month) so we've done our research.

I can tell you that TX has religious and philosophical exemptions! : Your DH will have to get updates on some of his shots (I believe) when he comes home for the very reason that he's been out of country for so long. I'm sure you can check with a CO or someone in the medical center. As far as I know the military cannot force you to vaccinate your child as long as you file the proper paperwork! Your DH is the only one that must get pumped full of stuff...
post #7 of 22
Like the others said, they can't force you to vax your kids. HOwever I haven't heard that it flew with anyone to get a waiver for on-base childcare nor DOD schools anywhere. I hope they will someday...

I hate that DH was pumped full of vaccines (esp Flumist!!!). No anthrax vaccine here, hubbie is in the AF stateside and unlikely to be deployed. I heard somewhere that servicemembers are starting to fight mandatory vaccines... Let's hope there will be a waiver someday.
post #8 of 22
I am fighting this very battle with CYS right now! Only I want to become an FCC provider! It's a long battle and i don't know what will come of it...why oh why did i move on post!? i did daycare offpost and had no problems using my religious exemption! We are stationed at Ft. Riley.
post #9 of 22
I think it's ridic. Maybe we can start some sort of petition and collect signatures? I'd totally be willing to help start things. I mean it violates religious beliefs which I thought are protected in this country and they should! Even if you do not want to vaccinate for religious beliefs, you could still claim it as a belief can have many forms. I'm Catholic and they say that it won't fly. Though I find a bazillion bible phrases that could be used to proof that it's wrong.
On a side note: I think it violates our freedom and our kid's freedom tremendously. Being born in a communist country and forcefully vaccinated until I was 7 and the whole communist stuff crashed and my country was finally reunited, I extremely despise mandatory medical actions. I have a couple very bad memories and I certainly won't have things like that happen to my kids. Right now it will be the price that I will be longer a SAHM as planned (until he is in Kindergarten basically!) and we pay the price by renouncing on my income and just tone it down. But we are lucky that we can make due, even if it's tight, on one income. Many military families cannot!
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquelinej11 View Post
HOWEVER, my MIL (who also does not believe in vax's) pointed out to me today that I should also consider that Steven has been in a foreign country (he's in Iraq)... and that Marshall will be around other children who have been around their parents...
? Does she think your dh is going to bring home some "foreign" disease? We wouldn't have a vax for "it" anyway.


Quote:
Also, the daycare out here will not allow children in if they do not have the required vaxs.

I'm at a loss... Also, with all the moving I no longer know what the law is out here (we're in TX now) as we came from CA.
TX has all exemptions but with the military you will need to go religious.

If all else fails contact your congressmen; I'd carry their contact numbers in your purse along with the following regs (look them up and print out the actual pages).
Everyone you have to talk to will tell you a different requirement. Always demand (nicely) that they put their request in writing, reference the regulation, and sign their name to it.

Remember that you are a civilian, your children are civilians, and that they are not disease infested swamp things ). Also, as a civilian you can be Wiccan or Catholic and still be "opposed to the practice of immunization". The Chaplain can govern the exemptions of service members but not dependents. If you have a sympathetic person in your dh's chain of command you may want to take them to any meetings; in any case you will want a witness and to write down what they have told you immediately afterwards.


Quote:


MOTHERING THREAD
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/member.php?u=51507


DODEA
Quote:
http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/1005_1.pdf

On page 70 (section 18.2):

"18.2.1.3 Religious — A student’s parent/sponsor may claim exemption from the DoDEA immunization requirements for religious reasons. If the parent maintains the need to continue the religious exemption during a documented outbreak of a contagious disease, the student will be excluded from school for his/her protection and the safety of the other students until the contagious period is over. Religious exemptions require a written statement from the parent/sponsor stating that he/she objects to the vaccination based upon personal beliefs. "
and...
Quote:
Paragraph 3-2.b.(4) at the bottom of page 10 of this document:

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf It specifically states, "(4) Department of Defense schoolteachers, daycare center workers, and children attending DOD–sponsored schools
and daycare centers or similar facilities on military installations.
"
ARMY
Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
pg. 10, section 3.2, para 4 says:

Quote:
In addition, all other age appropriate ACIP–recommended vaccines for children are required unless there is documentation of previous immunization, religious exemption, or medical contraindication.
Army Regulation 608-10

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r608_10.pdf
4-3
(2) A waiver of the immunization requirement must be approved in writing by the Chief, Preventive Medicine or
health consultant. Parents must be counseled that children with waivers will be excluded from the program in the event
of vaccine preventable communicable disease outbreak.


C–37. Compliance item 15.

c. Equivalency. A waiver of immunizations signed by Chief, Preventive Medicine may be considered for religious
convictions. Parents must be counseled that the child may be excluded during an outbreak of vaccine preventable
communicable disease.




MARINE CORPS
MCO P1710.30E
MR
24 Jun 04

2005. HEALTH AND SANITATION GUIDELINES

3. In CDCs, FCC/OFCC, SAC, Youth and Teen and private organizations:
a. Children enrolled in CDP shall have on file documentation of current age
appropriate immunizations as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics.
Youth and Teen programs are exempt from this requirement.

http://www.usmc.mil/news/publication...W%20CH%201.pdf



AIR FORCE
Quote:
AFI 34-276 is the AFI that governs Family Child Care.
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share.../AFI34-276.pdf

Page 53. "A5.40.3. The provider maintains medical information for each child, including permission to treat emergencies signed by the parent(s), child’s allergies, chronic illness and other known health prob-lems, and immunizations (or written documentation of parents’ objections for religious reasons). This information is recorded on the AF Form 1181, Youth Flight Patron Registration Form."
Compare with the requirements for military members' religious exemptions:

Quote:
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfi.../afi34-248.pdf

AFI34-248 1 OCTOBER 1999 43
Chapter 11
HEALTH
11.1. Health Protection. Protect the health of staff, children, and parents while they are in the program.
Use Caring for Our Children: Health and Safety Guidelines for Out-of-Home Care as general guidance on
health issues not covered by this instruction.
11.2. Access. Limit the access of well children to children or adults with contagious illnesses.
11.2.1. Do not provide care to children without immunizations required by Air Force policy unless it
is an emergency.
(What is the Air Force policy that governs Immunizations, you ask?)

5.6. Child Development Program Assistant Training and Examinations.
5.6.8. Each staff member has had a physical examination within the last 3 years and the tests, examinations, and immunizations required by AF Joint Instruction 48-110, Immunizations and Chemprophylaxis.

Caring for Our Children: Health and Safety Guidelines for Out-of-Home Care
Under-Immunized Children-3.006 If immunizations are not given because of parents' religious beliefs, a waiver signed by the parent shall be on file. If a child who is not immunized is in care, the parents must be notified of the risk of the spread of preventable diseases.
http://nrc.uchsc.edu/ELG/elg_immunizations.htm
Quote:


http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A (NAVY)
AFJI 48–110 (Air Force Joint Instruction 48-110)
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F (COAST GUARD)


2–6. Exemptions
There are 2 types of exemptions from immunization: medical and administrative. Granting medical exemptions is a
medical function that can only be validated by a health care professional. Granting administrative exemptions is a
non–medical function, usually controlled by the individual’s unit commander....

(3) Religious.
(a) For Service personnel, immunization exemptions for religious reasons may be granted according to Service–
specific policies to accommodate doctrinal religious beliefs. This is a command decision made with medical and
chaplain advice.
1. Requests for religious exemption must include name, rank, social security number (SSN), occupational specialty
code or branch, and a description of the religious tenet or belief contrary to immunization. Army: (see AR 600–20,
para 5–6). Air Force: Permanent exemptions for religious reasons will not be granted. The major command (MAJCOM)
commander is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions. Coast
Guard: CG–122 is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions.
2. A military physician must counsel the applicant. The physician should ensure that the Service personnel is
making an informed decision and should address, at a minimum, specific information about the diseases concerned;
specific vaccine information including product constituents, benefits, and risks; and potential risks of infection incurred
by unimmunized individuals.
3. The commander must counsel the individual and recommend approval or denial of the exemption request, by
endorsement. The commander must counsel that noncompliance with immunization requirements may adversely impact
deployability, assignment, or international travel, and that the exemption may be revoked under imminent risk
conditions. The commander, in making his or her recommendation, should consider the potential impact on the
individual, the unit, and the mission.
4. Forward exemption requests through command channels to the respective Service approval authority for decision.
Individuals with active requests for religious exemption are temporarily deferred from immunizations pending outcome
of their request. For USCG, forward through appropriate chain to G–WPM, via CG–1121.
(b) Civilian employees submit religious–exemption requests to their supervisors. Such requests will be processed in
accordance with 29 CFR 1605 and component and local policies.
c. Bargaining units. Civilian personnel affected by this document who are members of bargaining units will be
considered for exemption consistent with applicable personnel management policies.
d. Other categories. Administrative or medical personnel will appropriately annotate electronic ITS with exemption
codes denoting separation, permanent change of station, emergency leave, missing or prisoner of war, deceased, and
other appropriate categories.
NAVY
See above. Also note that the Navy appears to follow DOD Regulations in regards to Navy daycare and youth programs.
https://qol.persnet.navy.mil/CYPWeb/...aspx?id=Policy

________________________________________________


United States> Code of Federal Regulations> Title 29 - Labor> CHAPTER XIV--EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION

29 C.F.R. PART 1605—GUIDELINES ON DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF RELIGION

§ 1605.1 “Religious” nature of a practice or belief.
In most cases whether or not a practice or belief is religious is not at issue. However, in those cases in which the issue does exist, the Commission will define religious practices to include moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views. This standard was developed in United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 (1965) and Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333 (1970). The Commission has consistently applied this standard in its decisions.1 The fact that no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not accept such belief will not determine whether the belief is a religious belief of the employee or prospective employee. The phrase “religious practice” as used in these Guidelines includes both religious observances and practices, as stated in section 701(j), 42 U.S.C. 2000e(j).





Quote:

To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution,
Army Regulation 40–562, BUMEDINST 6230.15A, AFJI 48–110, CG COMDTINST M6230.4F, pg. 10, section 3.2, para 4, to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date



post #11 of 22
My husband is in the Army and I've never had any problems with not vax'ing - at schools on base or at clinics on base. Usually I worry about it and it always ends up being for nothing. My husband has been deployed a couple of times and the thought never crossed my mind that my children would be in danger because he's been in a foreign country.
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
Emmeline

WOW Thank you so much! I don't know - she probably does think he'll "catch" something. Which I would hope not since they pump them full of drugs right before they leave! (UGH!)
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
We're a "soon to be military family" (DH leaves for AF Basic next month) so we've done our research.

I can tell you that TX has religious and philosophical exemptions! : Your DH will have to get updates on some of his shots (I believe) when he comes home for the very reason that he's been out of country for so long. I'm sure you can check with a CO or someone in the medical center. As far as I know the military cannot force you to vaccinate your child as long as you file the proper paperwork! Your DH is the only one that must get pumped full of stuff...
Your dh will be lined up with everyone else regardless of vax status and shot in the upper arm.

There are no circumstance by which the military can force vaccinations on civilian dependents; there is no paperwork involved.
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alohamelly View Post
My husband is in the Army and I've never had any problems with not vax'ing - at schools on base or at clinics on base. Usually I worry about it and it always ends up being for nothing. My husband has been deployed a couple of times and the thought never crossed my mind that my children would be in danger because he's been in a foreign country.
Weird. Usually the Army causes the most problems with exemptions and childcare.
post #15 of 22
Well, your decision to vax based on deployment issues depends on how effective you think vaxes are--I don't think they are that wonderful. Also, to me it is more dangerous for the kids to be around dads getting their vaxes to get ready for deployment.
You are right, the daycares will not take non-vaxed kids and neither will base affliated in-home daycare providers. We have just found a group of us that watch each others' children and don't use daycare. It is not a great environment for them IMO and most moms (if your child is well behaved) like to have the money you would be paying to daycare in return for babysitting.

To me, my child's health is worth any bending we have to do and we won't let these impediments stop us. I think you are doing a wonderful thing by questioning these things and will find the right path for yourself. I would say find a proper set of friends that are open--even if they decided to vax-- to your ways. Rely on them for moral and babysitting support. You will find a way.

As a testimonial, my child is the only one we know out of ALL of our friends and family who is developmentally on track/ahead of schedule, never acutely ill, etc. We have 3 year olds here who are not saying more than DA and Ma....not that that alll has to do with vaxes. We have not been deployed yet but all of our friends' husband's have been and we are not worried about them bringing something back with them. I think that if we keep ds' health in good order and keep up our research we can avoid health disasters--taking everything in stride and making the best decisions with the information we have at the time.
post #16 of 22
We used to be at Hood. My DS saw Dr. Ali at the Family and Children's Clinic in Harker Heights. She was fine with us not vaxing. I even had one of the nurses come up to me and say, "That's fine you don't vaccinate. We have a lot of people who don't."
Texas is so easy to get your exemption form. I sent my information away and had the forms in exactly a week. I never needed to use them, but I got them anyway, just in case. And they are supposed to be for religious exemption, but there really wasn't anything "religious" on the form. It could have changed since then, but it was only 2.5 years ago.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeslieB View Post
We used to be at Hood. My DS saw Dr. Ali at the Family and Children's Clinic in Harker Heights. She was fine with us not vaxing. I even had one of the nurses come up to me and say, "That's fine you don't vaccinate. We have a lot of people who don't."
Texas is so easy to get your exemption form. I sent my information away and had the forms in exactly a week. I never needed to use them, but I got them anyway, just in case. And they are supposed to be for religious exemption, but there really wasn't anything "religious" on the form. It could have changed since then, but it was only 2.5 years ago.
How do I go about getting that form???

And just out of curiosity does anyone know what this "religion" is that is legitimate for not vaxing - cause I've heard religions like Catholicism and what not don't count???
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquelinej11 View Post
How do I go about getting that form???

And just out of curiosity does anyone know what this "religion" is that is legitimate for not vaxing - cause I've heard religions like Catholicism and what not don't count???
Religion is defined as a cause,principle,or belief held to with faith. If you truely believe you shouldn't vax your child, it's a religious belief. I have heard on here that to question your religious beliefs is discrimination.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquelinej11 View Post
How do I go about getting that form???

And just out of curiosity does anyone know what this "religion" is that is legitimate for not vaxing - cause I've heard religions like Catholicism and what not don't count???
-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.

-Also, as your children are civilians you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination

-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.


-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquelinej11 View Post
How do I go about getting that form???
Here ya go: Exemption Form Request

And, wow, it's online now.
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