Outraged! - Certainly I wasn't in the wrong?!

[ann_of_loxley]

Every Friday my DS (who is nearly 3 years 3 months old) go swimming. Being the swimming pool, we make frequent pee trips. We did EC and I am sure he would let me know if he needed to go, but theres something about being in water that seems to make you need/want to go more frequently or something! lol...

Anyroad...its a trip to the loo on the way there, once there, and afterwards...

We then cruise the town (small as it is) - Visit the sweet shop, the library, and go to all the chairty shops to see if we can get any bargains (I usually get him a small used toy, and maybe find myself a top or something for cheap!)...

The last chairty shop is at the very end of the high street (its the last shop really)... Whilst there, looking at the tops and DS looking at the used toys - DS was doing a little dance and then informed me that he needed the toilet!

quick quick right?...

This does not happen often but happened a few months ago in the same shop.

So my son ran to the back of the shop where he knew the loos where (this child has a great memory for things like that!)... The 'back' of the shop door is always open, but its not a place for customers as its where they sort out all the donated items to put in the shop. So as he ran back there, a lady stopped him and said sorry he can't go back there as its not for customers. I said thats okay, we just needed to use the toilet real quick - he really has to go. She then looked me in the face and flat out lied to me saying 'We do not have a toilet in this shop'... I said 'that is a lie because he had to use it a few months back'... Another lady in the back (there were only 2 there) looked at me and said 'Well...the toilets are not for customer use!'... I said 'its for my son, hes only 3 and really needs to go and when children have to go, they gotta go!'... They proceeded to tell me that they were sorry, but I could not let him use it and that I could walk up the high street to the public loos! ... I said that doesn't leave us much choice, he will just have to pee outside the shop then as he wouldn't make it that far to the toilet! And so thats exactly what happened.

1). Small children are not able to do all that thinking and planning and working around time and distance when it comes to using the toilet. A parent, such as myself, can help as much as they can (by making sure everyone uses the toilet before you leave the house, etc)...but inevitably, and it does happen, you will be out somewhere and they will need to go regardless!...

and

2). A small child an not 'hold' it until you walk the 5-10 mintues it takes to get to a public loo! You might be lucky and be near one or out in the middle of nowhere with a bush around or something...but it is unrealistic to expect them to hold if. If your child can..great!...A parent knows their child and their bladders though...and I know my son would have wet himself by the time we got all the way over the other side of the high street to the public loos!

I was furious as you can imagine! I could no just risk him wetting himself. Its negative something degress out there (as in blood freezing!) and since hes been using the toilet independently from 17 months of age (thank god for EC!), I do not exactly have need to carry spare clothes around for him. Shame...he could have just wet himself there on their carpet! I am also not going to carry a spare set of clothes around for him just in case something like that happens again to him - I will not let him humilate himself just because people are being rude! - Hes a little boy! Anyone else would have just let us use the toilet (we live in a very small village!) - It not like he is purposly saving up all his wee just so he can use the toilet there!

He had to pee (and got his pants a little wet) badly as soon as we got outside of the shop - so he had to pee right there on the pavement. I am not exactly pleased about having his naked body on show in public either! (as much as we happily are nude at home, being naked out in the middle of a shopping centre is a different story!)

I seriously felt like crying when I left that shop!

Would you have done that as well?

I am thinking of writing to Oxfam (which is the chairty that it is) and telling them how outraged I am at the way my son was treated becuase he had to pee and how he had to then pee outside in public on the pavement! I feel like I should not shop there every again!

Would it have been such a hard and bad thing for them to have let my DS pee in their toilet?:

[dawncayden]

I would have asked if my son could use the washroom and not just told them I was using it. They don't have to let you use it, so being polite as possible is a great way to get your needs met.

[kokonutmama]

A friend of mine had a similar experience when she was preschool age. She had to go poop and a security guard at a museum wouldn't open a door for her mother to get her to the toilet... so her mom told her to do her business on the floor... and she did.

I know from my parents owning a small shop when I was young that there are laws about whether a toilet can be used by "the public" or only by employees. It's a liability issue, too. Obviously, there are cases where the spirit is more important than the letter of the law... I'll bet the employee that you dealt with felt really torn, and never had a kid of her own, lol.

[ann_of_loxley]

Originally Posted by dawncayden

I would have asked if my son could use the washroom and not just told them I was using it. They don't have to let you use it, so being polite as possible is a great way to get your needs met.

I asked the lady at the front whilst my son was running into the back - the same lady that referred us to the back a few months ago.
When we left (and I was clearly angry) - she sate there looking rather shocked and confused about what had gone on. I think she saw it as a pretty simple thing as well. Child needs to pee - let child pee.

[ann_of_loxley]

It's a liability issue, too.

and this is what the world has come to! - Its really rather silly and sad!

What would I sue for?...the toilet paper being too rough? lol

[onlyzombiecat]

At the last place I worked the owners were extremely strict about no one but employees coming in the back of the store. We were told not to allow anyone back to use the toilet. There were no exceptions. They would have fired an employee who let someone come back to use the toilet.
I'm not sure I would have risked my job over someone needing to pee when there were public toilets in the area.

I would write a letter complaining to management about their store's strict policy but leave out your anger at the employees.

[EviesMom]

See now, I can understand a place having no restrooms that a child or the public could use. They can say they have no toilet or no toilet suitable for public use (I've seen some tiny stall things as an employee that I wouldn't want a child of mine in and I might say that to a mother.) However, in this case, he's used it before, so clearly they do have one he can use and they should have just let him use it again. Sorry OP!

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley

What would I sue for?...the toilet paper being too rough? lol

My son had an accident at 4 years old that involved a toilet, falling in, cutting the base of his penis (where it meets the body), ER visit, sedation, stitches and surgical glue. I have no doubt there are people in the world who would sue if that had happened in a public place (it didn't, it was at home).

[Alyantavid]

I think that's insane. We've used lots of bathrooms at stores that have no public bathroom. When you have a 2 (or 3) year old who needs to go, they need to go. We've never been refused. Ever.

I wouldn't be going back.

[KyleAnn]

This happened to my ds a while back at a store that we used to frequent, although he had never used their bathroom before. We had been in there a while, I had a bunch of things in our basket to buy...he ran up to the gal and asked very nicely if he could use their restroom, while doing the peepee dance...she looked at him, then to me and said, "No-for security reasons we are not allowed to let anyone use the bathroom." It was very frustrating and down right sad as I could see he was about to have an accident. I tried to appeal to them and even said, "please, he's just a little boy, he cannot hold it, etc. .." A flat unsympathetic NO was all I got.

Yeah it stunk...I remember I dropped my basket right there, scooped him up and literally ran with him to the end of the strip to the next nearest store, people staring at us all the way, LOL. Had there not been another open shop at the end of the block, would I have let him go right outside? Probably... in the parking lot by my car, yes.

I was upset about it for a while afterwards and still have never set another foot in that store.

It's a crummy situation but I wouldn't stew over it. I wouldn't return back there again though either. Sorry you had such a frustrating experience.

[Cherie2]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

My son had an accident at 4 years old that involved a toilet, falling in, cutting the base of his penis (where it meets the body).

oh, ow poor baby!

[mtiger]

I work retail and we used to allow customers to use our restroom. Used to. Until we had a few too many instances of the bathroom being left.... filthy. Filthy doesn't even describe it. Pee and loose feces everywhere. I can't make my associates clean it up - that's not right. So I and my manager end up cleaning the mess up. No more. If you have to go? There are public restrooms less than a minute away.

I sympathize as a parent. As a manager? Sorry - go use the public restroom.

[mytwogirls]

Oh mama, that is too bad. I would have done exactly what you did.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by mtiger

I work retail and we used to allow customers to use our restroom. Used to. Until we had a few too many instances of the bathroom being left.... filthy. Filthy doesn't even describe it. Pee and loose feces everywhere. I can't make my associates clean it up - that's not right. So I and my manager end up cleaning the mess up. No more. If you have to go? There are public restrooms less than a minute away.

I sympathize as a parent. As a manager? Sorry - go use the public restroom.

A FEW too many?? As in, this happened more than once? More than twice??? OMG!!!

[azmomtoone]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

My son had an accident at 4 years old that involved a toilet, falling in, cutting the base of his penis (where it meets the body), ER visit, sedation, stitches and surgical glue. I have no doubt there are people in the world who would sue if that had happened in a public place (it didn't, it was at home).

Ow, poor guy!!

OP- I would've done the same thing, have him pee right outside the front door! (actually though, I really don't see anything wrong with a toddler peeing outside anyway, for the reasons you stated, they just can't always wait to get to a toilet). At three, I would probably still carry a change of clothes; even w/out potty concerns he's still likely enough to find some mud to play in, or spill food/drink on himself etc. ......I don't see why they wouldn't let him pee, but you never know if there are reasons (like stated above, risking losing your job) that you're not aware of.... but stll

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

A FEW too many?? As in, this happened more than once? More than twice??? OMG!!!

Yep. Which is why we no longer allow our customers to use our employee restroom.

I'm a mom myself and have had to clean up my share of accidents. But... I'm sorry... I'm not paid enough to clean those of strangers.

[petitchou]

When I was working retail, we were not allowed to let customers use the toilets for all the reasons stated above - mainly liability. Bathrooms have to meet certain criteria to be used by customers and ours didn't. However, if it was a young child who was obviously in desperate need, most of us would make an exception. Generally, if the parent asked, I would explain the store policy and if they made a point that it was for their child, then I would go ahead and let them use it. I can see both sides and it's a tough call.

I think I would have asked the lady at the back again even though ds had used the bathroom before and you had already cleared it with the other woman. She had no way of knowing that you had already asked the woman up front.

And I can't believe she lied to you about not having a bathroom! That's just crazy - why on earth would she just downright lie like that? I would have been really upset about that.

[Storm Bride]

The company has the right to whatever policies they feel work for them. I also have the right not to go to their store again, and in this particular case, I wouldn't. I have no problem with businesses having no public washroom, but if they can't or won't make an exception for a small child, then I don't want to shop there with my small children. (IME, most places will make an exception for a small child...or a pregnant woman.)

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Yep. Which is why we no longer allow our customers to use our employee restroom.

I'm a mom myself and have had to clean up my share of accidents. But... I'm sorry... I'm not paid enough to clean those of strangers.

I was confused once when a coworker leapt in front of someone to block her from going into the restroom. Turned out she was a repeat projectile vomiter.

I've had ds use an empty (disposable) drink bottle quite a few times in the OP's situation. Even carried one around on purpose when he was younger.

[alexsam]

I agree- it stinks, but there are reasons (for the customer- not even the mess for employees). Often times in "non-public bathrooms" the store may place cleaning chemicals for storage and they may be dangerously accessable to anyone using the bathroom, full moping buckets with dirt or chemicals in them out in the open, they may not be safe for all people for other reasons (clutter, repairs or construction, etc.). There may be security concerns or unsecured merchandise on the way to the bathroom and that may be an insurance issue...

Like others said, as a mother- total sympathy and can understand being upset. As a person who believes sometimes rules like this are not just arbitrary, I think a public bathroom is what needed to happen. Sorry... It must have been really lousy .

Ya know... Thinking about it, there are some really innovative "potty on the go" type seats/pottys and things for toddlers and pre-schoolers if your is a "gotta go NOW!" kinda kid. I remember thinking they would be good on long trips and such (but mine does not seem to be an "urgent bathroom kid"). Like this: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...dProductId=153