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Revisiting Home birth again - Page 2

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlein26 View Post
And sorry you view anecdotes as information.
As a midwifery apprentice, I'd be more than happy to review any links posted. Feel free to share where you gathered your "information". I'm sure that all the expectant twin mothers here on MDC who are trying to make informed decisions not swayed by the medical model of birth would be more than happy as well.
post #22 of 81
Here is a great link: http://www.suite101.com/blog/brendap...ech_first_twin

and it is too bad that hospitals have to practice medicine that is based on being able to cover their you know whats instead of it being based on what is safest for mothers and babies.

I knew-- and it got much stronger towards the end of my pregnancy-- that the safest place for my babies was to be born at home with 3 midwives who were highly trained in breech and twin/triplet births. Unfortunately, a hospital cannot offer me the same skilled training.

I think you have made the right decision for yourself and your babies
post #23 of 81
I must admit, I don't trust my instinct. I suppose if something is going wrong, I would trust it. But I don't trust my instinct to know everything is going right. That's why I'm happily taking advantage of the best medical care I can find.
Deanna, don't get me wrong on the instinct thing , it's not that I knew "for sure" the whole pregnancy that I would have a home birth. I knew that my pregnancy was going great, and yet I loved it when a medical test only confirmed it, and the doctors had to admit it as well. I was always jealous of women for whom homebirth was just so natural. I was scared. I was scared of what people would say if I did have to transfer, which I have to tell you, after my first was born so peacefully, and I waited 3 HOURS for Sierra, I was feeling completely ok with a hospital transfer if need be, b/c I had been able to labor and birth so peacefully.
Some people gather information and inspiration to help guide them in their choice. Some gather their greatest fears. I opt for information and inspiration, and, of course, intuition. I don't know if you always know that you are tapped into it. Just start talking to your babies. I told mine to give me a sign if I needed to go to the hospital. Never got one, and I can't tell you just how firmly planted my feet felt on the ground the morning of the birth. You will get signs. Keep seeking information, it will help quell the fear mongering
post #24 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaeliz View Post
[I]Just start talking to your babies. I told mine to give me a sign if I needed to go to the hospital. Never got one, and I can't tell you just how firmly planted my feet felt on the ground the morning of the birth. You will get signs. Keep seeking information, it will help quell the fear mongering
Thank you! I will. I'm not going to hold hard and fast to any particular birth plan. But at this point, Home birth is at the top of the list. I hope it gets to stay there, but I will gladly head to the excellent hospital we have chosen as a back up! No pride involved here. Just trying to do what is best for my babies. And a home birth is best if all is well and healthy with them.

Thanks Again!
post #25 of 81
There are so many factors to consider but it all boils down to your comfort level. The biggest concern with a twin homebirth is what happens after the first baby is out. That's when things can get complicated. For me, I'm way more terrified of a hospital birth (especially with twins) than a homebirth. It is so hard to have a natural hospital birth with twins. I was completely comfortable planning a homebirth for both sets of my (MC) twins. And the first set was a successful HBAC and the second was an emergency cesarean. I still wouldn't change a thing about my plans for any of my births though. You need to decide what you feel best choosing and go with it. When choosing a homebirth a lot more responsibility is on you so you have to be ok with that too.

Choosing a hospital birth does not guarantee a good outcome, just as choosing a homebirth does not either.
post #26 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carycaj View Post
That is an interesting article! Thanks for sharing. I also heard on the radio this morning something about a higher rate of asthma for children who were born via c-section. I'm going to surf the internet to find the study.
post #27 of 81
I think that most likely you'll be able to see any trouble coming from a mile away. I did not have the unassisted homebirth I hoped for with my twins but I wouldn't worry about the "risks". You are absolutely right about most of the risks being linked with just being in a hospital. A breech breech presentation isn't really a big deal either, esp with an experienced midwife on hand. My twins were Breech/vertex and they locked. Twin A never decended so I never dilated despite being in hard labor for 8 hours (contrax every 2 min for a min each). Eventually I ended up with pre-e at the very end and I went to the hospital for a section. Not all twins are a successful homebirth, but there's not reason to assume yours won't be.


For the non twin anti homebirthers in this thread. I'm sorry for your losses and/or reasons for hating homebirth, but you'll have to excuse if we make our own decisions about this as we're the ones with twins and know the risks more then anyone else. When everyone give the "what if" line it get a little old. I have a friend who was murdered by induction days after my twins were born. Birth carries it's risk regardless of where you do it, Some of us just feel the risk is less at home.
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleheather79 View Post
I still wouldn't change a thing about my plans for any of my births though. You need to decide what you feel best choosing and go with it. When choosing a homebirth a lot more responsibility is on you so you have to be ok with that too.

Choosing a hospital birth does not guarantee a good outcome, just as choosing a homebirth does not either.




Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrebloom View Post
I have a friend who was murdered by induction days after my twins were born.
:
post #29 of 81
I agree - it's a very personal decision. For me it boiled down to what I already knew - birth is safest when you're with someone who isn't afraid of it and knows how to deal with *true* complications (not those caused by the care provider) - and for me that meant giving birth at home with a trusted mw who trusted in me and my ability to give birth safely and to know when to ask for help. Home is safest in most cases. I wasn't going to put myself and my babies in a known hazard situation by submitting to hospital protocols and fear/litigious-based practice.

I think too often people think that by giving birth in a hospital they're somehow exempt from responsibility if something goes wrong (and I'm not saying this about you - just something I've noticed in general). You've stressed that what's hanging you up on choosing home is the slim chance of something going wrong. I think you need to really think about what exactly could go wrong and which situations could *not* be handled in time or adequately by a good mw (excellent mw interview questions). Then compare that to how those situations would be handled in the hospital (ask your OB) in addition to the number of complications you'll possibly face in addition to those simply by being managed in the hospital.
post #30 of 81
For what it's worth, my mom had no idea that my heartrate was crashing. She never had any inkling that I was getting into serious trouble. There were never any outward signs of a problem. She had no drugs or medications, and was healthy for her entire pregnancy. But her OB heard my heartrate on the stethoscope and called for a C-section. My apgar scores were very low, but I'm fine today. My mom was only at six centimeters, so if she was at home, I wouldn't be here today.

I'm tired of the idea that intuition protects someone from bad things happening. The statistics show that bad things are happening to someone, and they usually have no special knowledge that it's about to happen. I'm glad for everyone who's births went exactly as they wished them to. But it's easy to assume that it was some special thing that they did that protected them from complications. That's not always the case. Ask some of the homebirthing mamas here on MDC whether they had a special intuition before their complications happened, or whether their bad thoughts brought them on.

"My intuition told me I'd be fine and I was" comes very close to blaming those who had misfortune for their problems. It's upsetting to me to read, and it must be much more upsetting for mamas who have had problems.
post #31 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Girl View Post
For what it's worth, my mom had no idea that my heartrate was crashing. She never had any inkling that I was getting into serious trouble. There were never any outward signs of a problem. She had no drugs or medications, and was healthy for her entire pregnancy. But her OB heard my heartrate on the stethoscope and called for a C-section. My apgar scores were very low, but I'm fine today. My mom was only at six centimeters, so if she was at home, I wouldn't be here today.
Thats why I intend to have my regular OB care through my pregnancy and in addition have a competent midwife attend my labor and delivery. A midwife would be able to detect any problems during labor the exact same as an OB in a hospital

Quote:
I'm tired of the idea that intuition protects someone from bad things happening. The statistics show that bad things are happening to someone, and they usually have no special knowledge that it's about to happen.
I actually agree with you on this. That's why I'm not trusting my instinct, I'm trusting fact and good medical care. Fact is, in the hospital I will be forced to comply with procedures that greatly increase my chances of having complications. Fact two, if I have any true complications, I can move to a hospital where they can do their job.

I think this way I have things covered.

Now my only concern is finding a good midwife. The one I was supposed to meet with today was at a birth so she missed our appointment. I completely understand that, but she didn't change her answer machine to say that her appointments were canceled like she said she does if she has to leave. So we drove the 35 mins and got a baby sitter for our 2yo, etc. Major bummer. DH only has one day a week off right now. So I'm a tad down about things. She called while I was napping this afternoon and talked to DH told him she was at a birth. She's supposed to call back later. I think she's totally the most qualified in our area, I hope we can work this out!
post #32 of 81
The difference between the OB hearing my decelerating heart rate and your MW hearing that heart rate is that the OB could be carrying out the incision to get me out in under five minutes, which he did.

Regardless, I think you are aware of the dangers of relying on "intuition" over facts and reason. I wasn't responding to you as much as to the many, many posters on this board who feel that because their outcomes were good, everyone should do exactly as they do or else they're "sheeple" who won't "get educated."

I wish you the very best with your deeply wanted and hoped-for twins.
post #33 of 81
Regardless, I think you are aware of the dangers of relying on "intuition" over facts and reason. I wasn't responding to you as much as to the many, many posters on this board who feel that because their outcomes were good, everyone should do exactly as they do or else they're "sheeple" who won't "get educated." -- Bird Girl
Only you will know, and I send blessings your way for whatever your path will be. --Mamaeliz

That's my quote, and I'm stickin' to it I will be here on the boards listening and supporting you Deanna, no matter which route you take.

"My intuition told me I'd be fine and I was" comes very close to blaming those who had misfortune for their problems--bird Girl
Yikes! That sounds really scary to me. That is not my intention for sharing a supportive story and experience. It sounds like we all hold different world views and life philosophies here, and I would never blame a mama for a birth that did not happen as planned. I personally am a big believer in intuition, and I always will be.
post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Girl View Post
The difference between the OB hearing my decelerating heart rate and your MW hearing that heart rate is that the OB could be carrying out the incision to get me out in under five minutes, which he did.
Do you carry some "proof" with you that you would have died in 10 minutes? In 15? In 30? Or is that just what your mother's OB said or your assumption? Those broad, sweeping, "I would have DIED" statements irk me just as much as your peeve on intuition.

Listen, I am a huge believer in intuition. It's saved my butt a time or three. But I also choose to have a team of 5 midwives at my birth and they also saved my butt. They used these things called "dopplers" and listened to my babies heart beats every 5 minutes or so. They've been trained for years on how to interrupt that data. I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested doing otherwise. There are a few women on this forum who HAVE made a different choice but this thread is Deanna's so maybe you should take your fight and your angst to a different thread/board?

Quote:
I wasn't responding to you as much as to the many, many posters on this board who feel that because their outcomes were good, everyone should do exactly as they do or else they're "sheeple" who won't "get educated."
I haven't seen anyone say that in this thread. Am I missing it?
post #35 of 81
I saw this the other day, and only now have a few minutes to respond.

I think the key is going into whatever you're doing eyes wide open, and in charge of all the information. Whether you choose a home birth or a hospital birth, you need to be prepared for what you are entering.

With regard to which is better suited to you, much of that is going to depend on your particular situation. First, your pregnancy. Are your twins mono/di, di/di? Is baby A head down (as you approach the final stretch)? Have you had any other complications with the pregnancy? I think a lot of people who don't know anything at all about twins assume all twins are "high risk," and equally so. The fact of the matter is that just as factors like type of incision, reason for primary, prior vaginal births, whether or not you're receiving certain interventions, etc., make VBACs run a HUGE range of risk from catastrophically risky to not risky at all, so too do these things about your particular twin pregnancy make twin vaginal birth run the gamut from higher risk (mo/mo, for example) to not very risky at all (di/di, both vertex, prior vaginal births, etc.). As a nullipara (I'm assuming), you aren't necessarily MORE risky, just a little more unknown, and I know plenty of nullis who have birthed their twins vaginally, at home, in hospitals, and birth centers, without any complications. Like them, you will have many factors that play into your decision of where to have your babies.

Another thing that will play into your decision-- your provider. How much experience does the provider you're considering have with VAGINAL twin birth? If all your provider has ever seen are scheduled cesareans for twins, they are less likely to manage your labor in preparation for a VAGINAL twin birth, as they will likely default to what they know. I was at a twin hospital birth last week where the doctor INSISTED that he's NEVER seen a baby B change position after baby A is out (breech to vertex, or vice versa), that he considers the risks of vaginal delivery of a breech baby B too high to accept, and that he felt an external version for a breech baby B would be unsuccessful if attempted, so he wouldn't even try. I know for a fact that baby Bs flip frequently after births as they have more room to move around, that external or internal versions of baby B are often incredibly successful because of that fact, and that the literature suggests that a vaginal TOL is warranted as long as baby A is vertex. Because the information he had was so far out from what I know to be true (I can read studies, too), I can only assume that he was not up to date on the research regarding twin birth, and that he's never seen many twin vaginal births. He ended up "allowing" the mother to push out her baby A as long as it was in the operating room, and then knocked her out under general to do a cesarean on baby B simply because of B's breech presentation, without attempting a breech "extraction" (much less a birth) or an external version. Moral of this story: make sure you know your provider has attended more than a few vaginal twin births.

This played greatly into my decision of where and with whom to have my babies, by the way. As evidenced by my story above, not many of the doctors in my area have attended many vaginal twin births, as it's so easy to scare most twin moms into unnecessary surgery when you play the "don't you love your baby enough?" card. The provider who attended my birth had attended dozens of vaginal twin births in hospitals before switching to a primarily homebirth based practice, and had attended almost 20 vaginal twin homebirths since then. I knew my care was being handled by someone who knew the research about twin birth, respected mothers' wishes and did her best to carry them out safely, had a TON of education on birth and nursing (the medical and non medical sides), and knew and wasn't afraid of the tricks for managing vaginal delivery of baby B. A lot of the "I/my baby would have died if we had been at home" stories? My provider has likely attended births just like that at home, and managed them well with no complications to mother or baby.

There are providers like that out there, providers in both homes and hospitals. The trick is this-- in the hospital, that provider, no matter how good s/he is, is beholden to hospital policies that may or may not be in yours or your babies' best interests. At home, this is not the case, but surgery is not (as someone has pointed out) 5 minutes away. In many cases in which cesarean is overused or required only because of the negative effects of interventions, that might not be a bad thing. But rarely, it can be. You have to be aware of that, and it needs to play a big role in choosing a homebirth provider. Have you attended births (and approximately how many) where: it was twins? a cord prolapsed? Baby B was breech? Baby A was breech? a mother hemorrhaged? the babies "locked?" How did/would you handle these situations at home? For which ones would you consider transfer to the hospital our best option? Would you be able to transfer with me if we had to? What is your education relative to birth? Are you a: DEM? CPM? CNM? MD? EMT? Paramedic? Certified/licensed in your state? I know some of those sound silly, but you really want to know what kind of training they have. Do you have hospital backup to ensure continuity of care if we transfer? What kinds of medicines/herbs/supplies do you carry with you to home births? What's the earliest you would attend a twin birth at home? What extra people would you bring to my twin home birth? What if both babies needed resuscitation-- would you be prepared with extra oxygen tanks/masks?

The sad fact is that just as not all doctors are the same, not all midwives are, either. Some are incredibly competent with a somewhat medically-minded approach. Some are incredibly competent with an uber-crunchy holistic approach. And some, medical or otherwise, are simply incompetent and inexperienced. My heart goes out to those mothers who hired a midwife in good faith and with the best of intentions only to find out AFTER the fact that the midwife was not competent. Having no uniform licensing procedure yet (which some might argue is a good thing, but which The Big Push is trying to remedy) makes asking all of those questions of your homebirth provider REALLY important. Having no guarantees or protections against unnecessary interventions in the hospital makes them equally important to ask of an OB.

I like the idea of keeping OB shadow care during the pregnancy. I did not have that for my own twin pregnancy (for reasons that are more complex than this already-too-long post can address), and I lived in constant fear of going into labor early and ending up in the hands of whatever doctor happened to be on call. Maintaining OB shadow care, while it may be more stressful in some ways, will ensure that you have a reasonably secure backup plan if you go into labor early or need to transfer.

I also like the fact that you put intuition in (what I consider to be) its proper place-- as a part of the process, but not the process itself. That was how my pregnancy was-- I researched my butt off, took what I found out into prayer/meditation, and then made my decisions based upon many dimensions. I wasn't TOO analytical and nerdy, but I definitely wasn't any more woo-woo than was necessary!

Anyway, I'm sorry for writing the novel here, but this is an issue that is close to my heart. As a doula, I think all women deserve to be treated with respect during their births, whether they give birth at home or in a hospital. As a mother of twins, I think we should have those same rights.

Hope your path becomes more clear to you as it progresses.
post #36 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by christyc View Post
Are your twins mono/di, di/di?
Babies are di/di.
Quote:
Is baby A head down (as you approach the final stretch)?
At last week's u/s both babies were breech. I think baby presenting as "B" moved to transverse yesterday. Baby presenting as the first to "exit" still feels breech. But we have lots of time before we need to worry about this. I have monthly u/s checks.

Quote:
Have you had any other complications with the pregnancy?
Not a single complication thus far. Pregnancy has been going great. Babies are growing at the same rate, are healthy and right on track size wise (in fact, on parr with singletons at this gestational age).

Quote:
As a nullipara (I'm assuming), you aren't necessarily MORE risky, just a little more unknown, and I know plenty of nullis who have birthed their twins vaginally, at home, in hospitals, and birth centers, without any complications.
- Yep, first timer here!


Quote:
Another thing that will play into your decision-- your provider.
My OB who I like a lot and is extremely competent, but is semi-retired, she no longer does deliveries. But even if she did deliveries, the hospital has an on call system. You basically get whoever is on call when you deliver. The hospital has it's standard protocols for twins. Continual fetal monitoring and deliver in the OR. (among other things I'm sure). This is a university teaching hospital, that really gives great care if you have any problems. They have a level III NICU and are staffed very well. All great things to consider if me or my babies have any issues.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me who delivers the babies at the hospital. I think it might be best if I don't have a relationship with the on call doc. That way I won't feel pressured to follow their rules. If my regular OB put pressure on me to do XYZ procedure, it would be harder for me to hold strong. (now if I'm a transfer due to complications, I will probably follow hospital guide lines and OB rules to a "T".) Obviously, everything will depend on the circumstances.

Bottom line, I'm not holding hard to any one rule. I like my twice weekly OB care, I like my monthly u/s to confirm all is well. I like knowing that if a home birth doesn't work out, all is in line a the hospital. (My OB works out of this university). They have everything they need regarding my case history at their finger tips.

But should no complications arise, I might be able to avoid a lot of unnecessary procedures and protocols and have a safer birth for my babies. That's the ultimate goal.

Honestly, the way I look at it, I'm born ... I've had "My" birth experience. This isn't about me, this is about my babies and providing them with the best and safest birth.
post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post
Honestly, the way I look at it, I'm born ... I've had "My" birth experience. This isn't about me, this is about my babies and providing them with the best and safest birth.
YES! Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people are convinced that people homebirth for their own reasons, and without regard to the babies' safety, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
post #38 of 81
I don't know where all these NON MOMS OF TWINS are coming from, other than just to hang out on the PARENTS OF MULTIPLES board and try to scare you.

I'm with fyrebloom. Birth gives no guarantees. Choose what is best for your babies and you.
post #39 of 81
Yeah, Deanna! You're dealing with this all very reasonably, in the face of some challenges here and in meeting with your MW. Hope you get to meet with her soon and that it goes well.

For your light reading, here are a couple of my favorite links:

May have sent this to you before, about going full term. There are quite a few good twin HB stories in there, especially at the end. Including mine!

http://www.lookydaddy.com/weblog/200..._mos/comments/

This isn't necessarily about twin HB, but it's a good, clear study about how safe HM can be with a good MW:

http://www.thefarm.org/charities/mid.html

Keep cooking and have a good holiday!
post #40 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomaYula View Post
I don't know where all these NON MOMS OF TWINS are coming from, other than just to hang out on the PARENTS OF MULTIPLES board and try to scare you.

I'm with fyrebloom. Birth gives no guarantees. Choose what is best for your babies and you.
yeah, i thought this particular forum was for mothers of multiples....?
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