Having a boy... to circ or not to circ? - Page 5

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

ITA!

Just the thought of cutting off part of someone elses genitals just seems like such a strange thing to do...if you forget about culture and tradition and all the other nonsense that surrounds this issue and bring it down to it's core it's laughable (if it weren't so disturbing)..

anyone considering male genital mutilation is contemplating cutting off part of someone elses genitals...it's weird!

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Everytime I hear someone say " before you make the decision " I want to scream. It should not be even up for consideration to sexually mutilate your child. Period. Listen to what you are saying people ( meant generally to anyone that considers circ a choice ). Listen to each word and see the action that they imply. Do you notice the appalling and destructive action you are discussing? We are talking the choice of parents to cut off parts of their childs genitals. The question being asked at all is just insane.

[LavenderMae]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Everytime I hear someone say " before you make the decision " I want to scream. It should not be even up for consideration to sexually mutilate your child. Period. Listen to what you are saying people ( meant generally to anyone that considers circ a choice ). Listen to each word and see the action that they imply. Do you notice the appalling and destructive action you are discussing? We are talking the choice of parents to cut off parts of their childs genitals. The question being asked at all is just insane.

I could not agree more.

[CellarDoor]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Everytime I hear someone say " before you make the decision " I want to scream. It should not be even up for consideration to sexually mutilate your child. Period. Listen to what you are saying people ( meant generally to anyone that considers circ a choice ). Listen to each word and see the action that they imply. Do you notice the appalling and destructive action you are discussing? We are talking the choice of parents to cut off parts of their childs genitals. The question being asked at all is just insane.

ITA, but when I bring up the subject to a person who lives in a circ'ing culture and thinks it's *totally normal* I tend to tread lightly. Preaching has never gotten me very far! Unfortunately, male circ IS a choice for any parent in this country and it's always better IMO to present the information and leave the "ah ha" moment up to them. Of course, I've only just started my intactivism, so I don't have much of a leg to stand on!

[kriket]

Originally Posted by MaClaire

ITA, but when I bring up the subject to a person who lives in a circ'ing culture and thinks it's *totally normal* I tend to tread lightly. Preaching has never gotten me very far! Unfortunately, male circ IS a choice for any parent in this country and it's always better IMO to present the information and leave the "ah ha" moment up to them. Of course, I've only just started my intactivism, so I don't have much of a leg to stand on!

: I've also found this. If you rage on at them about mutation they just feel like the are being pelted with granola by a crazy woman in an ivory tower on a horse on a soap box.

Although, on the inside I'm on my horse in my tower chucking granola. Thats the inside tho, its weird in there

[suprgrl]

Originally Posted by BnInTheOvn

The idea that "well yes, it hurts, but the baby will never remember it" is just horrifying to me. My daughter broke her leg at 1 year, and wont remember it. But that doesnt mean it didnt hurt so I should break the other one too... I just hate that form of reasoning that they wont remember it. I cant imagine hurting a little baby like that.
In a different post it was compared to tearing off a fingernail, is that accurate??

A friends son does remember his circ, and told his mom about it in detail as a child... the really sad part is they did it in the hospital despite the parents saying they dod NOT want him circ'd.

Another friend's baby is 2.5mo and still screams during diaper changes. What does it do to a baby to have the most sensitive part of your body.. .your sex organ partially amputated as one of your first life experiences?: Gives me the chills to think about it.
I'll tell you from personal experiencethat sex with an intact man is on a whole different level. PM me if you want more info on that.

[Kylix]

BnInTheOven--One other thing to do while deciding is to stop using the term "uncirced". You are not undoing anything when you leave your baby intact. You are leaving your baby as he was born--natural and perfectly intact.

I think the terms "uncirced" and "uncut" perpetuate the idea that circumcision is normal and that to not circumcise takes a lot of effort and action. And it does not, it is very simple, leave your baby as is.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Night_Nurse

Teenage boys think about sex quite a bit. Trust me, he'll keep it clean.

Although I am an intactivist and my boys are intact, I have to disagree with this.

I know quite a few teenaged boys, and some of them still have to be prodded to shower daily. My almost 17yo is one of them, and a few of my boys' friends have admitted to not showering all that often. I can't speak for the other boys, but I inherited my son's computer when we upgraded his, and I found some pretty interesting things on it....I know he thinks about sex!

I also run into teens and grown men who can't be bothered to use deodorant and don't seem to have any sense of smell. They look clean, but smell bad. Last night my two sons had two other boys sleeping over. They were all in the basement playing video games when I got home from work, and I could smell the stench of B.O. on the first floor. I hollered down the stairs and said "whoever smells like armpit needs to clean up and put on a fresh shirt." They all laughed and argued over who was the stinky one.

However, I think that daily showering/bathing is mostly a social issue, and not a health issue. So, while a guy might not smell very nice if he doesn't clean himself often enough, he's not necessarily going to do himself any harm (except in the dating arena). Europeans during the Middle Ages were filthy people, and I don't recall hordes of men dying from penile funk.

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Europeans during the Middle Ages were filthy people, and I don't recall hordes of men dying from penile funk.

[tennisdude23]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Europeans during the Middle Ages were filthy people, and I don't recall hordes of men dying from penile funk.

Ditto, this is precisely why the hygiene argument is baseless. Most Europeans in the Middle Ages died because of TB, dypheria, poor nutrition, the Plague, and alcohol related issues (the water was so polluted, they could only drink alcoholic beverages). Foreskin infections, though, never made to the top of that list. And by the way, a lot of teen guys, guys in their 20s do shower regularly, at least by the time college comes around.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by tennisdude23

And by the way, a lot of teen guys, guys in their 20s do shower regularly, at least by the time college comes around.

One can only hope.

[Fi.]

This thread should really be stickied.

[glongley]

Originally Posted by Fi.

This thread should really be stickied.

Definitely a keeper; at least it should be kept bumped all the time.

Gillian

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Kylix

BnInTheOven--One other thing to do while deciding is to stop using the term "uncirced". You are not undoing anything when you leave your baby intact. You are leaving your baby as he was born--natural and perfectly intact.

yes!! I have started saying this, I said "uncirced" a few times and then told myself, no, thats not right, I'm not the weirdo for wanting to leave my kid whole!!

Plus when you say "intact" people say "what?" then you get to explain and hopefully but a bug in someones ear about circumcision!

[Claire and Boys]

totally agree about the "uncirced"!! I always like to say..you don't call a complete brain without any missing parts "unlobotomised" do you

[suprgrl]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

totally agree about the "uncirced"!! I always like to say..you don't call a complete brain without any missing parts "unlobotomised" do you

True.. it just sounds weird like:

unamputated

[crazyrunningmama]

Canada is doing a little better:

The Maternity Experiences Survey, conducted in 2006 by the Public Health Agency of Canada, found an average national newborn circumcision rate of 31.9%.

The rates ranged widely across the country, from zero in Newfoundland and Labrador to 44.3%, with the highest rates in Alberta, Ontario and P.E.I.

Go Newfies!!!

[Ms. Mom]

Thank you all for your patience while the thread was being reviewed. Several posts have been removed because they discussed religion. Please keep in mine the Guidelines for posting in the Case Against Circumcision forum.

The discussion of or reference to religion is outside of the scope of this forum. Any posts which bring any aspect of religion into the discussion are not appropriate and will be removed. Some discussions of this nature can be hosted in the Religious Studies forum which is a subforum of Spirituality, or in an existing tribal thread for the particular religious affiliation. We do maintain a list of websites in our Web Resources thread for further information on religious issues.

If your thread was removed, you will be contacted shortly and given the opportunity to edit or re-post to the thread. Feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.

BnInTheOvn, best wishes to you on your upcoming birth

[Fi.]

The Maternity Experiences Survey, conducted in 2006 by the Public Health Agency of Canada, found an average national newborn circumcision rate of 31.9%.

I thought it was found to nationally be 10% last year? Or are they including non-routine circumcisions as well?

Jacque Savageau - Thank you for cleaning up and returning the thread - I think this is a wonderful resource that honestly either deserves a lot of bumping or a sticky. There's so much good info in here.

[MyBoysBlue]

http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/s...hi-2005-e.html

This is what I found that says Canada's rates are down to 9.2 in 2005.

I don't know why the discrepancy.

[momongeon]

Why would you sacrifice things like cold cuts, smoking, meds, or even alcohol to create this beautiful being and then cut part of him off. You work hard to make sure he is as healthy as possible. What makes you think that you need to remove a functional part of your son's body. I love that you are questioning this ridiculous procedure b/c being informed is the least we can do for our children. The more you know the worse it is. Trust me I see circs or the effects of circs just about everyday and I hate them more every time I go to work. I hate nothing more than when parents are afraid of taking pictures b/c the flash may hurt their eyes but then circ them hrs later or they do everything to stay intervention free during labor for the baby's sake and then intervene by CUTTING OFF a part of their son. It seem hypocritical if you ask me.

Now that that is out on the table I have not read through all of the thread but I am so sure you got all the info you need from this sub-forum. Think of our bodies as machines that will out live any man made machine. Everything has a function even the things we CAN live with out. The appendix which everyone seems to think has no value in the human body has been found to have some immunity significance. It has been shown to repair the flora in the gut following a bout of diarrhea. It is thought to help support the immune system of the fetus. This is not to say that people with out an appendix are $#!+ out of luck (pardon the pun) b/c the appendix is not necessary to fulfill those functions.

If the foreskin was SO INSIGNIFICANT then why has it not evolve out of the human anatomy? B/c it IS SIGNIFICANT. It has protective factors as well as having 20,000 erogenous nerve endings. When circumcising your child you are taking those nerve endings along with stripping off 50% of the shaft tissue. The glans, which is supposed to be moist to help lubricate the vagina during intercourse, becomes dried and calloused and causes friction and micro abrasions along the wall of the vagina.

The other point I will make is that you can NEVER get back what you have removed. They can go through a restoration process which from my understanding is far worse than having to be circ'd as an adult but they will never have the full benefits that being left intact can offer. You CAN NOT determine what your child will feel about this someday. He could feel resentment either way but I will NOT feel guilty about leaving the decision to him b/c as I said before you can't get it back and he has the power to make it the way HE wants it to be.

I will get off my soap box now. Thanks for listening and GL with your decision. I am sorry that I could not be unbiased.