Outraged! - Certainly I wasn't in the wrong?! - Page 5

[mommy2maya]

Originally Posted by Ceili

It's not just a liability issue, at least not in the US. The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requires that any public bathroom meet standards for accessible design.

Exactly, and for this reason, many older stores have had to restrict customer usage of restrooms. In other words, they have to have accessibility to all people, including wheelchairs, or nothing at all. To retrofit many bathrooms would be entirely too cost prohibitive for many older stores, so instead they have to have no customer restroom.

[MayBaby2007]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

i don't give a rat's butt about "policy" it's called being a decent human being. if my employer didn't understand that, i would quit. i wouldn't be concerned about keeping a job where i was threatened with firing for letting a CHILD use the restroom. i know posters are playing devils advocate here but seriously what has happened to common decency (and sense) in this world? are we really so concerned about losing some low paying retail job that we're fine with someone who can't hold it peeing or pooping their pants? that's so not right.

I'm glad you're in a position to up and quit a job.

I (as many others) are not able to do that, even if it is low pay. Yes, I am "really so concerned about losing some low paying retail job" that I would turn someone away for using the bathrooom if that is what my manager said. Especially now in this economy. If you have "some low paying job," you better hold onto it. And I wouldn't risk my job for someone's bathroom urge. Sorry.

Customers at work get mad at me all the time, for rules I follow because the manager tells me to. If the manager cares about the business, he will accomodate the customers better. But it is not up to the minimum wage worker who has a family at home to feed.

(I'm not bolding to be snarky. Just bolding to emphasize that it's the manager who makes the rules and the low paid employee is the one to carry out the rules).

Sorta OT:

I personally do turn people away for using the bathroom at my job under certain circumstances. We DO have a "public" restroom, but all the workers work alone (one person per shift). It's a place where you lock the doors after midnight. We have the option of allowing people in the building, but it is completely our jurisdiction. So...if someone comes to my job at 3am to "use the restroom", they don't come in my building. Suddenly "we don't have a public restroom. Sorry." There are several well lit, highly populated gas stations down the street.

The guy who robbed me while I was pregnant wanted to "use the bathroom" (aka: case the place). At 3am...I don't care if you're female, male or have kids. My job is not a normal place for a pit stop so it puts up red flags for me. (Sadly, many criminals do use children to help them commit crime, as a pp mentioned).

[jeca]

I can see why you would be upset and yes I think you have a right to be. If my very young child was denied access to a bathroom at a store I would not shop there again. The store was of course within their right to refuse just as I would be to tell everyone I know how they don't care enough to have a bathroom for paying customers.
I was at a store once when DD had to go. She was maybe 3. I had a bunch of clothes. The lady said I had to take her across the street as their bathroom was not for the public. I politely said oh wow okay. She said I will hold these till you get back. I told her I wasn't carrying my kid all the way across the street to pee just to come back in here and spend my money. I said sorry and left. She looked dumbstruck. It would have been funny if I wasn't in such a hurry. I had a bunch of stuff really and I know it must have sucked to put it all back.

[hipumpkins]

Originally Posted by phathui5

I generally expect when we go to a store that we'll have a 50/50 chance of being allowed to use their bathroom, and it doesn't bother me too much when they say no.

That's us too. Our local card store let my Dd use their bathroom after a little hesitation and when I went I knew why the were uncertain. The bathroom had lots of boxes with their stock of knick knacks and cards and lots of stuff to be sold. I think they let us b/c we lived next door and we were frequent customers.
I totally understand when we're told no...but I am still irritated b/c of the inconvenience.

[stickywicket67]

I'm glad you're in a position to up and quit a job.

i'm not in a position to quit a job but i think everyone is in a position to decide who they will work for. if i had an employer tell me that i was not allowed to let a child or a pregnant woman to ever use the restroom i would look else where for employment. that would speaks volumes to me about 1) their trust of my judgment 2) their compassion for other people

I (as many others) are not able to do that, even if it is low pay. Yes, I am "really so concerned about losing some low paying retail job" that I would turn someone away for using the bathrooom if that is what my manager said. Especially now in this economy. If you have "some low paying job," you better hold onto it. And I wouldn't risk my job for someone's bathroom urge. Sorry.

Customers at work get mad at me all the time, for rules I follow because the manager tells me to. If the manager cares about the business, he will accomodate the customers better. But it is not up to the minimum wage worker who has a family at home to feed. (I'm not bolding to be snarky. Just bolding to emphasize that it's the manager who makes the rules and the low paid employee is the one to carry out the rules)

if an employee of mine took what i told them as the letter of the law, no exceptions ever, and didn't use their best judgment thus angering a customer- in this economy- i'd be pretty freaking mad! i'd probably fire them for not making the customer happy. employees need to use their best judgment to keep the customer satisfied. a 3 year old is way different than a 10 year old. a suddenly nauseous 10 year old is different than a 20 year old. there is no way management can write policy for every situation.

Sorta OT:

I personally do turn people away for using the bathroom at my job under certain circumstances. We DO have a "public" restroom, but all the workers work alone (one person per shift). It's a place where you lock the doors after midnight. We have the option of allowing people in the building, but it is completely our jurisdiction. So...if someone comes to my job at 3am to "use the restroom", they don't come in my building. Suddenly "we don't have a public restroom. Sorry." There are several well lit, highly populated gas stations down the street.

The guy who robbed me while I was pregnant wanted to "use the bathroom" (aka: case the place). At 3am...I don't care if you're female, male or have kids. My job is not a normal place for a pit stop so it puts up red flags for me. (Sadly, many criminals do use children to help them commit crime, as a pp mentioned).

i'm sorry this happened to you. that is horrible! i can see why you would be concerned about people using the restroom. if i were working somewhere alone at 3 am no one would ever use it either.

in the case of the OP though we're talking about a small shop, a regular customer with a young child, in the middle of the day, on the main shopping street. no excuse, imo.

[AlpineMama]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

i'm not in a position to quit a job but i think everyone is in a position to decide who they will work for. if i had an employer tell me that i was not allowed to let a child or a pregnant woman to ever use the restroom i would look else where for employment. that would speaks volumes to me about 1) their trust of my judgment 2) their compassion for other people

Sorry, but I agree with the PP on this one. If you are in a position where you can cater to your overall sense of morality, and decide whether an employer is compassionate enough, then you don't NEED that job.

After he got out of the Army, my DH tried (and failed) to find a minimum wage job - ANY minimum wage job - for about three years. To support us. And he was unable to. I think at that point he would have taken a job that would have been to wear a clown suit and scare babies in strollers if it meant that he could have supported us.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by jeca

I was at a store once when DD had to go. She was maybe 3. I had a bunch of clothes. The lady said I had to take her across the street as their bathroom was not for the public. I politely said oh wow okay. She said I will hold these till you get back. I told her I wasn't carrying my kid all the way across the street to pee just to come back in here and spend my money. I said sorry and left. She looked dumbstruck. It would have been funny if I wasn't in such a hurry. I had a bunch of stuff really and I know it must have sucked to put it all back.

That sounds to me like the best way to change "policy." If I were the saleslady in that situation, and had lost out on a sale because "management" had told me I couldn't let anyone use the restroom, I'd sure be letting them know how their rule is costing them money.

And if I had been the one making the "judgment call" because I didn't feel like cleaning the bathroom (I honestly can't imagine doing that to anyone who needed to use the restroom, though, since I know full well what that's like ) -- well, I guess it would have shown me that it's even more work to have to put all the clothes back, and not even get a commission.

I guess this is what you'd call a "natural consequence."

[octobermom]

having a chid that NEEDS to pee being pregnant ect does not entitle us access to no public bathrooms. I'm sorry the woman was rude and I agree that it would be great nice if people were more cosiderate and maybe thought a little more but if policy says no then it is a no.. The result might mean you child has an accident and maybe to company will choose to change there policy because of this but other than that I really don't see how they were at fault. Nor do I think you did anythign horrid.

[octobermom]

Originally Posted by AlpineMama

Sorry, but I agree with the PP on this one. If you are in a position where you can cater to your overall sense of morality, and decide whether an employer is compassionate enough, then you don't NEED that job.

After he got out of the Army, my DH tried (and failed) to find a minimum wage job - ANY minimum wage job - for about three years. To support us. And he was unable to. I think at that point he would have taken a job that would have been to wear a clown suit and scare babies in strollers if it meant that he could have supported us.

Yup add me to that we are just now comming off a 5 year pretty much jobless time in our lifes there are many things we wouldn't compromise on but enforcing a no bathroom policy is just not on the list of battles I'd die over.

[stickywicket67]

Originally Posted by AlpineMama

Sorry, but I agree with the PP on this one. If you are in a position where you can cater to your overall sense of morality, and decide whether an employer is compassionate enough, then you don't NEED that job.

After he got out of the Army, my DH tried (and failed) to find a minimum wage job - ANY minimum wage job - for about three years. To support us. And he was unable to. I think at that point he would have taken a job that would have been to wear a clown suit and scare babies in strollers if it meant that he could have supported us.

alpine mama- i'm sorry your dh had to look for 3 years for a job! that must have been really really tough. that's so messed up that the Army doesn't give their soldiers any kind of civilian job training or job placement assistance or resume resources, something to help them re enter the civilian workforce!

i am slightly offended though that you assume i don't NEED my job because i feel a sense of compassion for small children and others in pee/poop/puke emergencies. my husband too has had a difficult time with jobs where we live. we live in a small town and his skills don't match the jobs that are available. it's been really tough for him to go from having a great career where he was compensated really well to making sandwiches at 4 am for just above minimum wage w/ no benefits. so as a matter of fact i am the primary breadwinner in our family. i still feel we both have a choice about who to work for and what we do to earn a living.

if i am working for a small family sort of shop (which i am) and my employer told me i was not allowed to let anyone ever use the bathroom i would let them know i had a problem w/ that and let them know why. (bad customer service and just plain mean.) if they still insisted, i'd look elsewhere for employment.

if that shop were even in existence it would be likely that there were other shops for me to go work in. shops like that don't operate in isolation. they tend to be grouped in places where there are other similar shops and businesses. the owner/management should be more concerned with how they are treating their customers. i know am in the shop i manage. that's probably why i'm the manager, because my employer knows i have good sense when it comes to customer service and empowering employees to do the same. it's good for her business. i know if a customer has to leave with a child to go 4 stores down to the public restroom they are probably not coming back.

ftr-i don't go around assuming i can use the restroom in every store i shop in, not at all. i actually assume i cannot. but in a store where i've shopped many times before if we were having an emergency i would think the employees would use good sense and good customer service and let me use it.

i just don't get the playing of devil's advocate every time someone comes on to vent about something. if the employee in the shop from the original post had said "oh no our restroom is broken today!" or just something with some sense of understanding of the urgency of the issue i don't think ann_of_loxley would've been "outraged". the point was the manner and circumstances in which they were told "no".

[mammal_mama]

It's hard to imagine anyone firing someone because they gave good customer service.

For the poster who said she didn't allow it because she didn't expect her staff to clean up the mess if there was one -- I don't imagine she'd fire someone who had compassion and said, "I'll clean up the mess if there is one."

[sweetpea333]

I think the woman should have let the child use the bathroom even if it isn't policy, im sure if she had to tell her employer that a child used the bathroom she wouldn't have been fired... It is a special circumstance...

a little off topic...
When I was 9 months pregnant me and my husband had to meet his boss somewhere to get his paystubs, I urgently needed to use the bathroom and went into the closest place.. a bank. I asked a worker where the bathroom was and they asked if i was a customer I said no, and she said I couldn't use it then... I was in tears and couldn't reply and waddled away looking for somewhere else to go.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

i just don't get the playing of devil's advocate every time someone comes on to vent about something. if the employee in the shop from the original post had said "oh no our restroom is broken today!" or just something with some sense of understanding of the urgency of the issue i don't think ann_of_loxley would've been "outraged". the point was the manner and circumstances in which they were told "no".

Last line of the OP...

Would it have been such a hard and bad thing for them to have let my DS pee in their toilet?

If someone feels the answer to that question is "Yes, because there is more too it then needing to pee." They are responding appropriately. Some people aren't comfortable with lying just to make someone feel better. If they honestly feel the store has no public bathrooms for a reason and there for doesn't need to allow anyone to use it, that's what they will say.

[Tigerchild]

I don't know that it's so much playing "devil's advocate" as it is trying to explain the other side. (as futile as that is, some people are just masochists I guess)

After all, other people on this thread have basically said that anyone not wishing to risk their job or allow any small child to use the restroom if they need it are all heartless b*s.

I don't get all the melodrama sometimes either, but you know, it's a message board. People come here to vent and say what they can't/won't/didn't-at-the-time-think-to say out loud.

I believe it's not exactly shocking that some people who have worked retail might come to defend themselves in general.

And the reality is a lot of things that people SAY they would absolutely do in an imaginary situation they might not if they actually were in that situation. I would hope that nobody would ALWAYS allow a woman and child to use the backstore restroom under ANY circumstance no matter what. And, barring being videotaped (which is always a possibility in today's work environment) I bet there's really nobody that would NEVER EVER EVER NEVER break that policy if A) they wouldn't be caught doing so and B) they felt that it was safe to do so.

I don't see any need to demonize these particular employees. The OP is irritated and frustrated and rightly so, but she ain't omniscient and omnipresent (that she admits to in the post, anyway ) so therefore she doesn't know the whole story or even the why.

[east carolina]

I dunno. I've been in many situations where I or my DS was out and about and needed to pee and I don't assume that a private shop will have a public bathroom. If I ask and they let me use it, I'm grateful, but if they say no, I don't assume that they are mean, I don't take it personally and I look for an alternative. I am also not embarrassed about bodily functions, and will happily pee in the bushes at the park if it doesn't have a bathroom, or if it's too far away and really gross and dirty lol, or rather ewww.

Once I went with DS to a children's shoe shop to get him a pair. It was a store that sold only children's shoes. While we were trying shoes on, DS told me he needed to pee and i asked the saleslady if they had a bathroom he could use. She mumbled something about how they have to go next door and wasn't at all specific or helpful. It didn't phase me one bit. I just scooped DS up and and went outside to the street, leaving all our stuff in the shop, to find a gutter where he happily peed into. When he was done we went back inside, I bought him a pair of shoes. It never occurred to me that I or my child should be entitled to use a shop's employee bathroom or why I should be mad if I ask and they politely explain to me why not.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

i'm not in a position to quit a job but i think everyone is in a position to decide who they will work for. if i had an employer tell me that i was not allowed to let a child or a pregnant woman to ever use the restroom i would look else where for employment. that would speaks volumes to me about 1) their trust of my judgment 2) their compassion for other people

Everyone is not in that kind of position, this isn't utopia. Some areas have a lot of easy to get low wage jobs and some don't. It sounds like you are forming your opinion based on an area that has a lot of job options whereas other people are forming theirs based on the reality in their area. I wouldn't leave a job just because they don't let people pee in their toilets. There are many single mothers in my area who work jobs they hate for many reasosn and they also wouldn't leave their job for a trivial reason. I have however sought other work after having a horrible manager who told us to do one thing while actually meaning for us to do something else then freaked out at us no matter what.

[lilyka]

I used to be part owner in a store that had no public bathrooms but a toilet for the employees. It was a pit. rarely cleaned and stinky. But for heavens sake. if a child had needed to use the bathroom we would have grabbed him for you and ran to the toilet. better that than the floor. and even little ones are embarrassed to wet themselves

That said it was "illegal" because it was not handicap accessible.

I would not shop at a place that did not let you use their bathroom. thats just bad customer service. In a mall I don't expect place to have bathrooms but there had better be ones near by.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

alpine mama- i'm sorry your dh had to look for 3 years for a job! that must have been really really tough. that's so messed up that the Army doesn't give their soldiers any kind of civilian job training or job placement assistance or resume resources, something to help them re enter the civilian workforce!

Actually they do. It just doesn't work out as well for some than others. Depending on where you get to do it and who you know. They definitely need to restructure it though.

[Literate]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Here I am totally blind......I am a conservative Christian, a servant of Jehovah, a hunter of animals, a country bumpkin, a fighter for justice, blunt and honest about EVERYTHING, open minded, and loving. I don't change for anyone!

OT and sorry for my ignorance, but you are blind and you hunt?

[jeca]

Originally Posted by Literate

OT and sorry for my ignorance, but you are blind and you hunt?