HELP we've created a monster!!!! - Page 2

[Violet2]

Has she learned to self-soothe? Does she have a lovey?

There was a lot in your post that resonated with me and ime I was over-functioning, trying to be the end all and be all and DD did not learn to self-soothe. DD actually did better if I let her manage her sleep process instead of fighting to hold her and rock her to sleep. She needed us to back off and let her figure it out.

So we did. We supported her when she needed it, but didn't rush in to try and 'fix' everything.

I am reading The Emotional Life of Toddlers and have found it helpful--it's out of print but 2nd hand copies can be found cheaply. It talks alot about the psychosocial development of the second year. The push-pull of independence. The anxiety that creates etc...

V

[mellowjello]

I have heard of that book... I will check it out. The one I have is How to Give Your Baby an Emotional Headstart by Linda Acredolo. It has alot of psychosocial development, attachment theory, etc.

Yes, she finally has become attached to a lovey. That took a loooong time. She is not a good self soother when she's got anything to deal with (tired, teething, etc.) but when she's rested she is really very chill now. Depending on the situation, I sometimes let her throw a little tantrum and then it will be over and she's fine, but if I sense it's just going to escalate and make things worse for her, I intervene and soothe, BF, distract, etc.

It is really hard for me to assess if I am over-functioning. DH definitely thinks that is true. One thing you read will say that you need to let them work things out, cry a little, etc., and the next thing you read will say children are secure when their needs are met. For her, it has always been hard to say what is a need. For example, almost every single health care provider said she does not need to eat and night and I should wean at night (for my own health and sanity, mostly). My instinct was telling me she needed it, even at 15 months. Then, fast forward, we take her off the Nexium and suddenly asks to BF a fraction of what she did before, though she still is nightwaking 2-3 times. (Also she was pooping a ton, mostly coming out looking the same way it came in. The Nexium prevents secretion of stomach acid. Although this was neccessary for awhile, it started to prevent her from being able to digest her food, so I really do think she was hungry. She would sign for food in the middle of the night and seem soooo distressed. Now she's pooping normally.) So now I think we're in a better position if we decide to wean. And she is less anxious off the meds, so everything is much less traumatic.

[BellaClaudia]

She totally sounds like my DD.
I was on te edge of physycal exhostion and mental depression..
now she is 3.5 we pulled it through but it was really though.

she had defenetely acid reflux although we decided not to take any meds for them as from what we research they were as helful as harming..
so we took it alla naturell..

We had her head elevated but not too drastically...
she would sleep always in our bedroom but never in our bed
as I was afraid of SIDS - terrified..

She would wake up millions times a night for feeding or just to sleep on me as I would hold her in my arms till she was 2 and nurse in my armchair in the bedroom.


LOOKING BACK here is what I think:

* We should have been cosleeping. I think that as much as she had reflux it could have been a nervous reaction to sleeping away from us. It might work for some people and babies but she was super smart, super sensitive and very aware of surroundings from the start. That made her high needs and my failure to providing cosleeping probably made it worse.

* I was promoting attachment parenting from day one. Now I can't tell if my constant carrying and holding her and constantly giving her attantion was good thing or bad thing in terms if this contributed to her end result..
I just went by my instinct, it was strong, she cried I had to act and I would never do it any other way. I just had to be there for her and have her always by me. Did it influence her behavior? I don't know and I am not sure but from what other parents sometimes experience wihtout being attached like me.. not necessarely..

* she was just very sensitive and she had reflux and she would be afraid of many things starting with not seeing me for a minute so I was just providing her comfort. We never did CIO but we did stupid thing as my husband would push her in a stroller in a dark livingroom to make her go to sleep. I was upstairs trying to get some sleep.. end result - her loosing trust to us, being panickly afraid of darks and more attachment in result.

* we live on busy street, she would wake up for every passing car. no ways around it. So I woudl be really exhosted as nursing back to sleep would be only way for both of us getting some sleep.

* I think that I might go wrong listenning to many experts suggesting that nursed babies do not need to be burped. I did not burp her ever as thinkint htis is right. I don't know.. I will never. Now we still don't burp her but at 3.5 it is not issue anymore and ther is no reflux left anyways..

* To burping or not to burping should be revisited in case by case I think and I think now that if I could go back in time I would try an see if it helped. But the right way!
I know enough about idiotic way sof burping babies by patting them on the back that leads to reflux alone.. or promotes drooling of milk..
NO THAT IS WRONG>. alll you do is gently rub the back from the mid back area up on and on and on.. patting is just plain wrong.. let alone hard and noisy that can damage lungs and other organs.. you see some young mother doing it it somtimes and it is hair rising.

* I also think today that I should do better with her crib positioning and softens of the matrass in the first place. Initially the crib was close to electircal outlet so I think t here might have been some magnetic field that some sensitive babies respond to badly. and it is bad for all.

* airconditioning and heating.. crib was a bit on the way of the flow..
and that I did not realized because I could not fit in the crib..

I was at my rops ends and we were totally walking zombies..
what finally helped us was few things that I find really changed the way she sleeps.. she started sleeping more comfortably, relaxed and I never required her to sleep through the night. I was really happpy to see her waking up 5 times a night for nursing then less then less.. but it was okay to see that she needed to nurse but it was traumatic to nurse just every few minutes as she was waking up

so here is my list of things that changed things:

* CAREFUL POSITIONING OF THE CRIB AWAY FROM OUTLETS AND DRAFTS AND DOORS

AT THE AGE OF 2 (AND FOR SAFETY REASONS i WOULD NOT DO IT EARLIER):

*WE OPENED THE FRONT WALL OF THE CRIB, PUT CRIB TO MY SIDE OF THE BED AND LEVELED THE BOTTOM OF THE CRIB BY ADDING ONE CRIB MATRASS.. SHE HAD FREE ACCESS TO ME AND ME TO HER.. THAT MADE MAAAAAAAAJOR CHANGE IN HER SLEEPING PATTERN AS SHE WOULD SLEEP MORE PACEFULLY. AT FIRST SHE WOULD NOT WAKE UP ANY LESS JUST TO MAKE SURE SHE HAD ME RALLY CLOSE AND i WAS NOT GOING ANYWHERE..
BUT GRADUALLY IN COUPLE OF WEEKS SHE JUST SO MUCH LESS WAS WAKING UP

* LIGHT IN THE BEDROOM.. WE ALWAYS KEEP BATHROOM LIGHT ON TO LIT THE BEDRROM A BIT SO SHE NEVER SLEEPS IN TOTAL DARKNESS. DOOR IS CRACKED OPEN SHE CAN SEE ME AS SHE OPENS HER EYES TO KNOW WHERE SHE IS. THAT IS HUGE HELP TO RELAX HER

* MAKING SURE SHE EATS BEFORE GOING TO BED. WE DO SOME RICE CERIAL OR WAFFEL OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE TO MAKE SURE THAT SHE IS NOT HUNGRY AND WE END FEEDING 1 HOUR OR 30 MINUTES BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP OR RIGHT BEFORE.

* SIPPY CUP FULL OF WATER IS ON STANDBY AND i OFFER IT TO HER EVERY NIGHT FEEDING AND SHE USUALLY FIRST NURSES AND THEN ASKS FOR IT..
AS IN "AND NOW SIPPY CUP". AS I LET HER TO SATTISFY HER THIRST UNCONDITIONALLY AS I FOUND THAT NURSING IS MORE FOR EATING AND SIPPY FOR THAT. SO THAT DID WONDERS TOO. SHE IS FREE ACCESS TO IT AND CAN HAVE AS MUCH AS SHE WANTS. I CAN'T IMAGINE LIMITING IT AS i DRINK AT NIGHT AND SO I UNDERSTAND THE NEED.

* DRESSING UP FOR NIGHT IS IMPORTANT. TOO LITTLE AND SHE WAKES UP BEING COLD, TOO MUCH SHE IS SWEATY AND WAKES UP SCRATCHING. SO SHE HATED COVERS TOO TIL LSHE WAS LIKE 2.5.. I HAD TO PLAY WITH ROOM TEMPERATURE.. I BOUGHT A REMOTE CONTROL HOME THERMOSTAT SO IT WAS ALWAYS IN OUR BEDROOM OR WHERE BABY WAS AS OPPOSED TO SMACKED ON THE WALL IN LIVING ROOM. THAT LET US TO BE TOTALLY IN CONTROL FOR BEDROOM TEMPERATURES. I DRESSED HER UP TO MAKE SURE SHE IS COMFORTABLE. NEVER IN FLEECE, ALWAYS IN COTTON. FLEECE MAKES THEM OVERHEAT ON THE SPOT. AND IT IS JUST BAD CHOICE HELTHWISE AS IT IS PLASTIC FIBER. SO... IF SHE SLEEPS ON THE BACK SHE IS WARM AND COMFY, IF SHE SLEEPS ON THE SIDE IN A FETAL POSITION SHE IS USUALLY COLD. IF NER NECK IS SWEATY THEN SHE IS TOO HOT..

* DRINKING - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BESPHENOL FREE (BPA FREE) SIPPY CUPS AND PLATES AND EVERYTHING. THIS ALONE IS VERY BAD FOR CHILDREN AS IT IMITATES HORMONES AND MAKES THEM SUPER SENSITIVE.

* ELIMINATE FOOD WITH COLORING ENTIRELY. LIMIT OR ELIMINATE FOOD WITH GLUTEN ESPECIALLY PASTAS AND BREAD. THE SME ISSUE .. GLUTEN IMITATES HORMONES AND IN SENSITIVE BABIES IS IT JUST MAKING THEM MORE SENSITIVE.

* PROVIDE TONS OF TOYS FOR BITING - I USE TOP OF THE BPA FREE SIPPY CUP..

* SHE IS TEETHING ALL THE TIME AND SHE WILL BE TILL 4 YEAR OLD, THAT MAKES IT WORSE.. YOU PROBABLY SEE PHASES AS SHE IS BETTER AND WORSE AND IT COMES AND GOES.. AND WHEN SHE WAKES UP MORE AND IS MORE CRANKY AND BITING AND RESTLESS SHE IS IN TEETHING PHASE EVEN IF NO SYMPTOMS ARE VISIBLE YET.. FIRST GOES SLEEP, THEN EATING, AND DRINKING AND THEN SHE WILL DROOLL AND THEN SHE BITES LIKE CRAZY ON ANYTHING SHE CAN... THAT LAST FEW WEEKS TILL STARTS DECLINING.. AND THERE WE GO AGAIN AFTERA WEEK OR SO PEACE.. IT IS CRAZY AND VICIOUS CIRCLE.. THEN AT TWO MOLLARS KICKS IN SO THE ENTIRE YEAR IS BAD.

* WE DID NOT GIVE ANY TEETHING TABLETS. THEY DO CONTAIN BELLADONNA. IT IS A POISON. THE ANCIENT USED THAT TO KILL PEOPLE.. LIKE IN ANCIENT ROME. DO NOT GIVE ANYTIHING TO BABIES FOR TEETHING AS IT IS NOT SAFE. NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU. IT IS YOUR BABY AND IT IS NOT OKAY TO GIVE LITTLE POISON TO HER.

CLOSING:

Hang in there.. you will make it. My husband was also at the end of his wits and for them it is tough because they really think it should be more simple. I felt responsible for everything because i was calling all shots and he was about to have enough of it and whenever he talked me into something it turned out against us as that whole pusing baby in stroller business...

it is hard but it will be better. you will see.. there will be other challenges but at 3 any baby sleeps better guarnateed! so you will make it.. just hang bit more longer.

I had it as bad as you.. I also was bitten to blood all over my body by my dd and she would bit my niples as nursed so i really had it bad

she is super intellingent and smart and your typical nursling and I would never have it different way if that was price to pay.

you can always Private message me if you need any moral support :-)

hugs and more hugs

bella

[mellowjello]

Wow, thanks Bella, for all of that. I am going to respond to some of what you wrote, in hopes that if someone comes across this thread, it might help in some way.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

She totally sounds like my DD.
I was on te edge of physycal exhostion and mental depression..

Yes. What I always thought of was how in my EMT training they taught about the Good Samaritan Law. If you come across someone in cardiac arrest that needs CPR, if you begin CPR on them then you are obligated to continue until the person, heaven forbid, dies, or until more qualified help takes over. Otherwise you can bu sued (makes sense to me, have no problem with that.) The one exception to this? I forget the exact wording but if you are physically and/or emotionally unable to continue. It doesn't feel like an exaggeration to me to say that I was that desperately incapacitated. The heart wrenchingness of letting her cry that night for hours almost made me explode. I was weak with fatigue, so dizzy that I would careen around the room and smacked into the furniture. She had to be danced vigorously or she screamed. I tried to protect her as much as I could with my body. Others can judge, that's fine. Would I have avoided this if there was any way I could? Of course. Am I p!ssed off at DH and still carry anger about it because he refused to go in? Definitely.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

she had defenetely acid reflux although we decided not to take any meds for them as from what we research they were as helful as harming..
so we took it alla naturell..

I wonder about this. I constantly asked that question throughout her being on the meds. I don't regret starting her on them, since her reflux was so pronounced and on the meds was the only way she could sleep, but I do wish we had weaned down sooner... getting off the Nexium onto Zantac... reducing doses. Such a guessing game because playing with the meds up and down can worsen the problem.

Same with us about needing to sleep elevated, quite drastically (even on the meds) and needing to be held. Sometimes it seemed like it was just about being vertical and sometimes just being held, even if not upright, was enough.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

We should have been cosleeping.

I was against this because of what I read about "sleep habits" and also SIDS. I still think there is no way it would have worked because for so long she had to be held exactly vertical in order to sleep (even lying on my chest in a rocking chair she would scream and cry). But maybe if we had done the craniosacral sooner.... if I had known about oversupply/overactive letdown, maybe if I had gotten off dairy and started probiotics sooner... maybe if I had known about the candida and started treatment sooner, seen an ND sooner, had worn her from the start... maybe it could have worked. I would have tried an Arm's reach cosleeper, sounds like you rigged up something basically the same.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

Now I can't tell if my constant carrying and holding her and constantly giving her attantion was good thing or bad thing in terms if this contributed to her end result..

My hunch is this was a good thing, you were addressing a need that if not addressed would have worsened.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I was upstairs trying to get some sleep.. end result - her loosing trust to us, being panickly afraid of darks and more attachment in result.

I think about things I did, too, that feel like mistakes. There were times DH would take her away from me and she would be so anxious and cry but I turned around and went to sleep. Because I needed it so badly and also because I felt that if I "gave in" to her DH would be angry and we would fight and I was so so so so so so so tired. Hugs to you. We did the best we could.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I know enough about idiotic way sof burping babies by patting them on the back that leads to reflux alone.. or promotes drooling of milk..
NO THAT IS WRONG>. alll you do is gently rub the back from the mid back area up on and on and on.. patting is just plain wrong..

This is interesting. I do think burping was key for us, especially because she was drinking so fast due to my overactive letdown. But in general I've heard burping can help. We tried that method you describe, with one finger on one side of the spine and thumb on the other, gently pressing upward, and never got anything. We supported her neck and head and walked around, bouncing, thumps on the floor, and this was the only way she would burp and also the only way to calm her. It may have been more damaging than helpful in reality, I don't know.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I HAD TO PLAY WITH ROOM TEMPERATURE.. I BOUGHT A REMOTE CONTROL HOME THERMOSTAT SO IT WAS ALWAYS IN OUR BEDROOM OR WHERE BABY WAS AS OPPOSED TO SMACKED ON THE WALL IN LIVING ROOM. THAT LET US TO BE TOTALLY IN CONTROL FOR BEDROOM TEMPERATURES. I DRESSED HER UP TO MAKE SURE SHE IS COMFORTABLE. NEVER IN FLEECE, ALWAYS IN COTTON. FLEECE MAKES THEM OVERHEAT ON THE SPOT.

We had a meat thermometer in her room so I could monitor the temp and adjust accordingly. We had a horrible thermostat and the house was impossible to regulate. She was really hard to keep just right, I blamed it on the house. She sweated at night, so I thought too hot, but then when I put more on her would sleep better. I then learned night sweats can be caused by sleep apnea, which could have been caused by her congestion, which was caused by her reflux. ??? This went on for awhile. Same conclusion regarding synthetic materials, BAD BAD BAD, so hard for them to temp regulate. She now sleeps in a sleep sack I made out of an old down comforter, and dressed in cotton or wool only. Still seems hard to for her to regulate her body temp, such a minor minor change can make her too cold or too hot, at last visit my ND thought possibly a thyroid condition in me is responsible so we are going to look into that. Also she has discoordination, clumsiness, that comes and goes, sometimes walking like a drunk person. And I've had this too.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BESPHENOL FREE (BPA FREE) SIPPY CUPS AND PLATES AND EVERYTHING.

We do this too, along with trying to minimize plastic toys and Tylenol and Motrin and no additives, no dairy, no gluten, no sugar, and as much as possible organic, etc. But I've felt like I have to keep some of the things that are gifts even if I don't want her to have them. Hard to know if I'm going overboard or not.

She has never accepted a paci or teether, only my boobs which are so tired out. I will look more into the Hylands. She has been refusing it and I don't know if it's helping anymore.

I am sad right now because talking about baby #2 and DH just doesn't think he can do it. I need to adjust my attitude and just be thankful for what we have. It might be a blessing to not be pregnant and nursing again as my body needs to recover.

[jillmamma]

I am so sorry you have had such a rough time. I bet it is tough to keep going like that without much of a break.

DS was kind of like that as an infant...only mom was his comfort object, and he would have been latched on almost 24/7 if I let him. He did a lot of napping on my lap on the boppy pillow while mommy read, watched tv or got on the computer just because I knew he would stay asleep that way and not in his crib. He hated the crib, and never did sleep well in it, so we moved him to a mattress on the floor at about 16 months.

One thing that sticks out to me about what you describe is your DD's sensitivity to all stimuli around her. I wonder if she has some sensory issues like DS has. He gets easily overwhelmed by crowded/noisy areas, too little or too much touch, really got bothered by teething, and used to have aversions to certain textures in food or clothing. A great book to read to see if your DD fits this description is The Out of Sync Child. Lots of moms in the Special Needs forum have lots of experience with this. To help with a lot of his sensory issues and some developmental delays in gross and fine motor skills, DS has been receiving occupational therapy for the past year, and things have improved a LOT with him. As far as sleeping goes, for us, once those #$@#$@ eye canine teeth came in, his nighttime sleep got WAY WAY better, and he started sleeping all night right at about age 2. He is still sensitive about things, but is developing better skills for coping with it as he grows and has grown into a really cool kid who is fun to be around and do things with and asks the darndest questions now at age 6. And we did go on to have a second one (got pg when he was 2) and she is totally different, way better sleeper, still sensitive emotionally, but it is cool to see them together. Good luck to you and there IS hope of someday actually getting to sleep ALL night till morning!

[spottiew]

we had teething sleep troubles from the beginning to age 2. sleep still is not easy, all you can do is help as best you can. if you find something that does work, do it, and if not, sometimes sleep doesn't happen and the kid does seem to suffer it does pass, tho- you just get through it, and remember that your kid is unique and may not sleep or act like anyone but themselves. i recommend Raising your spirited child- not the end part about 'doing' things, just the part at the beginning 'you are not alone', you realize there is a NAME for your child's tempermant, so you are not crazy i also find a little sympathy goes a long way- they are not trying to annoy you!

[limabean]

You've gotten lots of good advice, but I couldn't read and not offer a and just say that you sound like a wonderful mama.

[Lisa1970]

I think you should take her to the neurologist. It sounds like she could have a sleep disorder. It also just might be something that takes time to get through. Where does she sleep? Maybe if she slept with you, you could just move her to her own bed/crib when you and your dh want to be "happy" together. Keep her bed in your room so you can easily move her.

Just remember, this time will pass. She will grow out of sleeping with you.

[Lisa1970]

Oh..and don't forget white noise. It helps greatly with getting children to sleep and keeping them there. Run a fan on low in her room...but not blowing on her. Turn it away from her. It is the noise, not the wind you are going for.