What to do for toddler tantrums?

[Amylcd]

Here's the situation - We went to the store today, DH and older kids went in, 2 year old and I stayed in the car because we are both extremely sick. 2 year old decided she wanted to go in and SCREAMED/CRIED when we did not let her. A "I'm getting murdered, help me" scream - everyone stopped to look, one lady very clearly took down my license plate number . If I had not been on the verge of passing out/vomiting, I would have gotten out and explained the situation to her. I tried to make DD stop crying, everything I could possibly think of -getting her out of her carseat and letting her sit in the front with me, letting her play with my camera and purse (usually works wonderfully), toys, cuddling (very bad idea), even getting out of the car to walk around a bit - where she proceeded to scream and reach towards the store making me almost drop her (I was so sick and dizzy, this was not a good idea and it just made things worse), etc. Everything I could possibly think of, that has worked before was not working now - she did this for 20+ minutes. I would blame it on her illness, but these tantrums have been getting more and more common, this being the absolute worse - she does not stop until she gets her way or "cries it out".
NOTHING I do seems to calm her down.

Basically, I'm looking for ideas for next time. (Do not say that I should have stayed home, it was absolutely necessary for us both to go). Everyone here seems to have perfectly behaved children, and mine are not even close .
How do you deal with toddler tantrums that are this extreme? My older children were always very easily distracted and would get interested in something else quickly. This baby is very persistent.

(ignore spelling errors, i'm too sick to even bother to check)

(more info because I know someone will ask - could not call DH to come out so we could leave, had to get medication and no cellphones, could not take vomiting baby and vomiting mama into the store).

[2xy]

Let me just say that this is the Internet. People can say whatever they want on here....doesn't make it true. I doubt that everyone here has perfectly behaved children.

My older boy was....ahem....spirited. He threw some god-awful fits in public places, and I received many a glare from other people.

I will be honest and say that I started out as a pretty gentle mama, and I'd never heard of "gentle discipline" as a specific method. I just knew that yelling, spanking, and punishing weren't my cup of tea. My gentle ways did not work with my son. Nothing worked with my son except to let him throw his fit until he got tired of throwing a fit. Idealistically, GD was where I was at. Realistically, well....

Choose your battles wisely. If you absolutely don't believe that what your child wants is in her best interests, then hold your ground. Say yes as much as possible. Try to think ahead in order to avoid creating situations that you know will frustrate your child.

Thank goodness DS2 was cheerful and pleasant!

I hope you all feel better soon.

[Amylcd]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Let me just say that this is the Internet. People can say whatever they want on here....doesn't make it true. I doubt that everyone here has perfectly behaved children.

My older boy was....ahem....spirited. He threw some god-awful fits in public places, and I received many a glare from other people.

I will be honest and say that I started out as a pretty gentle mama, and I'd never heard of "gentle discipline" as a specific method. I just knew that yelling, spanking, and punishing weren't my cup of tea. My gentle ways did not work with my son. Nothing worked with my son except to let him throw his fit until he got tired of throwing a fit. Idealistically, GD was where I was at. Realistically, well....

Choose your battles wisely. If you absolutely don't believe that what your child wants is in her best interests, then hold your ground. Say yes as much as possible. Try to think ahead in order to avoid creating situations that you know will frustrate your child.

Thank goodness DS2 was cheerful and pleasant!

I hope you all feel better soon.

I had asked a similar question in the past, and the majority of the answers were "Why didn't you stay home?". (As in, you would not have this problem if you gave in to your childs every want. If the child does not want to go.. do not go. So, I feel as though I must explain every little detail to get good/realistic advice.

I definitely hold my ground, I just feel like a horrible parent doing it. I suppose I'm looking for reassurance that "crying it out" in this situation is okay, and not harming her

[2xy]

Well, frankly, I really don't know why you didn't just stay home, because you didn't say why. You just said it was necessary that you both go. Not judging you or putting you down....just don't understand why the two of you went along to the store if you were just going to stay in the car, anyway. Did you go because your daughter wanted to go? If so, does it seem sensible to take two vomiting people out into the world for no good reason?

I am not as gentle as many mamas on this forum. I do believe in solving problems at the lowest level possible, and as gently as possible. That being said, I also realize that some children will be inconsolable at times, and that you can only do so much to comfort them. You know the old saying....an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....that's especially true with dramatic children. Of course, not all upset can be prevented, and if your child cannot be comforted on occasion, I do not believe that it's the end of the world. I can't imagine the pressure and strain that comes from feeling responsible for a child's every emotion.

However, I don't understand allowing people who haven't yet learned good judgement (small children) to make somewhat important decisions that affect other people. If this is a TCS thing, I honestly just can't identify with it.

[ewe+lamb]

Well you don't say WHY you had to go, so my initial reaction was 'why did you go?' - I hate going anywhere when ill, no matter with a sick 2 yo in arms as well, but anyway my feeling is that having a blip moment in the life of a toddler is part and parcel of life, not easy when we're in the middle of it but you know you're doing all you can to help a child who can't comprehend why she can't go with the older kids = it's not fair, they don't see the illness as a stumbling block. As for folk looking at you - well they'll see that you're doing all you can to calm and console your wee one, once with my dd I had to get off the metro in rush hour in central park so that she could get over her blip moment we missed another 3 metros and the bus - it was a nightmare and all the comments and stares were awful but we just had to ride it through - an awful moment in my parenting journey, but at the same time quite consoling for both of us - once we had done that nothing was going to phase us - YKWIM? There's a great (small) book called 'Love + Limits' worth getting a hold of. Can I just also say that no one has perfect children and no one is a perfect parent - just doesn't happen. Try not to compare your youngest dd to the other two especially in blip moments, it's just her, her personality, pick your battles, stand your ground (gently) it'll pass, it's just not nice when in the middle. The one thing I found very helpful was removing dd from the situation, especially in public, take dd into a quiet corner so you can protect her from stares and comments. Good luck and hugs I know it's not easy.

[Amylcd]

Well, frankly, I really don't know why you didn't just stay home, because you didn't say why. You just said it was necessary that you both go. Not judging you or putting you down....just don't understand why the two of you went along to the store if you were just going to stay in the car, anyway

Because we were at the hospital prior to that, and it is a 45 minute drive each way. The pharmacy is less than 1 mile from the hospital. I would hope that people would trust me when I say it was necessary... but obviously not.

[Shera971]

Luckily my DS has had very few of these and never out in public... great I've just jinxed myself LOL

Anywhoo, on the occasions when comforting him hasn't worked I've taken the approach of "I understand that you are very upset right now and I'm only making it worse. I'll let be in the living room when you are ready for me." I look at it that sometimes I get mad at things (work, whatever) and sometimes it feels good to just be ANGRY. I don't want people to make it better, I just want to vent and that's what I suspect DS is doing. I don't go far (we live in a bungalow) but I give him his space. If his tantrum were to get worse I would go back in but otherwise he calms down on his own, either calls for me or comes to me and we have a big cuddle and talk about why he was so upset.

I think what the OP did was fine. IMO I think that when a toddler is having one of those tantrums, "giving in" would be the worst thing you can do and would only encourage similar behaviour in the future. If you can encourage your toddler to calm down and discuss the situation before changing your mind (if that's possible) is always best I think. But sometimes a toddler will just be a toddler and need to have a tantrum and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

[krystyn33]

IMO that just sounds like one of those really lousy situations you can't do anything about but endure. Clearly you tried your best under the circumstances, but it is hard enough to be Wondermom when you feel well.

As far as tantrums go, prevention helps in terms of trying to get good sleep and eating often enough to avoid blood sugar swings. DS is always more tantrum prone when tired or cranky hungry.

I struggle a bit to keep in mind that his tantrums are not a sign of any parenting failure on my part. It is especially hard in public, when it feels like people are judging you that way. But he wants to do and say things outside his current reach and this gets him pretty upset. He gets even more upset when I ask "What's wrong?" because for one his emotion has completely overwhelmed his verbal capabilities and from his perspective I'm supposed to be fairly omniscient and omnipotent and he doesn't appreciate my failings!

So when he gets in tantrum mode I try to do what I would want a loving parent to do for me in the same situation: I describe how he is feeling with empathy, offer affection and nursing if he wants it and am otherwise just "with" him as he processes his big feelings the best he is able at this age. If we're in public or pressured for time, I confess that I will try redirection when I see one heading on to focus him elsewhere, hoping to avoid the meltdown, but when this doesn't work all I can do is respond as i described. And take lots of deep breaths myself! It's not easy to stay calm with a screaming child, especially with time and social pressures on you.

[leafwood]

So, if it's not a typical happening I would really chalk it up to the illness and timing, etc. Tantrums happen, any place, any time. My dd once had such a horrible tantrum at a sunday garden planting event in our community that I had to drive her home as she was screaming and almost vomiting from the hysteria. Nice! It was interesting to see the way people reacted. Most were just minding their own business, but my parents were there and their initial reaction was to totally give into whatever she wanted (I can't even remember now but it was really not appropriate). I knew she was exhausted b/c she had slept over at a friends house the night before (1st time @4y) and I completely felt that was the issue. So, I got her contained, drove her home, she finished tantruming, we discussed/processed and moved on. It was really stressful for me b/c it was in public but if people are so shocked by it I say they are lucky to have never experienced it first hand!

Hope your household is feeling better!

[Amylcd]

He gets even more upset when I ask "What's wrong?" because for one his emotion has completely overwhelmed his verbal capabilities and from his perspective I'm supposed to be fairly omniscient and omnipotent and he doesn't appreciate my failings!

This is what happens with my DD, she is only 20 months, btw (I suppose when I say a general "2" some might think closer to three). Her verbal skills are already behind where the majority of children her age are. Her only way to let me know what she wants is through signing, and during a tantrum, all signing is gone.

I think that when a toddler is having one of those tantrums, "giving in" would be the worst thing you can do and would only encourage similar behaviour in the future. If you can encourage your toddler to calm down and discuss the situation before changing your mind (if that's possible) is always best I think. But sometimes a toddler will just be a toddler and need to have a tantrum and there's nothing you can do to stop it

In this case, it was impossible to give in, and usually the majority of her tantrums are over things that she absolutely can not do for her safety (climbing on the kitchen counters, being one example). Because she is so young, and has no way to communicate her feelings by speaking, we can not talk about the situation. I, of course, talk to her to try to calm her down but usually we must re-direct her attention elsewhere.

[mamazee]

My opinion on tantrums is that they're just something to wait out. I know bystanders look and watch, but that's just an annoyance and not part of the problem. People have short-term memories about their own kids.

I read in some parenting book (maybe Hold On To Your Kids?) something that made sense to me about children not having an understanding of the concept of futility until they're older - that there are times where for whatever reason things simply won't go their way as much as everyone would like it. And until they understand that, they will have tantrums when they don't get their way. (Not all tantrums are due to this but IMO some are.) Anyway, looking at it that way changed my perspective. Now I try to comfort her and empathize with her when she doesn't get what she wants, but I no longer feel like I have to get her what she wants or even that it's desirable to. If I'm comforting her and empathizing, I am not letting her "cry it out", which happens if she's having to go through emotional turmoil alone. I talk about me and my daughter because she did have a lot of tantrums, but it's a rare thing now - only when she's coming down with something or didn't sleep well, etc.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by mamazee

My opinion on tantrums is that they're just something to wait out. I know bystanders look and watch, but that's just an annoyance and not part of the problem. People have short-term memories about their own kids.

:

Tantrums happen. You can try to prevent them or head them off, but sometimes they just happen. IME you resign yourself to being the mom with the wailing, flailing kid a few times...

-Angela

[nina_yyc]

I also remember something about this in Hold On To Your Kids - the part I remember is that tantrums happen when kids react to futility with anger, and what you are supposed to do is acknowledge the feeling and help them move from anger (you won't let me do this) to sadness (I'm sad I can't do this.) I am sure there is a way better explanation in the book. But the gist of it is that sometimes toddlers need to cry to really understand "no." You are probably used to AP-ing a baby whose wants = needs, but with a toddler it's different, and your DD is surely secure enough by now that she relates the bad feelings to the situation, not to her relationship with you. It's the age too...she's too old for some GD techniques and too young for others. Wait it out for a few weeks... my DD is just two and her verbal abilities have improved exponentially in the last few weeks.

[elizawill]

hugs to you. believe me, no one here has perfect children. if they did, they certainly wouldn't be hanging around this forum, lol. my son has had tantrums since he was about 8 or 9 months old (seriously!). he would bang his head as a baby when he was upset. hard! as he got older, his tantrums were so intense. there was nothing i could do to help him get through it, and i would feel completely helpless. i just had to ride it out & be there when he was ready for me to hold him (if i tried to talk to him or touch him during his tantrum, he'd kick or hit). he'll be 5 soon, and i can honestly say his tantrums are finally gone. he will still have a meltdown sometimes, but he is finally able to reason and we can work through what's upsetting him much more easily now. i wish i had advice for you, but with my son, we just had to ride out the storm. here's an excellent article on tantrums though:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../tantrums.html


oh, and fwiw, i have totally been in your shoes having my child tantrum in public. one day he had a tantrum over a toy at target (i wouldn't buy it) i had to carry him to the car and he was kicking, yelling, hitting, etc. people were staring at me like i was a mean abusive mother. i wanted to melt into the floor. it was awful. it's happened to me a dozen times with my son, and each time was a unique and terrible experience, lol. thank god my dd is easy breezy. sure she gets upset, but i have always been able to console her or help her through it. she's never said she hated me or called me names, or hit me, etc. she listens to me when i ask her to do something. she's really delightful. my son is so amazing and wonderful, but he's just now starting to learn how to communicate, be gentle, express himself with words and so forth. i seriously adore him, but he is definitely challenging.

[Humnmilk4Humnbabes]

I'm so confused why people even need to know why you were out since that had nothing to do with your question? Anywhooo ... SO we have dealt with tantrums when my 4.5 year old son was smaller (2-3ish). It was never the most fun *but* I had read a bit about tantrums before he entered this age and that helped.

Whenever he started to have one (and it was always in public- yay!) I would look into his eyes and tell him that I understood he was feeling very strongly and I would give him permission to have one. "Yes, I know you are mad. I'm really sorry you are feeling this way. If I could make it go away I would but we can't do ____ right now, so just feel your feelings and I'll be right here for a hug. Just go ahead and cry. I need to cry too sometimes when I'm sad/mad."

It always helped him to be reassured that he was feeling normal things- I mean, adults have temper tantrums too- they just come in different forms. I would sit right down on the floor with him and hold him until it was over and he felt better. He would always look up at me, wipe his tears away and smile. Then we would get up and continue shopping.

It is frustrating to go through this in public but I would just say to myself, "all these people staring did the same thing to their parents." Sometimes we got looks but I would just smile like it wasn't a big deal and/or focus all my attention on my son. The more I acted like it wasn't a big deal- the more I felt like it wasn't a big deal.

And tantrums really aren't a big deal. It feels like they are- but it is just your toddlers way of negotiating their world. Their brain development does not allow them to process emotion & reason the same speed or complexity as we are able to. So it truly is impossible for a child to stop, breath and not freak out.

Allowing them to "freak out" but setting boundaries is really healthy for you as a family. Soon the teens years will arrive and you will have already set the basis of "mommy & daddy are a team and we stick to what we say."

Oh! Another thing, my kids are *so* not perfect- I know I "screw up" on a daily basis. I just keep telling myself 'by the time my kids get to college- they will be weaned, know how to go to the bathroom, dress themselves, cook their own meals, etc, etc ...' If not, they can send me the pyschcologist's bill later on.

Good luck! I hope y'all feel better!

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by Amylcd

these tantrums have been getting more and more common, this being the absolute worse - she does not stop until she gets her way or "cries it out".
NOTHING I do seems to calm her down.

Welcome to the "terrible twos". Some children have a hard time learning that they can't always get what they want, and in utter frustration and rage they have no other way of expressing it than screaming.

Just stay calm, and don't give in just to stop the tantrum. That will teach her that tantrums will get her what she wants and they will be non-stop or harder to eliminate. Intermittent reward makes a behavior stronger, so one lapse can start a whole flurry of tantrums. As intense as it was, my niece's tantrum stage only lasted a few months because neither of her parents would give in.

Get with your husband and decide what's worth the tantrums, and what isn't. And tough it out. Parenting a strong-willed child isn't easy, but once you get into the late pre-school years and the kid can communicate better, it gets easier. You might not be able to control them, but it's easier to aim them at something constructive.

FWIW, my reaction on seeing a situation as you described would be "that poor kid's having a meltdown", not "that nasty mother can't control her kid".

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Amylcd

Because we were at the hospital prior to that, and it is a 45 minute drive each way. The pharmacy is less than 1 mile from the hospital. I would hope that people would trust me when I say it was necessary... but obviously not.

I don't know what other threads you've encountered this on, but on this thread, you began by saying that you absolutely had to go....and then in your next post it sounded like you only went because your DD demanded to go. That is the only reason I questioned it. Apparently, giving in to your DD's demands had nothing to do with your trip to the store, but the two sounded connected to me. It has nothing to do with not trusting you. It has to do with the manner of your posts.

Originally Posted by Humnmilk4Humnbabes

I'm so confused why people even need to know why you were out since that had nothing to do with your question?

Because it doesn't make sense to be out when you're dreadfully ill, with a dreadfully ill toddler, if you don't need to be. Her initial posts made it sound like she didn't need to be. Maybe the information about the hospital would have been better given in the first post.

[quietserena]

for the OP.

That was a hard situation and you handled it the way most of us would have. Probably better, because I think I would have burst into tears and had a lil tantrum of my own.

[Amylcd]

Because it doesn't make sense to be out when you're dreadfully ill, with a dreadfully ill toddler, if you don't need to be

You are right, it does not make sense to be out in that situation if you do not need to be - so if someone states that they were out, and says that it was absolutely necessary - you should take their word that was necessary and leave it at that.

[elizawill]

i just realized your toddler was as sick as you were. honestly, i'd just chalk her behavior up to that personally. if she felt as awful as you, i'm sure her tantrum stemmed from feeling terrible, yk? there's nothing you could have done to prevent this imo or even stop it for that matter.

anyway...hope things are better now & everyone is feeling well again.