"Some people shouldn't have kids."

[frontierpsych]

Is this ALWAYS an insult, when you say it about someone? I've heard it a lot, but I don't think of it as an insult in and of itself, just in the way it's generally used, KWIM?

For instance, I'd say you shouldn't have kids if that obviously does not fit in your priorities, because you will always be striving for something else and start to see your kids as something that hinders your goals. Doesn't make you a bad person, just someone that shouldn't have kids. Stuff like that.


wow, no point, just a thought. I thought I had a point, but I guess I forgot it. Oh well.

[Theoretica]

We have a good family friend (guy) who loves REALLY nice, expensive things, loves to travel the world on a whim, has glass topped (with etching) furniture, and uses a lint roller after his short haired cat...and the list goes on.

He should NOT have children. Granted, he doesn't want them anyways, but I've said that to him before and he just smiles and says NO KIDDING! LOLOL Ironically enough he ADORES my kids, he's a great 'uncle' type.

But I get what you mean When it's said to people who already HAVE kids it's an insult.

Bellevuemama

[Kappa]

And I guess it's sort of an insult because who are you (or anyone) to judge? I mean, it's a human right to have children, not something that some one can dictate to some one else. Many people change after having children, and to tell a single/childless person that they wouldn't be able to change or want to change for a child is a bit presumptuous. Especially since a lot of the changes are temporary until the child becomes an adult him/herself.

[urchin_grey]

Well, IMO, my middle sister shouldn't have kids (at least any time soon). This is what her childrearing game plan consists of:

-finish deployment
-start TTC
-have baby and stay with it for a year
-"give" baby to me or grammy for a year+ during another deployment

Repeat steps 3 and 4 for the next 15+ years.

My step-dad told her that she was out of her mind and they weren't taking her kid - they've already raised their's. I told her sorry, but if you give me a baby for a year or more, you ain't gettin' it back!

[2lilsweetfoxes]

Originally Posted by urchin_grey

Well, IMO, my middle sister shouldn't have kids (at least any time soon). This is what her childrearing game plan consists of:

-finish deployment
-start TTC
-have baby and stay with it for a year
-"give" baby to me or grammy for a year+ during another deployment

Repeat steps 3 and 4 for the next 15+ years.

My step-dad told her that she was out of her mind and they weren't taking her kid - they've already raised their's. I told her sorry, but if you give me a baby for a year or more, you ain't gettin' it back!

From a mom in the military--who happens to be pregnant right now, if someone told me that if she was my "Long Term Family Care Plan Provider/Guardian" and that I would not get the baby back when I returned, then we'd have issues. You'd be taking me to court. And I doubt that the judge would look kindly upon the guardian trying to keep the child permanently. Military service does NOT equal unfit parent. (luckily, I'm married to a civilian who can and will take care of our kids. That said, I know things can happen.).

Oh, and the stay with for a year? In the Army, we are deployable now at 6 months postpartum. So, basically, everyone in the military should delay childbearing until they are retired?

[OkiMom]

2lilsweetfox- I was in when I had DD1 and its hard but worth it! Im lucky to have gotten out right after (I had four months left on contract when I had her) but I would have still had her even if I had more time left in. Good luck with the baby! And No, military service doesn't make you an unfit parent, if anything my husband (whos still in) is the most wonderful father because he knows he has to leave them at times. Hes probably the best father Ive seen.

I would never tell anyone or suggest that anyone shouldnt' be a parent. You dont' know what type of parent they would be. Some of the people I would think would have made the worst parents are great ones and some I thought would be great are aweful parents. Its not for anyone to decide whether someone else deserves to have children

[urchin_grey]

Originally Posted by 2lilsweetfoxes

From a mom in the military--who happens to be pregnant right now, if someone told me that if she was my "Long Term Family Care Plan Provider/Guardian" and that I would not get the baby back when I returned, then we'd have issues. You'd be taking me to court. And I doubt that the judge would look kindly upon the guardian trying to keep the child permanently. Military service does NOT equal unfit parent. (luckily, I'm married to a civilian who can and will take care of our kids. That said, I know things can happen.).

Oh, and the stay with for a year? In the Army, we are deployable now at 6 months postpartum. So, basically, everyone in the military should delay childbearing until they are retired?

Hokay, you took everything I said out of context.

I did not say that military parent equaled unfit. But sorry, no one can convince me that it would be healthy for a child to literally spend YEARS away from both parents its entire childhood. I'm not sure what the point of having children would be if you (general) are going to expect other people to raise them...? (Maybe I should have made it clear, but my sister's husband is also in the army.)

And what I meant by the "not getting it back" thing was that I wouldn't let anyone give me a child to raise for a year in the first place. I'm not strong enough to raise a child for a year+ and then "give it back". Not going to happen.

ETA: And I have no idea what maternity leave is like in the army. That's just what my sister said.

[momz3]

When my husband deployed I saw SEVERAL young single mothers kissing their babies goodbye while they handed them off to a family member...it was heartbreaking I have much respect for them. To be able to fight for our country and raise children. Can't be easy...

[urchin_grey]

Originally Posted by momz3

When my husband deployed I saw SEVERAL young single mothers kissing their babies goodbye while they handed them off to a family member...it was heartbreaking I have much respect for them. To be able to fight for our country and raise children. Can't be easy...

I agree but I'm willing to bet that if they were single young moms, they were doing what they do to make a better life for their child in the long run and have no plans to be gone half their lives. That's a huge leap from letting someone else raise your kid because your job means more to you...

ETA: And this really isn't about military parents. I would say the same thing about my sister if she and her husband both worked 60+ hours a week and they wanted to TTC anyway. I just don't get it. (And I'm a single, working mom myself.)

[urchin_grey]

Oh, and I also wanted to add that I would totally take any of my nieces or nephews for an extended period of time if there was some type of emergency or other extenuating circumstances. I'm not heartless. Its just the "on a year, off a year" thing that really does not appeal to me.

[cappuccinosmom]

I don't like the phrase. It is often used as an insult. And it's a simplistic blanket statement that ignores a lot of other stuff.

My grandparents probably "shouldn't have had kids". And yet, somehow, two drunks who were miserable parents raised my mom. And I wouldn't be here without her. My dh's parents probably "shouldn't have had kids", as they were desperately poor to the point of starvation in Ethiopia. Yet here's my husband, for whom I'm so grateful.

[Maggie05]

I have a close friend from childhood. He is forty. He had a diificult childhood, and his parents were drug users. He has created an admirable life for himself, starting and running his own very successful business.

He doesn't think he wants children, and he really doesn't want to have them. He doesn't think he would be a good husband, and he is not sure he wants to marry. He is not a womanizer, nor is he a bad person at all. He is a good man.

When he talks to me about it, I agree that maybe he shouldn't get married, or have children. Others, like my mother, try to encourage him to get married and have children, but I think she is wrong to do that.

It is not an insult, it is supportive of his life, and his decisions.

[MommaFox]

It depends....
Some people "Shouldn't" have kids because they just can't stand kids. I have a friend who whole-heartedly buys into "Children should be seen and not heard" ideology. SHe doesn't have children
Some people "Shouldn't" have kids because they have mild genetic problems that could be passed on. My DH and I are firmly in that category. But we've got our kids cause we love kids.
Some people "Shouldn't" have children because they want to travel on a moment's notice and see the world. I'm also in this category. I don't travel, but I want to. Even to the next state.. YK? Mostly I want to travel with my kids for educational stuff.
Then there are people who just... really... shouldn't. Because we don't want them passing on thier social issues to children. Screaming children practicing WWE moves in the wal-mart lanes without correction. Parents who use language that makes me blush... with thier kids.
It's totally a contextual thing. It's a statement of fact, and it can be used as an insult. It's the difference between meaing they "shoudln't have kids" and they "shouldn't be allowed to breed"

[AlpineMama]

Look at it from the opposite view, though. Is there anyone who really SHOULD have kids? Like, 100% is the perfect parent, adores everything about their child(ren) and is the model of saintly patience and wisdom 100% of the time? No one really deserves their kids, if we're honest with ourselves, but people keep having them... Usually with decent outcomes.

[siobhang]

I take issue with the entire concept. It smacks too much of "kids as material objects which only the deserving should be allowed". And while on MDC the definition of deserving (on top of "lack of abuse/neglect") also includes GD, extended breastfeeding or no circ , out in the world, most definitions of deserving involve money.

And the lionshare of the judgement on "deserving" is visited on the mother.

However, we are talking about creating new humans for our world. What parents do is a gift to humanity- sure some screw it up, and some kids are screwed up despite the parents. But luckily, humanity is pretty resilliant and most humans turn out pretty okay, often due to an extended community, not just the parents.

If the phrase is "some people shouldn't raise kids" - THAT is a totally different statement. There are some commonly agreed to baselines on how kids need to be raised - with love, food, warm clothes/home, basic security, lack of violence, etc. Add on to that whatever parenting philosophy that the culture supports/demands, and you get variations. But yes, if parents are unwilling (or unable) to provide the baseline (not the next level, which is much more subjective, but baseline), then they should not be entrusted to the care of dependents, be they children, the disabled or elderly, or animals. This is a larger community responsibility to all of humanity.

I think to break it down. The statement "shouldn't have kids" refers to conception/birth - i.e. the creation of a biological offspring. the statement "shouldn't raise kids" refers to the actual act of taking a child and raising it to adulthood. Do not conflate or confuse the two, because eugenics is based on this confusion.

My 2 cents.

[primjillie]

I think they are many people who shouldn't have kids. My good friend at work is raising three of her grandchildren. Her druggie daughter had six children - two are dead because of her drug habit and the third was adopted out at birth because of her drugs. The three remaining that have been adopted by my friend are "drug babies" and have many issues and disorders which will prevent them from living a "normal" life. Raising these children have broken her marriage up and she hasn't seen her daughter in over a year. She doesn't know if she is dead or alive. Her granddaugher cries for her mom every night. Another friend at work is raising 4 of her grandsons from her drug addicted daughter. The oldest grandson has very serious problems from the drugs and won't live until adulthood. So yes, some people definitely should NOT have children. I also believe you shouldn't have children if you can't give them some of the material things that I think all children deserve - food, shelter, love, time, patience, clothes, some activities (sports, lessons, etc.), education and some toys/material items. My children never had tons of things, but we could provide the basics (and to me that includes the above). I know things happen and people come upon tough times, but I do think you should have a plan and a goal when you plan children. Just my opinion.......

[onlyzombiecat]

I just don't think it is ever a nice thing to say to anyone else.

I was told in college by someone that I shouldn't ever have kids. Maybe I shouldn't have at that point. I wasn't planning on it but the judgment stung. I probably didn't look like good mother material.
I later did get pregnant and have a child. It wasn't my plan but I changed quite a bit. My priorities changed. I'm not the worst parent on the planet either.

You could say to someone that they might have to change to deal with some aspects of parenting children without judging that they shouldn't ever have kids.

[phathui5]

So, basically, everyone in the military should delay childbearing until they are retired?

If you're going to be deployed for months or years, I would say yes.

Military service does NOT equal unfit parent.

It doesn't mean that you're an unfit parent when you're home, but when you're not there, well, you're not there.

[mamazee]

Obviously everyone has a right to have children if able. But, really, the world would be a better place if abusive people didn't have kids. So I'd have to agree with the sentiment that some people shouldn't have them. That doesn't mean I think there should be licensing or laws or anything, just that I think there are people who would be best off not having them.

[peainthepod]

My parents were abusive but I'm pretty glad my siblings and I were born. Saying someone who has already had kids "shouldn't have kids" isn't just offensive to the parents, but to their existing children as well.

It's just not a cool thing to say to anyone, really. Who made you (collective you, not anyone specific in this thread) judge?