why do my kids treat me like garbage and their stern father with respect? - Page 2

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I certainly hope my post didn't come across this way. I have seen parents who really struggle to acknowledge their own needs though, and that is what I personally am talking about when I say parents must stand up for their limits/boundaries. "Needs" is another good word to exchange there. My point was that 'disrespectfulness' can be a child's way of pushing a too-nice parent to reveal needs that aren't being consistently or clearly expressed.

No, I thought your post, as all your posts are, was balanced, thoughtful, and really helpful

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by sweetpea333

if their father asks them not to do something the say Okay daddy in a sweet voice and stop. If I ask they do what they want and really don't care what I have to say.

You may inadvertently be teaching them that it's OK to ignore you.

How often do you ask them to do something you aren't willing to back up with some sort of an immediate consequence? Repetetive requests and commands, no matter how gentle or playful, turns into blahblahblah and they wait for it to be repeated several times to find out if you really mean it. If their dad follows up a command with a consequence, he's going to get the "yes sir, how high sir" response most of the time.

What do you do to enforce your requests? It can be as simple as removing them from the something, or removing the "something" from them, but they may have concluded that you are a paper tiger and if they are getting enough enjoyment out of "something" it's worth ignoring you. On the other hand, getting a time out from daddy might not be worth it.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

You may inadvertently be teaching them that it's OK to ignore you.

How often do you ask them to do something you aren't willing to back up with some sort of an immediate consequence? Repetetive requests and commands, no matter how gentle or playful, turns into blahblahblah and they wait for it to be repeated several times to find out if you really mean it. If their dad follows up a command with a consequence, he's going to get the "yes sir, how high sir" response most of the time.

What do you do to enforce your requests? It can be as simple as removing them from the something, or removing the "something" from them, but they may have concluded that you are a paper tiger and if they are getting enough enjoyment out of "something" it's worth ignoring you. On the other hand, getting a time out from daddy might not be worth it.

ITA with this post and also wonder what you do as far as consequences. I try my best to be respectful and kind with me son but I mean what I say and 'no' is not an option. He doesn't get to just ignore me. We don't ignore each other in this house. I read something here "get off your butt parenting". Meaning that you get up and physically go and make it work. If DS won't pick something up then I get up, put my hand over his and we pick it up together. etc etc.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

I'll bet if you were a single mom, in the absence of a partner who yells, uses timeouts, and "is firm," you would get more respect from your children. Its very likely that your style is perfectly fine, but your style in the presence of a harsher style gets laughed at.

I'm dismayed by the posters who say you must demand respect from your children in order to get it, as though it was totally abnormal for respect to arise naturally in a loving, playful family that acknowledges each members' needs.

Both DH and I use a style similar to yours, and DD is both respected and respectful. I have absolutely no doubt that if one of us began using timeouts and a firm tone, that she would become anxious and immediately obey that parent. Whether or not we could see the fear, her obeying would be driven by uneasiness, anxiety, and discomfort, instead of a mutual desire for peace, harmony, and respect in the family. I also have no doubt DD would eventually come to see the parent who is less harsh as the parent she take out all the side effects of having to deal with the harsher parent.

Parenting doesn't have to be physically painful to be experienced as too harsh. I'll bet your children don't negotiate with your DH - your DH doesn't give any room for developing the skills of compromise and negotiation.

The harsher the firmer parent becomes, the worse the milder parent is treated by the children. Its not the harsher parent who is disrespected... its the milder one. Parents need to agree on a parenting style that they both can and will support so these dynamics don't happen and hurt the whole family.

I don't know that this is so true. Kids are really smart and they know how act in several different situations depending on if there is going to be follow through on the caregivers part or not. If a child knows you are going to follow through they are more likely to respond to your request than if they know you won't follow through. A lot of kids also do nothing for people who do yell and use time-out or even violence a lot because they do it mostly in extremes of frustration where they don't follow through or they do it all the time and the kid is used to it. It sounds like the OP is posting about a situation where her kids are expecting that their dad will follow through.

I am a single mom and I go through phases where dd doesn't listen to me and it is because I am so busy or exhausted that I don't follow through with my requests. When I do follow through on my requests it is in a gentle way without yelling, scolding, berating, or time-out and dd does do what I ask her to do then. None of this depends on how I am being compared to a partner it is depends on if I am following through or not, when I do follow through things are great.

I don't expect respect though or even think young kids are capable of giving it. It is a very loaded and subjective word. I don't think that respect really plays into a parent child relationship, children's moods change a lot based on whether they are happy with you or mad at you so they may think you are wonderful and to be looked up to one minute and then think you are the worst person the next minute because you ask them to stop doing something. True respect is something that stays unless there is something to shatter it, it doesn't disappear when you ask your child not to kick your seat and then come back five minutes later. I love my dd and she loves me and I don't think that this changes just because she chooses to ignore me sometimes.

[DoingDoing:Julie]

????

My sister also practices gd, but I distinctly remember a particularly uncontrolable day when a popcicle and a day at the beach were on the line. My niece's behavior got worse and worse over the hour, and she ended up sitting in a chair for 2 or 3 minutes (which made things worse) but in the end she got a popcicle and they all went to the beach! MY sister HAD said over the awful hour, "do you want to miss out on a popcicle?" or "we will not be able to go to the beach!!" I think at one point in her frustration she had actually said "you can not have a popcicle, any more!"

Are you infact a pushover? I dont know . . . there is a fine line between gd and pushover. Or atleast there often can be.

[DoingDoing:Julie]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I don't expect respect though or even think young kids are capable of giving it. It is a very loaded and subjective word. I don't think that respect really plays into a parent child relationship, children's moods change a lot based on whether they are happy with you or mad at you so they may think you are wonderful and to be looked up to one minute and then think you are the worst person the next minute because you ask them to stop doing something. True respect is something that stays unless there is something to shatter it, it doesn't disappear when you ask your child not to kick your seat and then come back five minutes later. I love my dd and she loves me and I don't think that this changes just because she chooses to ignore me sometimes.

There is some truth in this. Respect means something different in parent/child relationships. Not the same as two adults who respect one another . . .

[AbbieB]

I sometimes feel jealous/annoyed when my spirited DD seems to be a perfect, well behaved child for others but an out of control brat with me.

I do not question for one minute weather she loves and respects me. I know she does.

I am with her (for the most part) 24/7. I do the lion's share of parenting. DD and I get tiered, cranky, hungry and moody just like everyone else. We tend to not leave the house/interact with others if we are having a bad moment (or day). It sometimes seems like all of the yucky stuff happens only when I'm in charge, but it's just coincidental. My parenting did not cause it. My parenting just keeps it away from everyone else.

DD also is old enough to know that when she is interacting with others that she needs to "be on her best behavior" or others will quickly get annoyed. For example the other kids at the park don't want to play with a cranky kid, but will happily play with a relaxed easy going kid.

The same goes for relating to grandparents. Grandma is much more fun when DD is cooperative than when she is sulking.

As for Daddy? He comes home from work tiered and cranky more often than not. Unfortunately, DD has learned that listening to him gets positive attention. Any spirited behavior on her parents often ends in him asking her to leave him alone and Mommy being asked to take over. (I'm not saying this is good...it's just a topic for another thread.)

One last thought. I think that because DD and I have such a strong attachment that I am a safe person for her to let her hair down around. She can hurl "I hate you." at me all day long and she knows I will still love her unconditionally. She trusts me to guide her and set limits but also trusts that her constant testing of them does not change my love. She also knows that I am not going anywhere. I don't leave to work elsewhere else if she is bugging me, I don't cut a visit short. (again...this is a topic for another thread I think.)

[sweetpea333]

thanx for all of the replies, I do think that maybe I am a pushover and give in alot where as my husband won't and maybe I am being quick to call him harsh... just because he doesn't give in like I do. He uses timeouts when things are way out of control and the kids are at eachothers throats, I would do it to if my dd would stay in her room if i asked her too for a few minutes to calm her down.. He doesn't yell at them but over there shreiking voices and they definitely don't fear him, because he is very consistent with his disciplining and does not do it out of anger. After reading the responses I think the problem is me being a pushover giving into things for some piece and quiet, I think I got to focus on being consistent.

[phathui5]

Maybe they listen to him because they know what to expect. He's probably more clear about the fact that they have to listen, so they do.

[ShadowMom]

They obey him because they fear him. They act worse with you because they don't fear you and they know they can be "bad" around you and you won't stop loving them.

That's my guess, but what else can a person do but guess over the Internet...

[allgirls]

I am going to ask this gently.

How is your dh with you? Does he treat you with respect? Does he demand your children treat their mother with respect. Does he do things to undermine your parenting such as "you need to be firmer" etc when they don't listen to you. Kids take that stuff in. I'm just wondering if that might contribute to it somewhat.

In my family my dh would immediately speak to my children should they not treat me in a certain way and I do the same for him. We parent differently, I'm more gentle in some ways, he's a bit more firm/stern but not terribly so..he's just a bit more hardwired to the old "compliance" but it's automatic and he will flex up after the initial "do as I say" moment. But overall we demand our children treat the other with respect and we, as a couple, unfailingly are polite and respectful to each other even in disagreement(which wouldn't happen in front of the children).

[elizawill]

op, my dh and i parent differently too. i'm definitely a bigger pushover, and my dh is more strict than i am (however, my dh never yells...while i'm more prone to lose my cool and raise my voice). my dh is a fabulous daddy though! i admit that i do not always agree with his choice of discipline (things i wouldn't care about, he may correct the kids over, etc). but he's at a different place om the GD spectrum than me. i respect that though and choose to support the way he parents & know he will continue to grow through trial and error, just like i do.

my children listen to him more than me, but they do not fear him. furthermore, they love him and never have felt that he's stopped loving them. never. i don't think if a father puts a child in time-out they automatically feel ostracized and unloved. i do think your dh needs to really work on his communication though. yelling and inflexibility are what i would define as the biggest problems you've described.

[PGTlatte]

Originally Posted by elmh23

But I will say I think your husband is demanding respect so he gets it.

I demand respect from my children towards me, other people and things and as a result they give it (most of the time at least.)

You can be more firm and demand respect without yelling.

I find our house is a much more positive place all around, with more happy times and good feelings, when our kids respect our authority.

[AngelBee]

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[meemee]

oh man i dont even associate the word respect with 3s and 4 year olds.

OP is that what you expect out of 3/4 yar olds? obedience. you want them to do what you say they should do? because they listen to their dad?

first of all i think that's a great balance - a 'strict' parent and one not so.

i feel children need that. for me i say they have the freedom to vent. to be themselves.

i am a single co-parent and we are just like you. i dont demand my dd listen to me every single time. she is 6 now and i am happy how things are with us. i still dont bring up respect. its more about listening to my dd. why cant seh do that now and when can seh do that.

though my listens more to her dad she has this special bond with me. i didnt see it till seh was 5. she was much more relaxed around me. but with her dad she always has to be 'on duty'. you wont discern it now. u will see it later.

the fact my dd doesnt listen to me (except when its absolutely necessary and i make it known why she always listens to me) i take it as a compliment. that she feels so loved and accepted as to who she is that she can 'let her hair hang down'.

i dont feel used. like my dd told me in one sentence which describes her relationship
with her dad and me - mommy you understand me, daddy doesnt.

heartmama i your post.

[nina_yyc]

This is really interesting to read - there are obviously a lot of variables here and it sounds like the OP is going to know which one rings true.

In my own experience...DH and I have similar GD styles, but DH does pay better attention to her when he is around. He is around much less and we both work so I often find myself in the role of multitasking mama. DD listens better to him, so it may be the parent seen less often or the parent who gives more of his full attention that clicks with her.

Our DCP is also GD but very clear on her boundaries, and does sometimes raise her voice for emphasis (although rewards and punishments are not used.) She and my mom get amazingly good behavior out of DD. However I know DD is not as comfortable at daycare (acted like she wasn't scared of new dog but cried when I picked her up, potty training there is behind where she is at home) so that is a factor too.

I don't think that anyone is advocating "demanding" respect but I certainly find that it is not naturally arising in our family, but rather being taught. DD is corrected when she says MINE! instead of please and MOVE! instead of excuse me. Now I don't pretend to think that correcting her speech is leading to respect, but it is working, and when she is more polite to me I am better at modeling respect.