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The importance of grains....??  

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Our new ped referred me to a nutritionist at Bastyr, and we had our appointment this afternoon. If you remember my last trip to Bastyr, you are probably surprised that I visited that place again... but I figured WTH- I could use some help getting our diets more balanced. Maybe they will have some ideas for me. ha ha. Basically, after an hour and a half of talking, her response was "I don't know what to tell you" (because DD is allergic to everything that she wanted to suggest.) She's going to consult with our ped and do some research, and we're supposed to go back next week.

Anyway... I already forgot about the point of this thread. She kept pushing for me to add grains to DD's diet, and it really bugged me. She said that grains are a good way to add calories, which is true... but I responded that DD is still BF'ed, and that very few foods are more calorie-dense than BM; so obviously, the problem isn't calories, it's that DD isn't absorbing nutrients like she should. And grains would only excacerbate that problem by causing more irritation in her gut- RIGHT?

She argued that carbohydrates are vital, and that they are the only source of fuel for our brains, and pointed me to this article which was supposed to support her theory that humans have evolved to eat grains, and that they are very important to the human diet.

So... being the good sport that I am (and after her making me more stressed than I already was about DD's poor weight gain and falling off the growth charts), I read the article. Which does nothing but support MY theory about the grains, especially this part:
Quote:
Though only a few pockets of hunter-gatherers remain on Earth, for the first couple of million years of our species’ evolution—99.5 percent of the human experience—all people sustained themselves by hunting animals and gathering food from wild plants. Agriculture arose only 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, permitting more stable settlements and food supplies.
So grains have only been a part of the human diet for 0.5% of our existance on this planet, but that is supposed to mean that we have evolved to eat them, and now we NEED them in our diet? Really?

And the article only has one blurb about the need for glucose in the diet. There is one sentence in the whole article which supports what she was telling me:
Quote:
The brain is exquisitely dependent on having a continuous supply of glucose: too low a glucose level poses an immediate threat to survival.
But when I look up food sources of glucose, I find: "fruits, vegetables, table sugar, honey, milk products, cereals." And the article specifically talks about the problems associated with too much glucose, and high-glucose foods. So wouldn't I want to consume low glucose foods, like fruits and vegetables?

Is there something here that I'm missing? Is there really some important reason to feed my child grains at age 14mo? (I really don't need any convincing- I'm not going to add any grains to her diet [above her occasional bite of my buckwheat waffle]... just thought it would be an interesting discussion.)
post #2 of 17
OMG, I can't believe you went back there. Poor thing - sorry it was just as bad as before. I recently had to save my bro from an appointment there and convince him to go somewhere else. Really this phenomenon makes NO sense. How does an excellent school like Bastyr run such a shitty clinic?
post #3 of 17
Frankly, I'm not sure that Bastyr is actually all that excellent a school. I've seen many naturopaths who studied there and didn't know as much as I thought they ought to. It's a bit of a cattle farm really.

No, you're not missing anything. I wouldn't give her grains either. There are many other ways to get nutrient, calorie-dense foods into her once you are able to have a more varied diet. But you know that! Our doc doesn't agree with giving grains. He and his family eat totally paleo-style. When I brought up trialing gluten he said, Why would you want to do that? and then gave the same reasons you gave about how long humans have been eating grains. He thinks it is a really bad idea for people with gut issues and I totally agree. People are just completely brainwashed by the FDA food pyramid thingy and they believe what they've been taught. My midwife looked worried when I told her I don't bother much with grains. It's so silly.
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Frankly, I'm not sure that Bastyr is actually all that excellent a school. I've seen many naturopaths who studied there and didn't know as much as I thought they ought to. It's a bit of a cattle farm really.
Hmmmm....interesting...and crappy.
post #5 of 17
I do not think we are evolved to eat grains. In fact, my ds is intolerant to rice, brown and white. I discovered this when I didnt eat rice for a week and saw major improvement in him. I had been eating rice daily because it is least allergenic. Right? WRONG.... So no, I am not a fan of grains right now, and I can't believe they are pushing you to try grains. I'm thinking fruit and veg are definately more important than grains in a LO's diet. I no longer listen to the so called doctors. I am trusting my own intuition from now on, being so fed up with "specialists" that charge the world and tell you something you already know.... if they even do that!
post #6 of 17
Why do you need grains? They are a "filler", nothing more. Is there something that you can ONLY get from a grain? No. I can't believe our society is so dependent on the things that are the worst for us: dairy, gluten, corn and soy. The banes of my existence.
post #7 of 17
dd reacts to every single grain i can find, so we are def not on the grain bandwagon.
i think sprouted grains and sourdough have some redeeming qualities, but none that cant be found elsewhere.
post #8 of 17
what a bunch of horse crap. no, we don't need them. Yes, they are tasty and lots of people like to eat them. I think high calorie fatty foods would be much more pushed at this age, we know babies need lots of fat for good brain growth. The one ND we have is schooled at Bastyr and I will not be going back to her, was not impressed at all.
post #9 of 17
Wow. Just wow. I'm sorry you've had yet another disappointment. Wow.

eta: and what the heck does she think is in breastmilk???? Since babies need it exclusively for at least a half a year after birth, when their brains are growing faster than they ever will again, how does she think this works??
post #10 of 17
I'm sorry Do you have her email? I'd be tempted to email her your (very accurate) commentary of that article. Has she even read it?! Duh.
post #11 of 17
If you're really concerned about getting more calories into your DD, fatty meats (pasture-raised, and preferably cooked in a good bone broth) are the way to go. Lamb especially, since it's very non-allergenic and usually very tender, but has a good bit of iron. Meats are very digestible for babies, they DO contain more calories than BM, and won't irritate her gut (in fact bone broths can be very healing for the gut).

Grains are nice if you can eat them, but they ARE just filler - the pp who pointed out that there are no nutrients in grains that aren't in some other food in higher concentrations. They are by no means necessary, and a lot of kids under 2 lack the digestive enzymes to get ANYTHING out of them. But if you really want to get *starch* into your kid, potatoes are a good idea. (Mashed potatoes, cooked in bone broth.) Or sweet potatoes, yams, peas, garbanzos... lots of options there.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
I'm sorry Do you have her email? I'd be tempted to email her your (very accurate) commentary of that article. Has she even read it?! Duh.
That's exactly what DP said- "did she even read this article before she gave it to you?" :

And about the BM... she even said that after a year, BM just isn't enough for a babe- they HAVE to have food. I was like- well, that's debatable. Yet another quote from the article:
Quote:
Hunter-gatherers have long intervals between births, because they do not wean children until age four or five, when teeth are ready to chew hard foods.
So I'm interpreting that to mean that babies still got most of their nutrition from BM for the first 4-5 years of life, until they could effectively chew meat. And really, they would have to be nursing quite regularly to prevent pregnancy...

Thanks spughy- lamb is actually one of the few foods DD tolerates, and we eat a LOT of it- and cook all our veggies in the lamb fat. That's another thing that I brought up to the nutritionist when she kept pushing the grains for calories... that we aren't short on calories or fat, we are in need of healing and finding our nutrient deficiencies in my limited diet.
post #13 of 17
Well, I didn't read all the comments. I agree that we weren't evolved eating grains. However, soaked and fermented grains probably did occur "organically" ("rotting" on the stalk). And may have been consumed as a food source. Soaked grains are much more bio-available of some significant B-vitamins. Additionally, carbohydrates increase calories stored, when consumed in the presence of fats. Otherwise, the food fats and our muscle and fat is broken down as an energy source. (See the 'eat fat, lose weight' thread around here; I think in NT.)

Breast milk loses some of its fat content overtime, especially, as your stores and intake are limited. I agree that breastmilk is all a baby needs until about a year, maybe 6-12 months. Ds was exclusively breastfed until about 15 months, due to lack of interest and our significant food intolerances/limited diet. I was eating salmon morning, noon, and night for calories and starving. But, I wasn't actually consuming much in the way of calories or variety of fruits and vegetables, nor grains. So, I wonder how much fat he received in my breastmilk when he was that old.

So, I think our breastmilk is only as good as our nutritional stores, and at some point those become depleted. Increasing the nutritient supplements through foods begs the question, 'Which foods?'. I certainly wouldn't add worthless crackers, but a "banana bread" with zucchini, carrots, squash, etc. ground up into it, would add nutritients and flavor, with the grains as the foundation/vehicle. Pancakes can similarly be amended with fruits and vegetables, but you have a limited menu.

PaxMamma, just shared this recipe. It's GF/CF: (damn, you can't do eggs, though, right?)

1 cup rice flour
2 tsps GF baking powder
3 T flax seed meal
1 tsp celtic sea salt
3 eggs
1 cup rice milk
2 T olive oil
veggie concoction
mix dry and wet ingredients separately, then together.

veggie concoction:
again, i make an octuplet batch at a time, so i will try to guess how much would go into one batch, but you can add anything you like. i've done avocado, mango, berries, peas, etc:
1/2 sweet potato
1/2 zucchini
1/2 banana
1/2 apple
3 stalks asparagus
2 medium carrots
steam veggies then blend all in a blender w/a portion of the rice milk.

Basically, increasing your whole food *source* of nutrients is the goal, I believe. Soaked whole grains are totally different than nutrient deficent, processed crackers and other empty grains. There are many more options with whole grains, than with processed grains. You can be selective with the grain foundation: barley, amaranth, quinoa, millet, brown rices, etc. And then add some variety and flavor to increase interest and consumption. 'Cause a plain yellow squash gets O.L.D. But, you can add pureed yellow squash to anything!

If you increase carbohydrates, you'll increase calories stored, in my understanding.

HTH, Pat
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Basically, increasing your whole food *source* of nutrients is the goal, I believe.
That is exactly what I am going for, and what I was trying to get the nutritionist to help me with. The only reason I went is because the ped told me "oh, they have a program... they just punch in all the foods that you're eating, and it tells you what you're deficient in." That's what I was hoping to get... some ideas for foods that will fill the gaps in my diet- like vitamin E and folate and others...

I'm already doing freshly ground & soaked buckwheat for myself, because I need those calories. But I tested positive for all gluten grains, so those are out.... and the other grains really are on the absolute bottom of my list to try. I feel like there are so many other foods that would be a WAY better source of nutrients than grains.

Thanks for the recipes... of course, I can't use them. Out of those things: I don't have a safe baking powder, DD is allergic to flax, eggs, sweet potato, carrot, apple, avocado, peas, and possibly rice, olive oil, banana (they were suspect, but I still need to do an official trial.)
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Thanks for the recipes... of course, I can't use them. Out of those things: I don't have a safe baking powder, DD is allergic to flax, eggs, sweet potato, carrot, apple, avocado, peas, and possibly rice, olive oil, banana (they were suspect, but I still need to do an official trial.)
You can't make your own baking powder. I use 1 tsp. tapioca starch + 1 tsp. baking soda + 1 tsp. cream of tartar. And I've also used sweet potato starch instead of the tapioca starch (which I see you can't do) and arrowroot starch, so it seems like any "starch" will do in that place. The other thing you can do for a baking powder is baking soda + vinegar (I think it's 1 tsp. baking soda + 1 Tbs. vinegar, but don't quote me on that). We use white balsamic vinegar or white wine vinegar (if you can do grapes). We can't do corn, wheat, apple, or rice so the other vinegars are out for us.

What CAN you eat right now?
post #16 of 17
[QUOTE=changingseasons;12772890 The only reason I went is because the ped told me "oh, they have a program... they just punch in all the foods that you're eating, and it tells you what you're deficient in." That's what I was hoping to get... some ideas for foods that will fill the gaps in my diet- like vitamin E and folate and others...[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what our nutritionist did. She put into a program what we had eaten for 3 days and told us where we were deficient, gave us ideas for safe foods we should add, and where we need to add supplements. She also said don't worry about grains and her list of solids for DD was based on WAPF. She also said she had just gone to a WAPF conference, although she said she doesn't agree with everything they recommend (which I like because she researches and makes her own decisions). Maybe you could find someone who follows some of the WAPF or other traditional food recommendations?
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
You can't make your own baking powder. I use 1 tsp. tapioca starch + 1 tsp. baking soda + 1 tsp. cream of tartar. And I've also used sweet potato starch instead of the tapioca starch (which I see you can't do) and arrowroot starch, so it seems like any "starch" will do in that place. The other thing you can do for a baking powder is baking soda + vinegar (I think it's 1 tsp. baking soda + 1 Tbs. vinegar, but don't quote me on that). We use white balsamic vinegar or white wine vinegar (if you can do grapes). We can't do corn, wheat, apple, or rice so the other vinegars are out for us.

What CAN you eat right now?
Well, I can't do tapioca or sweet potato... and I'm not sure about arrowroot. And no vinegar.

Right now I'm still on buckwheat waffles (bw, sea salt, palm shortening, blueberries, water), lamb, zucchini, broccoli, beets... and then a cal/mag and vit c supp, and licorice root tea. Oh, and raw honey, and kefir and kombucha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waluso View Post
This is exactly what our nutritionist did. She put into a program what we had eaten for 3 days and told us where we were deficient, gave us ideas for safe foods we should add, and where we need to add supplements. She also said don't worry about grains and her list of solids for DD was based on WAPF. She also said she had just gone to a WAPF conference, although she said she doesn't agree with everything they recommend (which I like because she researches and makes her own decisions). Maybe you could find someone who follows some of the WAPF or other traditional food recommendations?
Blah. I'm done with the 'professionals'. I'm just going to continue doing my own research.... It's just really annoying when you're paying someone (a LOT) and you know more than they do. This particular nutritionist is actually the specialist for people with food sensitivities at Bastyr.
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