Outraged! - Certainly I wasn't in the wrong?! - Page 3

[cotopaxi]

I can totally see both sides. If that's they're policy it's not fair to expect the woman to get herself in trouble. On the other hand, it seems pretty small-hearted to say no to a 3-year-old who's about to wet himself.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Breathless Wonder

Unfortunately, sometimes people don't choose to sue- their insurance company does.

But I still think exceptions should be made in case of emergency- for children and adults. Common sense says it's better to let people use the toilet than clean urine or diarrhea off the floor.

And there is a liability issue in bodily fluids on the floor too LOL.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

If they had to move cleaning products, tools or something equally dangerous into or close to the bathroom then it's not just about cleaning up pee.

Parents generally accompany small children when they head to a public restroom. Seriously, I still think common sense should prevail.

Actually, a couple months ago both my 2 and 3 year old and I took a walk down to a very small, neighborhood grocery store. It is about three or four long blocks from our house. dfd is in diapers...no problem there. ds had gone pee before we left, so I figured he'd be all set. Well, sure enough, we get there, we find the one thing we had to get (while dfd and ds act like maniacs...liability red flag!), we go check out, and suddenly ds has to go poop. I ask him first, looking at him very seriously as if to urge him to say "yes" if he can wait until we get back home (like I said, we were in the middle of checking out). He said "no" and looked at me pleadingly with complete panic in his eyes, and the owner of the store looked at us both sympathetically. I apologetically asked if we could use the restroom, and she said no problem and directed me there.

My gosh...if ever there were liability issues! We walk to the back of the store where she has directed us, and we are standing in a narrow area, surrounded by stacked boxes. I find I have to take a very large, heavy peice of largely unsanded wood off the length of the door to "unlock" it (we live in a large city, fwiw) to get to the back. Then, we are in a very small area that on the left leads straight to a large stove in the kitchen of the restaurant next door, and the door is of course open, revealing a number of restaurant staff busily rushing around. In front of us is all kinds of cleaning supplies, and behind that is a door, opened, and a screen door leading to a parking lot. To the right of us is the bathroom, a small, dimly lit room with tools and things stacked in the corner.

Despite my kids being maniacs, we were able to safely use the small restroom without incident. I was with my children the whole time, and held onto dfd tightly throughout. I know the clerk could see that despite my wild children, I was a concerned mother who would do anything to keep my child safe in the bathroom. I am sure that she balanced all that information in her consideration of the decision to let us into the bathroom. Human beings are actually often pretty good judges in delicate balancing acts like this. This clerk rightfully let common sense prevail.

I suspect this is a common event in bathrooms across nations and that the number of lawsuits over bathroom issues pale in comparison.

I was also very thankful I wasn't forced to find a tree outside by which my son could poop. It would have been absolutely humiliating for him, and really gross for all kinds of folks coming to these businesses.

Much as we plan ahead, hey, emergencies come up.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Breathless Wonder

But I still think exceptions should be made in case of emergency- for children and adults. Common sense says it's better to let people use the toilet than clean urine or diarrhea off the floor.

Or walls, the doorknob, the sink, the boxes we have stacked in the bathroom, the mop bucket, the cleaning supplies, the toilet paper and paper towels, etc. From customers a variety of ages. Frankly, I'd rather just mop up a puddle on the floor. Easy, peasy, done in a flash.

And yes, we do store a lot of stuff in back, including in the bathroom.

Our public restrooms are actually only 2 doors down. As much as I'd like to accommodate, the answer is no.

[dynamicdoula]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

A FEW too many?? As in, this happened more than once? More than twice??? OMG!!!

I worked at KFC near a navy base entrance... do I need to say more? Okay I will.

Single guys would come in after partying, they'd be hammered and want to get some food. Apparently the tasty smells of KFC made their bowels loose because night after night the toilets would be covered in the foulest loosest shit and we'd have to clean it. That and barf. Oh yeah, fun times.

But, if I was the manager and we had a no public potty rule, I'd at least have the freaking compassion to let a small child use it. I'm a mother, a three year old isn't gonna leave anything behind I haven' seen and cleaned up before and I'd much rather show kindness and good customer service than be a hard ass over something so petty.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Sierra

Parents generally accompany small children when they head to a public restroom. Seriously, I still think common sense should prevail.

Actually, a couple months ago both my 2 and 3 year old and I took a walk down to a very small, neighborhood grocery store. It is about three or four long blocks from our house. dfd is in diapers...no problem there. ds had gone pee before we left, so I figured he'd be all set. Well, sure enough, we get there, we find the one thing we had to get (while dfd and ds act like maniacs...liability red flag!), we go check out, and suddenly ds has to go poop. I ask him first, looking at him very seriously as if to urge him to say "yes" if he can wait until we get back home (like I said, we were in the middle of checking out). He said "no" and looked at me pleadingly with complete panic in his eyes, and the owner of the store looked at us both sympathetically. I apologetically asked if we could use the restroom, and she said no problem and directed me there.

My gosh...if ever there were liability issues! We walk to the back of the store where she has directed us, and we are standing in a narrow area, surrounded by stacked boxes. I find I have to take a very large, heavy peice of largely unsanded wood off the length of the door to "unlock" it (we live in a large city, fwiw) to get to the back. Then, we are in a very small area that on the left leads straight to a large stove in the kitchen of the restaurant next door, and the door is of course open, revealing a number of restaurant staff busily rushing around. In front of us is all kinds of cleaning supplies, and behind that is a door, opened, and a screen door leading to a parking lot. To the right of us is the bathroom, a small, dimly lit room with tools and things stacked in the corner.

Despite my kids being maniacs, we were able to safely use the small restroom without incident. I was with my children the whole time, and held onto dfd tightly throughout. I know the clerk could see that despite my wild children, I was a concerned mother who would do anything to keep my child safe in the bathroom. I am sure that she balanced all that information in her consideration of the decision to let us into the bathroom. Human beings are actually often pretty good judges in delicate balancing acts like this. This clerk rightfully let common sense prevail.

I suspect this is a common event in bathrooms across nations and that the number of lawsuits over bathroom issues pale in comparison.

I was also very thankful I wasn't forced to find a tree outside by which my son could poop. It would have been absolutely humiliating for him, and really gross for all kinds of folks coming to these businesses.

Much as we plan ahead, hey, emergencies come up.

Well not every parent feels the need to accompany small children to the bathroom. I worked in a family restaurant for a while and many, MANY parents would just send their 4 yo back to the washroom alone.

[samrawet]

bed luck

[bri276]

I'm a mom myself and have had to clean up my share of accidents. But... I'm sorry... I'm not paid enough to clean those of strangers.

eh, they'll just piss on the floor of the dressing rooms anyways when I worked in retail we had several floor pissers even though we did allow bathroom access.

seriously though, I do feel bad for your little boy having to pee out in the cold.

[belovedofbast]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

A FEW too many?? As in, this happened more than once? More than twice??? OMG!!!

I don't work retail, but at a public pool. We are responsible for cleaning the locker rooms/bathrooms etc. Let me just say that the "public" is disgusting, without getting into gross detail. I mean...is it really that hard to poo INTO the toilet? Instead of BESIDE it...

I have sometimes felt like I would like to find out where this person lives and go take a poo in front of their toilet (or basically repeat what they did to our facility)

Off topic, sorry

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Well not every parent feels the need to accompany small children to the bathroom. I worked in a family restaurant for a while and many, MANY parents would just send their 4 yo back to the washroom alone.

On the other hand, if there are safety concerns, I bet most parents would be willing to do so upon request.

[txdancer]

Originally Posted by Sierra

I prefer to support those businesses that can put common sense before policies when and *if* appropriate. A small child who *really* needed to go? They were just lucky he didn't pee right there on the carpet while they persistently denied him access.

Common sense is that young children have to go when they have to go (and I say this as one of those moms who carries a plastic jar in the car just for pee emergencies...so yes, I am definitely planning ahead and know I can't expect bathroom access).

If I were working at the store, I'd much rather take the risk of cleaning pee off tile in the bathroom than the potential of having to get it out of the carpet. Not only were they in the wrong, they were taking a big chance.

I would write a letter to management as well. We really need to become more family friendly in western culture.

Oh, and by the way, my dad, who is a business consultant (and also just genius, though I don't agree with everything he says) had an interesting relevant blog post once called "rules schmules".

making exceptions is something that a business should never do. One of the businesses that I work for was sued last year over an incident that happened when a child got hurt in a non-public restroom after an exception had been made. They settled out of court for a lot of money, and as a small business it nearly killed them. The shop was completely correct in what they did from a liability standpoint. Regularly making exceptions and allowing people to use their nonpublic restrooms opens them up to huge liabilities.

[Breeder]

I'd go back to the store... so I could speak to the manager and tell her that due to her employees rudeness and their lack of consideration for a small child's biological needs I would not be coming back to their establishment... and that I would be letting anyone with a small child know that they also should not shop there since small children are not respected.

There was absolutely no call for that employee to lie to you and be so flat about a toddler's needs.

Screw liability, we are talking about a three year old boy and him being treated with zero compassion.

The establishment could require that parents accompany the child, they could've signed a waiver, they could have at least EXPLAINED the reasons why...

If the public restrooms were just two doors down it would be different, but from the OP's description they were pretty far down the street.

[Tigerchild]

Unfortuantely, if the parents are so inclined to steal, the kid can be used as a convenient carry all.

I wouldn't have believed this (and resisted at first security procedures that required that I essentially frisk young children and babies) but I've personally pulled drugs, weapons, and other contraband off kids and from diaper bags, ect.

I've also known people who purposefully used children to shoplift (not getting the KIDS to shoplift, but essentially using them as a carry all).

And sadly, the people who shoplift/steal, contrary to public opinion, actually CAN'T be typed by how they look/act most of the time.

So honestly, while personally I probably would have allowed a young child to use my store restroom so long as we were staffed to have an accompanying staff person (outside the door), I understand how blanket policies get made.

Not only can people be absolutely disgusting in regards to bathrooms and changing rooms, I think most people would be shocked at how parents and other guardians use their kids as well.

[ebbybaby]

I'm kinda on the fence with this, I know from past experience nannying and babysitting (yet to have personal exp aside from professional exp in this as my oldest is only 1) that anyone 4 and under still needs to be asked constantly that they need to "go" or I tell them to go just to empty anyways so we'll be good for a lil longer...thats before we leave any place that does have a public washroom, but I honestly timed it as well as I myself "go" frequently and so I'd even stop at extra places just to see if they needed to go, I never left it to chance that there might be a washroom at a store I could let them use. I honestly believe I've never had a kid have an accident because of this.

I know from being a staff member at quite a few places, if it was only for staff use I appreciated it only being for staff use. There are so many people who let their kids piss all over the seat and don't clean up after them, even if they are assisting them... maybe the store had had some bad experiences and made that new rule, because you were so hasty/urgent rather then asking politely about it we're rude back to you.

[phathui5]

I generally expect when we go to a store that we'll have a 50/50 chance of being allowed to use their bathroom, and it doesn't bother me too much when they say no.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Breeder

I'd go back to the store... so I could speak to the manager and tell her that due to her employees rudeness and their lack of consideration for a small child's biological needs I would not be coming back to their establishment... and that I would be letting anyone with a small child know that they also should not shop there since small children are not respected.

There was absolutely no call for that employee to lie to you and be so flat about a toddler's needs.

Screw liability, we are talking about a three year old boy and him being treated with zero compassion.

The establishment could require that parents accompany the child, they could've signed a waiver, they could have at least EXPLAINED the reasons why...

If the public restrooms were just two doors down it would be different, but from the OP's description they were pretty far down the street.

Sorry but it comes to a choice between having to clean up an accident or ending up with no job, no money and no home because of an exception. I'd rather do the cleaning. And so would most store managers and owners. A 3 yos need to pee doesn't trump a companies need to protect themselves from the litigious society that has developed. Not to mention that it's illegal to let someone use a bathroom that doesn't meet safety codes for the public. At least here it is. And no a 3yos needs don't trump the law when it's someone else that has to break it.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Breeder

There was absolutely no call for that employee to lie to you and be so flat about a toddler's needs.

Well, if we wanted to be technical, it wasn't a lie - the store does not have a public restroom.

Originally Posted by Breeder

The establishment could require that parents accompany the child, they could've signed a waiver, they could have at least EXPLAINED the reasons why...

And don't you think that, if they had to sign a waiver, the kid would've pissed his pants in the meantime anyway?

As for liability, it's very cavalier to state

Originally Posted by Breeder

Screw liability, we are talking about a three year old boy and him being treated with zero compassion.

Screw liability? In our litigious society? Heck no.

Look - I'm a mother of two kids. Somehow, they survived their younger years w/o pissing on anyone's floor, etc. As have millions of other kids around the world through many generations.

Would you allow a total stranger who knocked on your door and asked to use your bathroom (even if they had a 3yo with them) into your home? I'd be inclined to say no.

[NiteNicole]

Unfortuantely, if the parents are so inclined to steal, the kid can be used as a convenient carry all.

I've also known people who purposefully used children to shoplift (not getting the KIDS to shoplift, but essentially using them as a carry all).

And sadly, the people who shoplift/steal, contrary to public opinion, actually CAN'T be typed by how they look/act most of the time.

This is SO TRUE. I've watched people shove all manner of stuff down their kids pants, into a stroller, in a sling, in the kid's jacket, etc. And they certainly do use the kid to go through the backroom (oh no, lady, you go on, we'll find our own way back out) for the "bathroom" and help themselves to anything they can on the way out (employee bags and property included). YOU know you're a nice person who will watch her child and clean up any mess, but they have no way of knowing that and believe me, MOST people do not know how to behave in restrooms. I wonder if they can't aim at home either.

I would imagine "we don't have a restroom" is their standard reply and the person who let you use it the first time got chewed out, now that they know about it. That's why it's not worth making exceptions. If I make an exception and the next person doesn't, then the customer is ticked off but *I* am the one who is going to get in trouble.

One of the many reasons I'm glad not to be working in retail.

[ElliesMomma]

that was a "charity" shop? where is their charity in this situation? so, people donate their used toys and clothes, and the charity shop sells them to raise funds?

doesn't sound like "deep pockets" to me; they aren't going to be sued for a toilet mishap. and clearly the kid wasn't in a ruse to steal stuff. it was an amazing lack of compassion. haven't you ever had to pee *so bad* while out and looking for a place to stop?

if these people really were that rude to you and you were a long time customer there, possibly someone who has donated to them as well... i'd say: spread the word far and wide that this particular store gave you this particular experience. never go there again and do your best to get others to boycot the store as well.

and i wouldn't equate it to a stranger coming to your front door out of the blue to ask to use your toilet. you were a *customer* a patron of their store, giving them your money for purchases. they should at the very least have a big sign up "no public restroom" if they have recently changed their policy. and if your son got to use the restroom there the last time, the compassionate thing for them to do would have been to let him use it again since it was an emergency, with a warning that this will be the last time, we aren't allowed to let people use it anymore.

[amnda527]

I used to work at an eye glass store. There were patients files in the back by the bathroom, so I think that was part of the reason that we could not open our bathroom to the public. Another reason was because if we get someone in there who takes a massive dump, and clogs up our toilet, I don't want to be the one to have to clean it up. Some people think it's funny to make a mess too...I'm not getting into it. If we didn't have the files in the back, and someone came and asked if their small child could use the bathroom, I'm sure I would have let them.