Desperate. My sweet boy is crying alone in his room right now. *Update* Everything is even worse... - Page 4

[JennaW]

Forgive me, I don't have time to read all of the posts but did read most of PP's posts.

Also, feel free to take my ideas with a grain of salt as I don't have a toddler.

Okay, so here is my idea.

Is there any way to make this about *YOUR* sleep and not DS's sleep? For example, can you instill a bed time routine for yourself? Maybe brush your teeth, put on jammies, read a magazine and then say "Okay, time for Mama to go to sleep". Bring DS into your room (I am guessing it is child-proofed, if not, you would need to do that for this to work). Then get in bed and go to sleep, lights out. Tell DS. "Mama is very tired, it is her bed time now and I am going to sleep. I need you to stay in the room with me so I know you are safe." Don't try to make him go to sleep or do anything. Now, obviously, you probably won't be able to sleep if DS is up making a racket. But maybe you can pretend to sleep and if he is being really nosiy you could gently say "Shhh baby, Mama is trying to sleep, remember?"

If things were to go the way I see them going in my head, he would probably put up a huge fuss but then settle down and maybe come cuddle next to you. If you get that TV, maybe you could put that in when you are going to sleep if you want to try that. As for nursing, I would consider getting a special stuffed animal and giving it a name, let's say Fuzzy. Let DS know that once Fuzzy comes out, no more nursing until Fuzzy goes back to his home in the morning. Maybe you guys could decorate a box to be Fuzzy's special home. I would offer to nurse him before you bring Fuzzy out though.

Anyway, just some ideas, HTH in some way. I feel for you Mama, my LO can be a terrible sleeper at times and your brain just goes to a whole different place when you are tired and all you want if for your LO to sleep without being permanently attached to your breast.

[prettypixels]

Jenna, those are great ideas!

I just vacuumed my awful sleeper down for her nap. I was thinking about you Pumpkin, and just wanted to stop back by here and say... you are a GREAT MOM. I hope you know that.

[AlicesMama]

I understand your worry about the TV, I always thought before DD was born that TV was for much later on - like around 5.

But then I was so overwhelmed one day I just stuck her infront of it and she was fascinated. It was most unexpected, I didn't think she'd react to it at all but she did.

I'm afraid since then I've just let her have a bit every day and when we found this nice programme towards the end of the day, I relented on my 'no tele before 5 years old' because it was so nice to have a few minutes to myself!

The tele is never on any other time of the day, just for that 30 minutes every day and it's very gentle. To be honest, she often gets tired towards the end and I always make sure if she starts crying that I come in and sit with her, as I want her to enjoy it, not for it to be something she hates.

Sometimes I have to hold her towards the end if she's really tired, but I nearly always get 10 or 15 minutes to myself at the start which is lovely.

The only other thing is, does your LO like baths? DD used to hate them and it made her totally wired, but now she seems to be relaxing into them a bit, just wondered if you'd tried that one again, as I'd left it out of the routine for a long time, but just had a phase where we started it up again and she seems to find it relaxing now. What winds them up or down seems to change as they get older. Anyway, just a thought...

I should add, I'm not a single Mum, but my DH is never home before 10pm and DD is always in bed by then, so I had to work out the bedtime routine for myself - I've often felt like a single mum as DH works v v v long hours and even on the weekend too so I have to do it all myself.

When implementing the new routine for bed at 7pm, my Mum came round from about 5 to 8pm every day for a few days to help me get her into it. Is there anyone who could help you for a few hours like that?

I guess it's a big ask, but it just means you can keep consistency so much easier if there are two of you there. Before that I had NO routine at all and I do think it's because DH was never around and I was overwhelmed alone by a very high needs child. It's so much harder when you're on your own but it sounds like you're doing a really good job and you should give yourself a big pat on the back from time to time and not be so hard on yourself.

[Lizafava]

Originally Posted by prettypixels

Finally I just want to say... you did not do this. It is not your "fault." This is just your child, the way your child is, and no matter what, this is how they would be. Some kids are good sleepers, some aren't, period. Unlucky, but NOT YOUR FAULT.

I just wanted to say that because I know that frequently I want to blame myself, and then I talk to other parents and am like... "OH."

That whole post was awesome, but I wanted to quote this part because its just so important. Its just dumb luck.

[ChocolateNummies]

When I night weaned my son, I explained that he could have nummies for a few minutes but then we'd have to stop and would just cuddle for him to fall asleep.

He has such an attachment to my nummies I told him he could hold them (my breasts) with his hands when we were done nursing. If he asked for more nursing I'd tell him my nummies were tired.

I also always mentioned that I would be getting up to do things after he fell asleep but that I would be back later to cuddle with him when I was done and to please keep the bed warm for me.

I gradually lessened the amount of time he got to nurse, then started lessening the amount of time he could hold my breasts.

The first two or three days we started this were the hardest and each time I shortened a step, we had a few days of mild upset. If he ever seemed really upset I'd put off the next step a little longer.

I would go back in if he woke up but wouldn't nurse him again til morning. He only got to nurse the first time down. I'd try to first cuddle him/backrub him to sleep but would let him hold my nummies if he seemed to really need it. These times gradually became fewer and further between.

Not sure if any of those ideas would work for you but it worked for us (not necessarily as smoothly as typing it out sounds). I hope you get some much-needed rest and you and your lo find an acceptable night routine.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Thank-You all soooooo much for your replies. You have no idea how much it means to me to read these. I am feeling a bit better tonight and although I am still extremely ashamed of my behavior last night, I know that I can only vow to do better in the future. I can't change what has happened, and he does not seem any worse for the wear.

I just posted a "wanted" ad on my local freecycle for a tv and dvd player. We are pretty low income and a new tv is definitely not in the budget, but maybe it will work. I think I am going to post over in Toddler's for rec's on good low key movies for non-tv watching kids.

I really don't want to do CIO, and I really do believe that it is harmful. I only did it because I was feeling like it was less harmful than what was running through my head at the moment. I was feeling so much like I was ready to hit him that I really felt like putting the baby gate up and letting him cry up there was a much safer option. He actually only cried for about 10 minutes. Granted, I wish that was more like 30 seconds, but it is what it is and it is in the past now. Anyway, I appreciate the story of the child crying for three hours in the crib. I am pretty sure that would be my son if I did do CIO with him. He is such a strong willed kid. I am sure he will be so strong and successful as an adult. I just need to make sure we both make it to that point.

To the above poster recommending "holding" my breasts. I actually have just started this, and he is responding to it pretty well, but it really is almost as painful/irritating as nursing too long. I try to get him to just have his hand flat, but he ends up twiddling as he falls asleep. I will often fall asleep with his hand on my breast and he wakes me up pinching or twisting my nipple without meaning to. It occasionally works, but not always. It is a good thing to remember though.

Prettypixels, thank-you so much for your kindness. It is good to be reminded that he is his own person who just happens to be genetically programmed to not require much sleep at all. It is so hard when I am exhausted to remember that he is not doing this "to me" and I also did not do it "to him". It is just who he is. It does suck, but there is nothing I can do to change who he is.

Well, it is now nearly 9pm, and he is playing strong in the living room. I pretty much have decided to let him go until he says he is tired and wants to go to bed. He had an insanely busy day today, and walked a TON in single digit (F) temps, so I know he SHOULD sleep well. We will see.

Thanks so much again mamas. You are my rock when I am adrift in this messy world of parenthood.

ETA: I posted on freecycle for a tv, and already have an offer of one! : I am most likely going to go pick it up tomorrow!

[NiteNicole]

To the above poster recommending "holding" my breasts. I actually have just started this, and he is responding to it pretty well, but it really is almost as painful/irritating as nursing too long. I try to get him to just have his hand flat, but he ends up twiddling as he falls asleep. I will often fall asleep with his hand on my breast and he wakes me up pinching or twisting my nipple without meaning to. It occasionally works, but not always. It is a good thing to remember though.

I know with my bad sleeper, constant physical contact eventually starts to make me want to crawl out of my skin and run away. Can you find an inexpensive long beaded necklace you could wear at night that he could fiddle with? It might be something soothy to "worry" his hands with and it's something you could redirect him to that's part of you but not YOU so you get a break. If you find something safe (check for ones made FOR children, maybe?) it's something you could possibly eventually let him hold even when you're not wearing.

[veganone]

I'm so sorry mama. I have a moderately bad sleeper in comparison, and a DH who will help when I am ready to throw her across the room. I can't imagine how hard this is for you.

You are a GREAT mama to do as well as you are considering.

Can you find someone (maybe on Finding My Tribe?) to watch him for a few hours once a week so you can nap? I have done that with DH (one nap on Sunday) and it helps SO much psychologically (I don't think that 2 hours makes or breaks the sleep dep, but it helps a lot to look forward to it).

I have tried the thing an MDC mama posted about at some point of humming (she sang, I think) a verse or two of a lullaby while snuggling DD at night when she wakes. I try this before nursing, but will nurse if it's not working. I never thought it would work, but sometimes it does. I also only try if it's been less than 2 hours (I do fine if she'll sleep in solid 2 hour blocks).

I have a small pillow on the bed that I use to put against her back where my arm usually is when I get out of bed. It helps when she moves and doesn't feel me. Not always, but I know she rolls back onto it and doesn't wake up every time like she does if she rolls flat onto her back (she's usually on her side).

I sleep in a sleep bra that keeps my nipples covered, but allows DD to stroke my breast without twiddling, which also does help some.

I agree with trying a no-leak sippy cup to just see if he's thirsty.

Some days when DD is really active with no down time, she's so wound up she can't relax at night. I love boring activities in the evening after around 5 or so.

If she is up and hyper I will let her be up in the living room, with dim lights, and I sit on the couch and mostly ignore her and read a book. She gets mad, but I refuse to make staying awake late fun for her. I'm trying to make it boring for her so there's less incentive to try to stay awake. We'll see how it goes... I basically only interact with her for safety issues or if she's truly melting down. Mostly she plays until she's exhausted, which can take a while.

I find Motrin works better for teething than Tylenol for us, maybe it's worth a shot?

TV in moderation will not damage your child. A sane mama is more important than a little TV, sweetie. Honestly (and I'm no TV advocate). I'm glad freecycle came through!

I am so very sorry, mama. I wish you rest and peace. I don't think people with good sleepers can ever understand how horrible real sleep deprivation is. (((hug)))

[treehuggermama]

Mama! Couldn't help but send hugs your way after reading your posts. I too have been extremely sleep deprived for oh 5 years now with dreadful sleepers and now my littlest man is waking every hour since he started getting his incisors. The other morning I awoke so tired I wanted to vomit and I can definitely relate to being so tired that you aren't the kind of mama you want to be. Hang in there!!

[Dandelionkid]

Yikes- you are supermom no matter what you may feel- just for surviving 2 years and no sleep by yourself and still trying new solutions!!

My friend has a child the same way- she read an article about routine being really important for night sleep in some children. It worked for them!! As soon as they made every thing happen at the same time every day he started consistently sleeping through the night (he was about 18 months). They find he takes a couple days to get over a "no- routine" day- poor sleep etc. Would this work for you to try?

[UptownZoo]

Oye. Oh, Mama, I hear you. I'm not gonna offer you any advice or suggestions, only commiseration. My youngest just never slept. It was a nightmare. Totally unbelievable how little he slept. He was also high needs in every way.

I facilitate a support group for parents of high needs babies/toddlers, and there is one thing that is absolutely universal among the people I've met and talked to: they are ALL afraid they'll hurt the baby. Most often, they have visions of throwing the baby through the window (that was what I most often feared), but there are others. It's an awful, gut-wrenching feeling, and totally, 100% normal. Your response is only an indication of your emotional and physical exhaustion and means nothing at all about anything else.

I just thought I'd share that because guilt so often complicates matters in these situations.

[NamastePlatypus]

Don't feel alone! I sure did for a long time ( e had two sleep studies, one at 13 monthes and another at 26) He was the SAME way. I would try and night wean every 6 monthes and it ended like what you are doing right now. He would take at LEAST three hours to get down and once he was he was up every 20 -45 min, nurse and scream for at least an hour and repeat that all night. I was lucky to get a total of 4 hours a night for almost three years. RIght around three year mark he has gotten WAY more awesome at night. It got really bad right before it got better and he never really nightweaned until he self weaned all together when I was about 5 monthes preg. Pushing him will make it worse for both I know. I am not a single mom but I might was well should be whenit came to this kinda situation. I found what worked best was to make the night routine the same everysingle night. Dinner at 6, bath by 630/45 books at 7, nursedown and cuddle for however long it took. WE cosleep though. Around that age we were no tv and still are for the most part but we would cuddle on the couch and I would watch hgtv or something until he fell asleep and then he would stay on the couch until I took him to bed with me. I know that might be frowned on here but it was the only thing that worked and we still do that sometimes.
I would rule out any medical reason. We know now that he is on the autism spectrum and that that is why he CAN"T do what is normal when it comes to sleep. Transtions are impossiable for him, day or night. He stopped naps at 8 monthes, would be up until one in the morn all the time, up all night as I mentioned, then up for the day at 5. He has a short circuit in that evertime he hits a new sleep cycle he wakes up fight or flight.
What is daytime behaviour like?
Could he be anemic, that can affect sleep
have you tried calms forte or other herbs?
PM if you need support, I have been there and it is hard!

[NamastePlatypus]

oh and I cryed ALOT! I can remember losing my cool with him and him screaming in one room and my crying in the other. How could I be so angry with someone i loved so much and that was so helpless? It is a terriable cycle.
Here is a link for SPD, I know that that is when we started getting help for e.

[FreeRangeMama]

Wow, you are awesome to stay as patient as you have! Please don't beat yourself up, sleep deprivation is HELL! Any of us who have been there understand. You are existing on nothing, but you haven't given up, you are still trying to problem solve and make it better. That just shows how much love you have for your little guy and THAT will outshine a few angry sleepless nights


It really isn't your fault. Some sleep and some don't. I have 4 kids. 2 are horrible sleepers, 1 is an AWESOME sleeper, and one is just pretty typical. My eldest only slept 5 hours every 24 hour period for 3 years. Not consecutive hours either. 3 years of less than 3 hours a night of sleep for me (I had to get up really early to deliver papers for much of that time!). I agree with the poster who said it was like PTSD, I don't even know how I functioned toward the end.


The things that helped was NO stimulation at all after 4pm. We are tv-free now, but we weren't then. If I put on a video it absolutely could not go later than that. He needed tons of physical exercise (outdoors preferably, indoor places were too overstimulating for him), but it had to be in the morning or early afternoon. He needed his bath and dinner at about the same time and we had to adhere to a fairly strict bedtime schedule (which was hard because we are not typically schedule people, or at least we weren't then.....7.5 years with him in our lives have changed that by necessity ). This helped him get more sleep, not lots, but more.


My 2nd slept 12 hours a night from birth. This helped me realize that sleep problems are NOT MY FAULT!


My 3rd is a non-sleeper. She is 3 and frequently plays all night while the rest of us sleep. She is a non-sleeper of the overtired/can't sleep variety. One off sleep day and she won't get back to a good sleep rhythm for a week. Exercise, stimulation (or lack of), food, or any of that make no difference. Her poor sleeping is purely due to being too overtired to get well rested leading to the vicious non-sleep cycle. We try to keep her sleep regular though sometimes it is hard.


My 4th sleeps pretty average. Occasional all night nursing binges (usually teething or growth/milestone related). This leads me to once again be reminded that it is NOT MY FAULT!



This is just a wordy way to say that:

1)It is NOT YOUR FAULT

2)all kids (even the non-sleepers) are different, it may help to figure out what happens on days when he sleeps well to see if there is a pattern so you have a better idea of what may help

3)sleep is vital, do what you must to get it. If you do put in a video it seems that mornings (so you can sleep a little later) seems to be tolerated better than late night videos (which have the potential to make things worse)


4)You are doing the best you can in a really, really crappy situation. It really won't last forever. Even if he never sleeps better he will get older and won't NEED you to be there while he can't/won't sleep. Don't give up, you are doing a great job in a tough spot!

Hope something works to get you a little more sleep soon

[MayBaby2007]

Originally Posted by JennaW

Forgive me, I don't have time to read all of the posts but did read most of PP's posts.

Also, feel free to take my ideas with a grain of salt as I don't have a toddler.

Okay, so here is my idea.

Is there any way to make this about *YOUR* sleep and not DS's sleep? For example, can you instill a bed time routine for yourself? Maybe brush your teeth, put on jammies, read a magazine and then say "Okay, time for Mama to go to sleep". Bring DS into your room (I am guessing it is child-proofed, if not, you would need to do that for this to work). Then get in bed and go to sleep, lights out. Tell DS. "Mama is very tired, it is her bed time now and I am going to sleep. I need you to stay in the room with me so I know you are safe." Don't try to make him go to sleep or do anything. Now, obviously, you probably won't be able to sleep if DS is up making a racket. But maybe you can pretend to sleep and if he is being really nosiy you could gently say "Shhh baby, Mama is trying to sleep, remember?"

If things were to go the way I see them going in my head, he would probably put up a huge fuss but then settle down and maybe come cuddle next to you. If you get that TV, maybe you could put that in when you are going to sleep if you want to try that. As for nursing, I would consider getting a special stuffed animal and giving it a name, let's say Fuzzy. Let DS know that once Fuzzy comes out, no more nursing until Fuzzy goes back to his home in the morning. Maybe you guys could decorate a box to be Fuzzy's special home. I would offer to nurse him before you bring Fuzzy out though.

Anyway, just some ideas, HTH in some way. I feel for you Mama, my LO can be a terrible sleeper at times and your brain just goes to a whole different place when you are tired and all you want if for your LO to sleep without being permanently attached to your breast.

This is what I do (single mom with 18 month old). It works very well for us, most of the time. I'm extremely laxed....and extremely tired. I've made the bedroom as safe I can--outlets covered, nothing plugged in, she can't climb and fall through window, bedroom door closed (will install a chain lock soon, she's starting to understand how to open the door) etc. I keep lots of fun toys in there and switch them out every so often.

We still co sleep and our matress is on the floor. After working a 16 hour shift and after being awake for over 24 hours....there comes a point where I cannot stay awake any longer. I lay down and I go to sleep. I've been known to sleep through her whining many times. I have to do what I have to do. I will wake up for the "something's wrong cry". But my brain blocks out the whining. Sometimes she'll join me and nap, other times she'll play or jump on me (I sleep through that too. I'm a freaking tired mama!). Sometimes she just whines and reluctantly plays with something. I don't care what anyone thinks about this system. It's the only thing I can do. It's worked for 12 months (crawling stage-present) and no harm done.

I have also had my dark moments with dd. There are moments I regret so badly...but all I can do is move forward. There were at least 2 times I SCREAMED at her because I was ready to loose my mind from lack of sleep. So loud that anyone outside could have heard me...and my windows were closed. Screaming shut her up and I went to sleep. I feel freaking horrible about that. You are not alone! It sucks...but we have to learn from it and move forward and find a better system that works for us. I've since found a better system--I load up on pills and coffee (I'm such a great role model, I know) and stay up for 30-35 hours straight and I wait until she's exhausted so I can get a 3 hour nap with her. Did that today. Working midnights now...and I'm so tired, I'm dizzy.

Other times, it's not safe for me to stay awake (balance off, falling, not coherent, or accidentally falling asleep and letting her have the entire house to play in) and I'm forced to sleep through her whining and let my brain shut her out. I have to. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. YOU, mama. You have to get sleep. You have to. Get that tv and put it in your bedroom or his bedroom and let him watch some tv. Do whatever you can to get you some sleep.

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie

I think I am going to post over in Toddler's for rec's on good low key movies for non-tv watching kids.

I don't let dd watch much tv, but my gramma does while I'm working. My gramma has dd hooked on this series called "Bed Bugs" www.mybedbugs.com They are these annoying little things that teach kids about "stuff"...and sing and dance, the usual. But my dd is obsessed with these things. She only gets them at gramma's house though--it's special like that

[OkiMom]

I agree with the PP that said to make it about your sleep. Thats one of the only ways I can get DD1 to go to sleep. Ill get ready for bed, read to her, turn off the lights and tell her Im going to sleep. Within half an hour she will be laid down asleep next to me. If I tried to fight her or make her go to sleep it would take hours.

Im sorry your DS isn't sleeping, it can be really hard.

[triple07]

Lots of hugs mama and you are not a bad mom either, although I know exactally how you feel. This is how DS has been with me the past couple nights, since DS2 came home from the hospital. I hope things work out for you (and me lol)

[Pumpkin_Pie]

So, hooray for Freecycle! I am going to pick up a tv and dvd player from a next door neighbor at 5 tonight. She literally lives about two houses over and has both tv an dvd. I don't think many stores that sell dvd's are open today, but I think we will be shopping for his new "give mama some peace" dvd tomorrow.

Also, last night was great. I know it always swings back and forth for him but my approach was much different. I took him upstairs to get his pj's on, brush teeth and change his dipe and then brought him back downstairs without nursing or even really getting into bed. He got down on the floor and played pretty hard for an hour or so and finally around 9:15, he climbed up into my lap, asked to nurse and conked out within about 15 minutes. I let him lay there for another 10 minutes or so and then brought him up to bed. It was easy, but I worry that I am somehow doing something wrong by letting him fall asleep on the couch beside me in the evening. I guess whatever works. I still worry though.

[Mama Mko]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie

Also, last night was great. I know it always swings back and forth for him but my approach was much different. I took him upstairs to get his pj's on, brush teeth and change his dipe and then brought him back downstairs without nursing or even really getting into bed. He got down on the floor and played pretty hard for an hour or so and finally around 9:15, he climbed up into my lap, asked to nurse and conked out within about 15 minutes. I let him lay there for another 10 minutes or so and then brought him up to bed. It was easy, but I worry that I am somehow doing something wrong by letting him fall asleep on the couch beside me in the evening. I guess whatever works. I still worry though.

When Alexander was still nursing, I often let him fall asleep on my lap. At 3, he tells us he's tired and we put him in his bed and scratch or rub his back for about 10 minutes, then he is out. He does wake up between 5 and 9 am usually to use the bathroom and climbs in bed with us, but that's okay with us. My point is that letting him fall asleep by you on the couch doesn't ruin his sleep routine for life.

I let Jack fall asleep nursing on my lap every day.

I'm glad last night was less stressful.

[veganone]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie

Also, last night was great. I know it always swings back and forth for him but my approach was much different. I took him upstairs to get his pj's on, brush teeth and change his dipe and then brought him back downstairs without nursing or even really getting into bed. He got down on the floor and played pretty hard for an hour or so and finally around 9:15, he climbed up into my lap, asked to nurse and conked out within about 15 minutes. I let him lay there for another 10 minutes or so and then brought him up to bed. It was easy, but I worry that I am somehow doing something wrong by letting him fall asleep on the couch beside me in the evening. I guess whatever works. I still worry though.

Whatever works!!! What works today might not tomorrow or a week or a month from now, so just do whatever works today. We walked DD around the block in the stroller for like 3 months at one point because it was the ONLY thing that worked. Luckily she let me rock her to sleep again before it got too cold.