why do my kids treat me like garbage and their stern father with respect?

[sweetpea333]

I've always been gentle and never used timeouts with my children and always a calm voice, redirection and playful parenting. My husband on the other hand uses time outs and very stern voices and yells at times. My kids seem to act like im some kind of a joke, who doesn't get any respect and they dont listen to me at all (they are 3,4). They don't fear him but if their father asks them not to do something the say Okay daddy in a sweet voice and stop. If I ask they do what they want and really don't care what I have to say. It is so frustrating and I feel like the arguments me and my husband have had proved me to be wrong, because my kids have no respect for me at all. I feel like I really need to rethink this whole thing, I don't want to start yelling at them... but i'm at my wits end.

[sebandg'smama]

I question whether they fear him.

I say this because when I am angry and become firm (it's taken me 9 years, but I don't yell any more...thanks to great advice here on MDC) I seem to get immediate obedience. I believe it is because they are afraid of me. I am a powerful person to them and when I have shown my anger they are afraid.
I am working on my anger, so as not to have them fear me. I also am working on my expectation that they listen and comply immediately.

Your kids are still young, but I am a believer that if you are consistent they will respect you.

Without having some concrete examples of what you want them to stop, all I can say is that gentle discipline is the way to go!

Good luck to you...what a journey, eh?

[elmh23]

I don't think your kids fear him. It's not like he's beating them, ya know?

But I will say I think your husband is demanding respect so he gets it.

I demand respect from my children towards me, other people and things and as a result they give it (most of the time at least.)

[Calidris]

They are 3 and 4, and I am guessing, you are with them all day, and their dad only after work? They will obey him sooner because there are immediate, unpleasant consequences if they do not, as they get older though, he will have to up the threat level to have the same impact, while, hopefully, if you are consistent, they will begin to respond better to you.

Also, I think many SAHM talk about the fact that their kids listen better to the not at home parent, regardless of his parenting style.

[soposdedi]

Hmmmmm

Dd listens to me even though I am objectively with her more than dh is... but only when it is clear that I mean business (not yelling) and when her boundaries are definite and not to be trampled on. She respects me more when she has those clear boundaries, and it doesn't require negative, angry behavior on my part to provide those boundaries. This is what i have learned, but through a great deal of trial and error... it is NOT easy to be respectful and require respect, and not respond in frustration, this i know for sure.

[mama2mygirl]

I'm a SAHM and my dd repects me. I have very few reules but I explain them and follow through.

If your kids don't respect you then I think you should rethink your descpline style. I bet you can come up with something that works for all of you.

[soposdedi]

Hmmmmm

Dd listens to me even though I am objectively with her more than dh is... but only when it is clear that I mean business (not yelling) and when her boundaries are definite and not to be trampled on. She respects me more when she has those clear boundaries, and it doesn't require negative, angry behavior on my part to provide those boundaries. This is what i have learned, but through a great deal of trial and error... it is NOT easy to be respectful and require respect, and not respond in frustration, this i know for sure.

[KBinSATX]

Originally Posted by sebandg'smama

I question whether they fear him.

I say this because when I am angry and become firm (it's taken me 9 years, but I don't yell any more...thanks to great advice here on MDC) I seem to get immediate obedience. I believe it is because they are afraid of me. I am a powerful person to them and when I have shown my anger they are afraid.

Those were my thoughts as well...

[camprunner]

Originally Posted by mama2mygirl

I'm a SAHM and my dd repects me. I have very few reules but I explain them and follow through.

If your kids don't respect you then I think you should rethink your descpline style. I bet you can come up with something that works for all of you.

This our situation too. They don't respect their father because he's not consistant. He disciplines them out of anger, not love. They quote me to each other when they see the other doing something wrong "That's not nice"

[RoadToAvonlea]

I'm curious about the specific behavior that a 3 year old and 4 year old could demonstrate, beyond simply not listening, that would make an adult feel like "garbage".

I suspect your feeling like garbage has less to do with how the children treat you, and more to do with the fact that they listen to your husband better/faster/more consistently. The word "treat" implies intent, and unless they are modeling how other people treat you (your husband, perhaps?) in way that is more indicative of adult-like maliciousness, it's likely that your feelings are displaced disappointment that what you're doing doesn't seem to "work" as well as what your husband is doing.

If I were in this situation, there are several things I would look at.

1.) What is it that's making me feel like garbage, exactly...

- The interactions with the children specifically?

- Jealousness or a feeling of inadequacy that they're better behaved for someone else?

- Desperation that a parenting technique I believe in doesn't seem to "work"?

Etc.

2.) Are they learning this behavior from somewhere/someone specifically? TV programming? People in their life?

For me personally, I have to constantly remind myself of what is age appropriate when I feel myself getting frustrated with things like "defiance" and "disrespect". Often times, when I break the process of those feelings up, I realize the problem is with me and my perceptions, than with my child, her behavior, or her interactions with other people.

But from your description, it doesn't sound like your children are doing anything other than responding to your husband differently than they respond to you. Like I first said, unless there is more to the story, it doesn't sound like they're treating you like garbage.

[itsajenism]

Originally Posted by elmh23

I don't think your kids fear him. It's not like he's beating them, ya know?

But I will say I think your husband is demanding respect so he gets it.

I demand respect from my children towards me, other people and things and as a result they give it (most of the time at least.)

I wouldn't completely dismiss fear as being the reason, or part of it. I'm not saying the reason couldn't be something else, but yelling can definitely cause fear in children. At 27, yelling freaks me out.
Being respected by a child because someone is firm, consistent, and loving is far different than a child "minding" someone for fear of being yelled at.

My DS is a very sensitive [almost] 4 year old and yelling scares him as well. You can see it in his face when it happens, if it's not obvious by him crying immediately and saying that he's scared. He also tends to listen better immediately when someone who yells more often asks him to do/not to do something, and I believe it's because he's scared to get yelled at, not because he respects that person more.

[heartmama]

There is such a fine line to walk in this kind of discussion because so much of this is subjective. We have no way to know what motivates your children. Fear and respect can look the same on the surface.

On the other hand, sometimes parents, in an effort to be gentle, fail to trust their children can cope with firm expectations for respectful behavior.

Because so many people misuse this statement to justify power trips and punishments, it sounds cliche to say that children crave boundaries. But it is true in this sense--children crave knowledge, and disrespectfulness can be an attempt by children to find boundaries. Disrespectfulness can spring from curiosity, not a desire to be hurtful. Often a parent (most often a mother) won't make a strong stand regarding her own limits and personal boundaries. She will doubt, question, and second guess herself to avoid an action or word that might make her child unhappy. One day she will be firm, the next she will doubt herself and tolerate something that hurts her. But the end result is the child is equally frustrated. They can't seem to find the boundaries of this person, which can be irritating to the point of infuriating. I have seen kids as young as 3 express an attitude akin to contempt for a mother others would say was the kindest and most tolerant mother on earth. But little kids don't want to be endlessly tolerated and coddled--they are driven to understand, to know, and to be understood. They must be trusted to know the limits--and if they aren't trusted, they feel it. They really do. They know this parent never trusts them with her limits and boundaries. In the end they are rude because they simply don't have a clear idea of her at all. She is the shape of their own moods and actions--always bending to absorb them. Sometimes snapping in frustrating--but still only as a response to their behavior. They never run up against the clear outline of her--the absolutes and limits of her existence.

You don't have to be doling out punishments to be secure in those limits. It's an attitude and a mindset as much as it is a specific response to situations. In fact I think in order to be firm and gentle, it is imperitive that a person communicate personal limits in a way that is pro active and leads a child towards a greater awareness of the issue of personal limits and the importance of understanding and respecting them. Children learn by watching you, by knowing their own limits are respected, by talking to you about this issue, and by seeing that you will be firm and expect respect for yourself. It takes a 'macro' approach for this to be done in a way that is not punitive, but positive and effective. If you simply wait until you are frustrated, snap, and punish the rude child, children will fear rather than understand you.

[RoadToAvonlea]

I fear certain consequences that would follow my inappropriate behavior in our society. Motivation to do the "right" thing doesn't always have to come from an inherent belief that what we're doing is actually right. There are many rules and laws that I think suck, but I basically follow them because I fear the consequences.

The problem with many die hard GD philosophies is that some people believe everyone should do things for their own personal motivational reasons and because it should bring children joy and happiness to be considerate, or to share, or to put their own toys away, as opposed to them disliking, or "fearing" the consequence. Heck, some people are flat out against consequences!

But I think it does children a huge disservice to never let them experience the uncomfortable feelings of doing something that people don't approve of, or that is not appropriate (be it cultural - peeing in pubic, or personal - hitting someone).

While fear certainly is relative, it's not always bad.

[Daffodil]

My father was the stern parent in my family. And, yes, we were more likely to obey him without arguing - but obedience is a very different thing from real respect. We did NOT respect him more than we respected our mother. The older we got, the less we respected him, because we could see that he was often unfair, unkind, and had unreasonable expectations. We all ended up feeling his parenting was mostly more harmful than helpful. We didn't adopt his values, and none of us treat our own kids the way he treated us. (And he may well have been less stern than the OP's husband. He didn't give us time-outs, didn't usually even really yell - just got angry and talked sternly.)

However, I think there are ways you can treat your kids kindly and still get them to stop doing something when you want them to. I wouldn't recommend switching to your husband's parenting style, but if you really feel your kids don't listen to you at all, you might want to start doing something a bit differently.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I'll bet if you were a single mom, in the absence of a partner who yells, uses timeouts, and "is firm," you would get more respect from your children. Its very likely that your style is perfectly fine, but your style in the presence of a harsher style gets laughed at.

I'm dismayed by the posters who say you must demand respect from your children in order to get it, as though it was totally abnormal for respect to arise naturally in a loving, playful family that acknowledges each members' needs.

Both DH and I use a style similar to yours, and DD is both respected and respectful. I have absolutely no doubt that if one of us began using timeouts and a firm tone, that she would become anxious and immediately obey that parent. Whether or not we could see the fear, her obeying would be driven by uneasiness, anxiety, and discomfort, instead of a mutual desire for peace, harmony, and respect in the family. I also have no doubt DD would eventually come to see the parent who is less harsh as the parent she take out all the side effects of having to deal with the harsher parent.

Parenting doesn't have to be physically painful to be experienced as too harsh. I'll bet your children don't negotiate with your DH - your DH doesn't give any room for developing the skills of compromise and negotiation.

The harsher the firmer parent becomes, the worse the milder parent is treated by the children. Its not the harsher parent who is disrespected... its the milder one. Parents need to agree on a parenting style that they both can and will support so these dynamics don't happen and hurt the whole family.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by RoadToAvonlea

I fear certain consequences that would follow my inappropriate behavior in our society. Motivation to do the "right" thing doesn't always have to come from an inherent belief that what we're doing is actually right. There are many rules and laws that I think suck, but I basically follow them because I fear the consequences.

The problem with many die hard GD philosophies is that some people believe everyone should do things for their own personal motivational reasons and because it should bring children joy and happiness to be considerate, or to share, or to put their own toys away, as opposed to them disliking, or "fearing" the consequence. Heck, some people are flat out against consequences!

But I think it does children a huge disservice to never let them experience the uncomfortable feelings of doing something that people don't approve of, or that is not appropriate (be it cultural - peeing in pubic, or personal - hitting someone).

While fear certainly is relative, it's not always bad.

Well I have to disagree with you a little bit - I don't follow the law because I fear the consequences; I follow the law, even the bits I don't particularly like/agree with, because I believe in "the rule of law" - that is, it's better than "do what the king says because otherwise he'll order you hanged."

So I don't think fear is inherently required in order to establish order. There are skills kids need to learn, like delayed gratification and self-restraint and all that. I don't personally believe it's all unicorns and rainbows. But at the same time... it doesn't have to be fear, per se.

Guilt is what we feel when we don't follow our own conscience (and yes, it takes external forces to help shape our own). I've been surprised how my son has developed this all on his own. For example, we never, EVER have shamed him or been upset if he has had a potty accident. But he hates them, and has been motivated to avoid accidents. He absorbed all on his own, without fear being used, that people don't have accidents, or that wet is yucky, or whatever it is.

To bring this back to the OP - I agree that it sounds like you are not happy with how your children are operating with you. I would work on that piece - are there any specifics you can post about to get good ideas?

Let your kids' relationship with their dad be their relationship with their dad. But maybe use this as a signal that it's not working FOR YOU and find a way to change that, within the framework you think is right.

[heartmama]

I'm dismayed by the posters who say you must demand respect from your children in order to get it, as though it was totally abnormal for respect to arise naturally in a loving, playful family that acknowledges each members' needs.

I certainly hope my post didn't come across this way. I have seen parents who really struggle to acknowledge their own needs though, and that is what I personally am talking about when I say parents must stand up for their limits/boundaries. "Needs" is another good word to exchange there. My point was that 'disrespectfulness' can be a child's way of pushing a too-nice parent to reveal needs that aren't being consistently or clearly expressed.

[RoadToAvonlea]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

Well I have to disagree with you a little bit - I don't follow the law because I fear the consequences; I follow the law, even the bits I don't particularly like/agree with, because I believe in "the rule of law" - that is, it's better than "do what the king says because otherwise he'll order you hanged."

Semantics. We could argue a thousands reasons why people obey laws, but some of those reasons ARE; obligations, consequences, and fear. None of which I think are bad in and of themselves.

In regards to the OP, I think it's important to remember that we shouldn't paint her husband with the big, bad, fearful brush, which is why I felt it pertinent to point out that fear is not always bad. The more aggressive parent is not by default the one who needs to change, and by everyone dog piling a person who isn't here to defend themself as being an ogre who's children fear him without placing an equal amount of emphasis on what Mom can do to the change the situation is unfair at best, and and detrimental to the kids at worst.

[Viola]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

I'm dismayed by the posters who say you must demand respect from your children in order to get it, as though it was totally abnormal for respect to arise naturally in a loving, playful family that acknowledges each members' needs.

But how old are the kids before it starts happening? :

Actually, my 9 year old is starting to come around.

[sunshineafterrain]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I certainly hope my post didn't come across this way. I have seen parents who really struggle to acknowledge their own needs though, and that is what I personally am talking about when I say parents must stand up for their limits/boundaries. "Needs" is another good word to exchange there. My point was that 'disrespectfulness' can be a child's way of pushing a too-nice parent to reveal needs that aren't being consistently or clearly expressed.

I hope you don't feel that way- I loved your response!!
In fact, a mistake that I made with my children- "bending to their moods" -at my expense. I am just realizing this the hard way, and I notice my children have no problem asserting their rights and boundaries~ while I have great difficulty asserting mine.

I thought your reply was wonderful, it certainly was kind hearted and helped me--thank you!