Can't find raw milk, and can I pick your brains about whole foods?

[forestrymom]

We are working on getting a completely whole diet. We already have been eating mostly whole foods because that's how we were raised, but we have fallen off course on some things, and some things aren't readily available. Anyway, we don't eat much from boxes, we do eat some things like organic canned tomatoes and tomato sauce, but that's pretty much it. We do use flour, but mostly whole wheat, and I do most of our breadmaking and such.

Anyway, we really want to switch to raw milk and raw milk products, but its illegal here in Montana to sell raw milk. I would love to hear some alternatives/solutions to this. I am considering a milk cow, but without being able to sell some of it I'm not sure how we would afford the extra milk. We do'nt really drink that much--dh doesn't like milk, and the kids are both still nursing, so only drink a bit. We do eat a LOT of yogurt, sour cream, butter, cheese, etc, though.

So what do other people who can't get raw milk do?

[PaulaJoAnne]

I am guessing you do not live near any of the Montana dairies that do have cow share programs? www.realmilk.com
The sale of raw milk is illegal in nearly all states, but cow shares are generaly allowed.
Even if there is one an hour or more away, one can often find a tandem system of getting it each week. Possibly the farmer can give you a name of someong that lives more your direction that could pick up your portion, and then you could get it at their house.

Meanwhile, WAPF has an excellent shopping guide with all the "best, good and avoid" foods listed in it.
For example, if you can find find the Tillamook Dairy brand in your stores, it is considered a good compromise. All the cows that provide milk for this company are pasture fed, and the cheese is cultured, rather than pastureized.
Kerry Gold is an excellent compromise brand for butter.
You can make your own yogurt. Buy organic milk to make it with.

Instead of a cow, you can get a couple of goats. Far more economical.
Have them on a schedule. Have one milking, and one dry and pregnant, then reverse when the second one freshens.
You can sell the babies. Different cultures eat young goat, as it is very similiar to lamb.
Any extra milk you have can be made into cheese.
My mom used to make the best squeaky goat cheese.
Do research the different kinds of goats carefully. Some give a better tasting milk than others.
Also look carefully at what kind of pasture they would be on.
Goats are foragers. Thistles, bark, wild onions or garlic. No matter, they will eat it. Ours loved Banana peels....but we had to be carefull how much they were allowed to eat.
The milk will often have an overtone of the foods they are fed.
And above all, do not keep a Buck.
Your milk WILL taste skunky if one is nearby.
Its best to take the nanny to be serviced at another farm.
Hope this helps
Paula

[dogmom327]

If you don't have another family (or 2 or 3) to share the milk with, I'd definitely look into goats. They can be more like pets and are very inexpensive to feed in comparison to a cow. I've heard goats can be fed for around $15 a month and can yield .75 - 1 gallon of milk a day. Should be enough for a family and maybe even some extra for making cheese, etc.

[walkerinthewoods]

It is probably cheaper to have your own cow, or goats, judging by what a lot of people are paying for raw milk. If you have the land I would definitely say to look into it.

If you find you have a lot of milk left over after making all your dairy products, then you can always give it to your other animals. If you have room for a cow or goats then you should have chickens. Chickens love milk and it will in turn get you some really nice eggs and meat.

[WuWei]

In the short term, I'd make organic, unhomogenized, pasteurized milk kefir with real kefir grains. Cow or goat milk, whichever you can find unhomogenized.

Are you grinding your own grains and soaking them before baking? That will increase nutrition significantly above pre-ground flours. The Sue Gregg blender batter method is easy and delicious: http://www.suegregg.com/cookbooks/WholeGrainBaking.pdf

What about bone broths? Again, huge nutritional benefits, especially if you can get organic, pastured animals. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/broth.html

Do you have chickens? Your own eggs could be fairly easy and lovely.

Those are probably the easiest ways to increase whole foods that I could think of. Oh, kombucha also!


Pat

[forestrymom]

Thanks for the responses. I am looking into goats, and we have the area to have one. But what kind of cheese can I make and how hard is it? Dd eats a lot of cheese (all Tillamook, because it tastes the best, and I guess its good for other reasons too ).

I am going to have chickens (we aren't actually living on our property as we are in the process of building the house).

I actually prefer the idea of a cow, because I know what it takes to take care of a cow, we could raise the calf for beef, and I have never been around goats much. I just think for as little as we drink and use, a cow would be too much.

[forestrymom]

The nearest unhomogenized milk is 120 miles . What's kefir and why should I be consuming it? :

I just started doing my own stocks--well, my first attempt was today and it was delicious. We already eat only organic free range chickens and their eggs. We eat only organic beef when we eat it, but we mostly eat sage hens, wild ducks, antelope, elk and deer, all of which are by nature organic.

Tell me more about buying grains and soaking them. What would I then use the grains for?

This is swell!!!

[WuWei]

This thread has everything you've ever wanted to know about kefir (and recipes): http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=203282

Basically, kefir is like a liquid yogurt, with about 5 times more beneficial probiotics. And it is easy and much less expensive than bottled probiotics.

Soaking grains is beneficial to neutralize phytic acid which makes them less digestible and binds with the vitamins and minerals, making them less bio-available. We use whole grains in baking.

Whole grain rye, wheat, or buckwheat (10%) were added to cereal-legume-based complementary food mixtures, and phytic acid was shown to be completely degraded in a relatively short time (1.5 to 3 h) when incubated at optimal conditions for cereal phytase.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

You want to soak in an acid medium. Throw in 1-2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (or kefir, or lemon juice) per cup of water for 12-24 hours. For oats, I'd heard to soak for at least 24 hours. By adding the rye/wheat/buckwheat, the phytase neutralizes the phytic acid much more quickly. Without the rye/wheat/buckwheat the phytic acid is still about 75% at 24 hours, which blocks absorption of magnesium, iron, zinc, etc.
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c...porridges.html
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c.../Chapter13.pdf

Quick 101 on soaking grains: http://www.passionatehomemaking.com/...g-soaking.html


Pat

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

This thread has everything you've ever wanted to know about kefir (and recipes): http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=203282

Basically, kefir is like a liquid yogurt, with about 5 times more beneficial probiotics. And it is easy and much less expensive than bottled probiotics.

Soaking grains is beneficial to neutralize phytic acid which makes them less digestible and binds with the vitamins and minerals, making them less bio-available. We use whole grains in baking.

Whole grain rye, wheat, or buckwheat (10%) were added to cereal-legume-based complementary food mixtures, and phytic acid was shown to be completely degraded in a relatively short time (1.5 to 3 h) when incubated at optimal conditions for cereal phytase.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

You want to soak in an acid medium. Throw in 1-2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (or kefir, or lemon juice) per cup of water for 12-24 hours. For oats, I'd heard to soak for at least 24 hours. By adding the rye/wheat/buckwheat, the phytase neutralizes the phytic acid much more quickly. Without the rye/wheat/buckwheat the phytic acid is still about 75% at 24 hours, which blocks absorption of magnesium, iron, zinc, etc.
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c...porridges.html
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c.../Chapter13.pdf

Quick 101 on soaking grains: http://www.passionatehomemaking.com/...g-soaking.html


Pat

Wow! Thank you so much! I know this probably seems like a stupid question, but when you say "whole grains" how do you buy that? Where? I assume not in a regular grocery store? My options for groceries are pretty limited. What does it look like? And does it then need to be dried and ground in order to use it?

I will read up on kefir, but we do buy probiotics and if I could get the same properties cheaper, it would be worth it!

[PaulaJoAnne]

Need a source for grains?
www.wheatmontana.com
We get all our grains form them, here in Alaska via a local grain depot.
You can purchase different flours from them, until you can get your own grain mill. I use the Bosch grain mill and oats flaker, since that was more economical for us when we got the Bosch.
Sally Fallon recommends the Jupiter mill.
Check out www.pocketsofthefuture.com.
They have lots of videos on grains, Traditional foods, animals, hand washing clothes, etc.
We love the info they have!

Quick question. How many acres do you have?
You said you would have room for one goat. One cow needs a minimum of three acres of pasture, and one goat needs far less.
Just curious...
Paula

[dogmom327]

Depending on where you are in Montana, I believe Azure Standard delivers out there. They often have good prices.

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by PaulaJoAnne

Need a source for grains?
www.wheatmontana.com
We get all our grains form them, here in Alaska via a local grain depot.
You can purchase different flours from them, until you can get your own grain mill. I use the Bosch grain mill and oats flaker, since that was more economical for us when we got the Bosch.
Sally Fallon recommends the Jupiter mill.
Check out www.pocketsofthefuture.com.
They have lots of videos on grains, Traditional foods, animals, hand washing clothes, etc.
We love the info they have!

Quick question. How many acres do you have?
You said you would have room for one goat. One cow needs a minimum of three acres of pasture, and one goat needs far less.
Just curious...
Paula

I only use Wheat Montana, but are their grains soaked? I'm just a little bit confused about the soaking part--and what the grains look like prior to soaking. I'm assuming they don't look like flour, right? So you buy something that looks like a kernel of some sort and then soak it, dry it and grind it? I'm sorry--I know whole foods is supposed to be about knowing where your foods come from, but I can honestly say I've never seen the grains whole, kwim?

And we have 20 acres.

Azure Standard doesn't deliver here, but my SIL orders about every other month and I buy sucanat, maple syrup, oils, etc, in bulk there. You have to have a $400 minimum.

[Koalamom]

You may think there isn't raw milk available, but there almost always is.
I would first check out realmilk.com, and if nothing there works, then go to your states website for organic certification. They have a list of farmers that are organic certified, and then start calling all of the ones in your area. Ask them if they will sell to you. Most likely you will only get one yes out of all the calling, but that is all you need.

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

You may think there isn't raw milk available, but there almost always is.
I would first check out realmilk.com, and if nothing there works, then go to your states website for organic certification. They have a list of farmers that are organic certified, and then start calling all of the ones in your area. Ask them if they will sell to you. Most likely you will only get one yes out of all the calling, but that is all you need.

According to realmilk.com the closest is over 200 miles away. I sent an email to the local westonaprice chapter leader and am waiting to hear back. The thing is that where we live is so rural, and I know pretty much everyone within a 60 mile radius, so I would know if there was someone with a milk cow. I am working on my options, though.

[WuWei]

Try Local Harvest also: http://www.localharvest.org/search.j...-1&nm=raw+milk

What about goat's milk?

Whole grains look like dry rice, basically. The blender grinding method is that you just soak the amount of grain you need to make flour. I think it is about 1cup grain yields about 1 1/2cup flour. You add the liquid, grind the grains in the blender and soak overnight and regrind again in the morning. The soaking softens the grain, and it grinds fairly easily in the blender (3 minutes). This works when the liquid in the recipe equals the flour. Pancakes, waffles, muffins, quick breads.

For making bread, you need to grind more flour than that. But, even doing the grinding/soaking method above, and add regular wheat pre-ground flour, is WAY more nutritious.

It is simple really.
1. Toss the grains in the blender with the liquid, blend 3 minutes.
2. Soaks overnight on the counter and neutralizes the phytic acid and increases bio-available nutrients.
3. Grind again in the morning with a bit more liquid, if needed. The directions are here: http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/brea...erwafflesA.htm

You can do this with about any whole grain: wheat, spelt, Kamut, hulled barley, rice, steel cut oats, etc.


Pat


Pat

[Koalamom]

There were many farmers for NY on realmilk.com, but the one I get milk from is from calling around for farms that are certified organic, but really cant sell legally. I just didn't like my option from realmilk.com. The farm I get my milk from sells to Horizon Organic for a living, but saves a few gallons a week for me.

[mbravebird]

I found raw goat's milk by looking for local sources of goat cheese, then contacting the farmer and asking if I could buy a share of one of her goats, then get the milk before she pasteurized.

Through that same farmer, I found an unadvertised cow-share, too.

And with the soaking grains thing, it really depends on what you want to make. Soaking/sprouting whole grains, drying them, and grinding them is the most time-intensive way, and most people aren't doing that. Most folks find some way to soak after it's already been ground, because it's less work that way. The Sue Gregg method that WuWei linked is great. Lots of folks on here make no-knead bread, which has low yeast and an overnight rise (not quite as effective as sourdough, but almost). Here's a thread about the no-knead bread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=912350

Grinding the grains yourself really gives you optimal nutrition, but if that feels out of reach, just start with pre-ground flour, and find ways to soak/ferment before baking. Have fun!

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

I found raw goat's milk by looking for local sources of goat cheese, then contacting the farmer and asking if I could buy a share of one of her goats, then get the milk before she pasteurized.

Through that same farmer, I found an unadvertised cow-share, too.

And with the soaking grains thing, it really depends on what you want to make. Soaking/sprouting whole grains, drying them, and grinding them is the most time-intensive way, and most people aren't doing that. Most folks find some way to soak after it's already been ground, because it's less work that way. The Sue Gregg method that WuWei linked is great. Lots of folks on here make no-knead bread, which has low yeast and an overnight rise (not quite as effective as sourdough, but almost). Here's a thread about the no-knead bread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=912350

Grinding the grains yourself really gives you optimal nutrition, but if that feels out of reach, just start with pre-ground flour, and find ways to soak/ferment before baking. Have fun!

Well, it all feels a bit intimidating, but I'm determined. Some things are a bit out of reach right now, but I can start making changes weekly, and work them in. I'm really intimidated by kefir, and knowing what's okay to drink and what is truly sour. The link WuWei gave me said I can use pasteurized milk, but how do the good bacteria appear? I'm just confused, and don't want to get sick because I'm trying to do something good without the right ingredients, kwim?

[Rainbow2911]

The bacteria come from the kefir grains or starter that you add to the milk. You can sour raw milk by leaving it out but pasteurised would go nasty. The main difference between sour and rotten milk is very clear! Sour milk smells sour and yogurty. And I don't think any one would be prepared to taste rotton milk so let your nose guide you!

[momto l&a]

Originally Posted by forestrymom

Azure Standard doesn't deliver here, but my SIL orders about every other month and I buy sucanat, maple syrup, oils, etc, in bulk there. You have to have a $400 minimum.

Azure delivers to Montana. You mean they don't deliver to near you?