What would you do if your child was punching another child?

[StarMom2]

Let me first say that for a variety of reasons, I do not practice GD. We are AP in many ways, but not that one. So maybe that affects how I view this situation. We attend an open playgroup on a regular basis, and many of the families there practice GP. There is one boy (around 4yrs old) in particular who can be quite violent. Last time we went he punched my 2 1/2 yr old son at least three times. We aren't talking about a little push, I mean an actual hard punch with a fist or a plastic toy. My son cried and was obviously confused and hurt, and he needed comforting. These punches were not provoked. The mother was aware of what happened and one time she told her son not to punch from accross the room. In my observation, her son is often in physical conflict with other children and I have never seen any consequences. At one point a volunteer brought her son up from the open gym because he had hit my son with a toy. The volunteer seemed upset about it, but the mother did nothing.

I understand that children can be aggressive, my son is certainly not an angel. However, I step in, discuss how we should behave, and there are consequences for violence. I don't want him learning that hitting, pushing, biting, and punching are acceptable social behaviors. As far as I'm concerned, doing nothing teaches kids that it is ok to be violent to get your way.

This incident happened several days ago and it continues to bother me. I would expect at least an acknowledgement or an apology. The mother said nothing to me or my son about it. I didn't make an issue of it either - I just comforted my son. But, I felt like it was rude for the other mother to say nothing at all. I don't want to tell others how to discipline, but at some point behavior is not acceptable. In a few years, this kind of violence could get her son into serious trouble.

What do you all think? How would you respond in this situation?

[Porcelain Interior]

I think the mom you're talking about wasn't really doing GD she was doing non discipline.

If I had a child that was going through an agressive phase there would be one warning, and then we'd leave the situation as the consequence.

[StarMom2]

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

[Joyster]

I'd tell the other child not to punch my son in my most mom voice. I'd try to arrange it so the play group was hosted at my place at the time and tell him that if he punched or hurt anyone else, he'd be asked to leave. That failing, I'd find another play group or just invite a few choice friends over who's children don't behave aggressively.

Everyone has the right to discipline as they please, but if a child is hurting mine and the parent isn't doing anything, I would protect my child. Honestly, people who don't intervene when their child is violent is one of the reasons why we're considering enrolling our child in martial arts, because while it's a punch when they're 3-4, it could be something far worse when their 13-14 and I want my kids able to defend themselves.

[LavenderMae]

If one of my children was punching another child I would physically (while verbally telling to stop) stop them and then talk to them about how it is not okay ect. I have come across this very issue and it really pisses me off when parents to not stop their children from hurting another child. I know we can't always be right there and sometimes the child might get hit again before you make your way there to stop it but just not doing anything (beyond a pathetic don't do that with nothing to back it up) at all is simply not okay.

[dawncayden]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

GD does not mean no discipline. Check out the GD forums and there are many ways to discipline a child while being gentle, non manipulative and not using physical force.

If my son was in a punching phase I would be right beside him during a playgroup, ready to intervene. He would get one warning and I'd probably remove him from the situation (a time in) for a bit, we would make sure the other child is okay, and if he did it again we would again see if the other child is okay, then we would leave.

I'd call myself a relaxed parent where as, I like to see if children can work it out on there own...but with hitting and punching that isn't the case. But it only works to be a relaxed parent if other parents are on board with that too, otherwise it seems like your neglectful.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

Of course there's a difference.

[Mama Mko]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

Yes. Gentle Discipline means teaching your child what is appropriate in a gentle way.

From the Gentle Discipline Forum Guidelines: "Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems."

It doesn't mean no discipline. I definitely use consequences with my kids and I practice gentle discipline.

If my child was punching your child, I would stop him, probably by physically picking him up and carrying him away from your child. I would tell him "We do not hit people. We hit pillows, beds, punching bags. We do not hit people." I would apologize to you and ask if your child was okay. Then I would watch my son. If he did it again, we would go home immediately.

I'm sorry that happened to you. That really stinks.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

There is a difference, but honestly most people I've met IRL (in 3 states, different sizes communities) who say that they practice GD really do seem to not discipline at all. All the people who seem to be excellent with GD are online.

[onlyzombiecat]

Gentle discipline is discipline.

However, I step in, discuss how we should behave, and there are consequences for violence.

You seem to use some GD techniques yourself since you don't immediately scream at or spank your child.

In the situation you describe in sounds like the child is getting very little guidance. That isn't what I think GD is.

If my child were hitting I would stop her and be supervising closely. My child would be taking a break. We would be role playing interactions before playgroup. If it happened every playgroup we would stop going because clearly that setting is not working out at that time.
My dd learned early that we do not hit.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060200.asp
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=36

[Breeder]

When J went through his hitting ph

The first punch:
1) I would first physically seperate my child from the child he was hitting.

2) I would remind him of our rules: hands are not for hitting, punching hurts people, we don't hurt people, we treat others the way we wish to be treated...etc etc.

3) I would take him back to the child who he hurt. I would ask the other child if he was hurt and I would tell him I was sorry he was hurt. I would offer to get him a band aid if it would make him feel better. If the child said yes I would help J put the band aid on the kid... (I always emphasized taking care of the hurt one) which generally prompted J to say sorry to the child on his own.

The second punch:

Repeat the above 1,2 and 3.

Then I would explain that because he can't play respectfully, we would have to leave.

I would then briefly apologize to the other child's parent on my way out.

There would not be a third punch.


If you are teaching your child that hitting is not acceptable through words, not spanking him, not shaming him..... YOU are practicing a form of GD as well.

[Breeder]

Originally Posted by theretohere

There is a difference, but honestly most people I've met IRL (in 3 states, different sizes communities) who say that they practice GD really do seem to not discipline at all. All the people who seem to be excellent with GD are online.

I have the opposite experience. All of my friends and all of the parents I know from J's school practice GD (including the teachers in the classrooms - I feel so lucky for that) and they are great at it.

I've only met ONE person who took GD to mean NO D..... she and her kid (who was fond of hitting other kids) were actually asked to leave more than one playgroup because of this behavior.

[StarMom2]

I'll clarify my statement about not practicing GD. If my child is aggressive with another child I intervene immediately, we discuss gentle touch, talk about how the other child is sad, apologize, and practice gentle touch if appropriate. Usually there is no second incident. With a second incident, he would get a time-out with me next to him discussing the behavior. He would often be restrained in a stroller or high chair and given a snack because he is more likely to act up if he is hungry. However, not all of my techniques would be considered GD.

I would not expect this parent to discipline the way I do, but I was a little appauled and insulted that there was no response at all. I feel like I need to take some measures to protect my son, but I don't know what exactly to do if this parent does not practice discipline.

[mama2mygirl]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

Ok - one of the problems I have with GD is that my observation has been it means no discipline. So, there is a difference?

I use GD or loving guidance and I have rules and consequences. A mother watching her child punch another child and doing nothing is not GD. It's lazy.
To me, GD is having rules but explaining them and enforcing them in a respectful way.

[StarMom2]

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I certainly do not expect most people on this board to agree with all of my discpline choices. I absolutely don't think I am perfect, and I am always trying to evaluate my discisions as a parent and do what I believe is best for my children. I am sure there are "experts" and studies out there that fall on both sides of this fence.

The issue I am having is what to do when my child is punched by another child whose mother does nothing.

I am pleased to learn that GD does not mean no discipline. And I am open to learning more about what GD really is and implement more of those practices if they are effective.

[DevaMajka]

I am very GD and in general non-punitive. I would have taken ds's hands (ie, physically stopped him from any more hitting), and been very clear, in a stern voice, "Do NOT hit" etc. I probably would have added that it hurts, etc. This has always been all it takes for my ds- I have a definite "I mean it" attitude going on about this.
Oh yeah, and I'd definitely apologize to the other kid and the mom.
That would be the first time. If it happened again, I'd either be on top of him the entire time we were around other kids, or I'd not go to playdates for a while.
Hitting anyone is NOT cool, and I certainly do not tolerate hurting other people or animals (or other people's property).

[Breeder]

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You sound like an awesome mom. Any mother who re-evaluates what they are doing in regards to their kids and tries to keep learning more and growing as a person, is (in my opinion) doing good by their children.

I have always practiced GD, and I by no means consider myself perfect... you don't have to be perfect to avoid spanking. But I have to say I believe that there is no loving way to hit someone, regardless of what any expert says. And you don't HAVE to spank, because many spirited children have been raised with boundaries and manners and respect without being spanked.
When we know better we do better. I hope you can research and find some alternatives to that last resort spanking, since you hate doing it.

As for the parent of the child who was hitting your dear boy, I think sometimes people just decide they don't want to spank, but then they don't know what to do instead and so just do nothing instead. Which doesn't do anyone any favors.

[tinyblackdot]

Uh...oh

If there was a child that was hitting my kid at a play group, i would either 1) keep my kid away from the hitting kid 2) say something to the other child like "hitting isnt nice, if you get aggrivated or mad, we can use our words, ok? and then give him a hug, and then redirect the children to something else.3) not go to the playgroup anymore.

[StarMom2]

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Ugh! I am ABSOLUTELY not saying that the other mother should physically discipline her son! I am also not saying that I advocate for spanking. I am just stating my experience. Obviously, this is a sensitive issue here and I was honestly trying to stay away from it. I just wanted some advice on what to do if my child is being hurt by another child whose mother does nothing. And, I was also hoping to hear that my experience of no discipline = gentle discipline was not necessarily always true.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by StarMom2

I would not expect this parent to discipline the way I do, but I was a little appauled and insulted that there was no response at all. I feel like I need to take some measures to protect my son, but I don't know what exactly to do if this parent does not practice discipline.

I would be, as well. Like I said, I'm definitely GD, so obviously I have no problem with others who are GD as well. But I would be totally upset and appalled if a child HIT my kid, and didn't get any discipline (in the form of talking to them in a meaningful way, taking them aside, redirecting to a calmer activity...something).
I'd also be very upset if the child or parent didn't acknowledge it, apologize, or otherwise try to make amends.