Be honest-- deep down, are you afraid of God?

[LionTigerBear]

Okay, on an intellectual level, I am not afraid of God at all. I believe He is my loving Heavenly Father, compassionate and understanding, that He created me from His great love, and I don't believe that there is really anything to be afraid of.

However.

I was raised in an abusive home and I can definitely see how I (mostly subconciously) transfer my exeriences with my parents onto my present experience of God. In otherwords, my parents always seemed to be disappointed in me, so deep down I'm afraid that God will be disappointed in me. My earthly parents tended to alternate between ignoring me (no attention) and being violently angry at me (bad attention), and so in parallel, I'm afraid of receiving any attention from God. (Better to just fly under the radar, right? That's what I tried to do with my parents.) The idea that He might be all-knowing and constantly aware of me and what I'm doing freaks me out. Oh, and my parents' good graces could only be earned by following their changing rules and meeting their impossible expectations and by being "perfect" (no room for mistakes whatsoever!) So I'm afraid if I DO attract Heavenly Father's attention (by praying or talking to Him) that He will then be aware of me (uh oh) and expect me to be perfect (uh oh) and if I'm not . . . double uh oh . . .

Now, none of what I wrote in the paragraph above is what I really BELIEVE in, it's not a real part of my belief system-- but it's that old time ingrained fear that still motivates me in so many ways-- perhaps motivates me even more than my conciously accepted beliefs! I can tell myself a million times that God loves me, He doesn't expect me to be perfect, He loves me even when I mess up, He only wants me to do my best, His love is unconditonal, etc. etc. . . . but it just isn't sinking in on a deeper level. If anything, I seem to be getting worse: withdrawing from Him more and more. Maybe I'm just tired of it-- tired of the cycle of fear and trying to be perfect.

Any advice? I can't be the only one who is struggling or has struggled with this. It is really affecting me because I have developed this strong deep-seated avoidance of prayer that is only getting worse. I would like to pray a few times a day at least, but right now I can barely pray once a day and it's painful. In my religion the goal is to be "in constant commune with God" and while I long for that kind of trust and closeness, all I can say is right now that makes me go "EEEEK!!!"

I would be interested in hearing thoughts from a variety of religious and spiritual backgrounds, from anyone who can relate to what I'm talking about.

[LionTigerBear]

P.S. I love flower essences. Is there a flower essence for this?

[spero]

A good and loving parent shouldn't have to be feared - respected, certainly, but never feared.

So no, I am not afraid of my Father.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by spero

A good and loving parent shouldn't have to be feared - respected, certainly, but never feared.

So no, I am not afraid of my Father.

I know He shouldn't have to be feared-- I know He is a good and loving Parent-- but, for me, that doesn't translate to actually not fearing Him.

I am curious how you actually got there. Or was it just never an issue for you? Were you afraid of your earthly parents? Not to pry, just curious and trying to learn. How do you learn to trust?

I suppose I could relate it to a fear of spiders. You could explain all day to someone with aracnaphobia (sp?) that spiders can't really hurt them, but at the end of the day it won't make a difference because their fear is not rationally based-- so a rational appeal can't help.

Not trying to be difficult.

[Ruthla]

It sounds to me like you're taking the idea of a "Heavenly Father" a bit too literally- infusing Him with all the faults of your earthly parents.

Remember that G-d is perfect. He won't let His own anger, weakness, feelings of inadequacy, pride, etc. interfere with how he interacts with you. Your parents have/had their own internal struggles to contend with- their innapropriate responses to you had NOTHING to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with what was going on in their own heads. G-d doesn't have these problems- He's not weighed down by stress, or the fallout from an abusive childhood, or substance abuse, etc. He's there for you always, seeing what you truly are capable of and expecting nothing more. He even understands this dillemma you're facing due to your childhood hurts.

Perhaps if you worked through some of your feelings toward your parents, and learned to let go of some of that fear and anger, you'd be more open to accept G-d's loving parenting.

I personally never went through this because I was blessed with a healthy family. My associations with my own parents were positive and non-abusive.

[spero]

Honestly, I don't ever remember a time when I was actually afraid of God.

I have serious trust issues with nearly everyone in my life (b/c I never fully trusted my own parents, probably), so God is the one absolute thing in my life that I CAN trust.

I think it just comes from having relationship with God - the more I do to deepen that relationship, the more I trust Him and the less likely I am to fear Him. I'm sorry, I know that sounds terribly simplistic but for me that's pretty much it.

[Tracy]

No. I am way more afraid of Man.

[KariM]

(((big hugs))) to you first!

While I have all sorts of issues with my earthly parents, I can say that my relationship with Heavenly Father is what helps me to deal with my very human and VERY flawed earthly parents. For me I think I have the opposite reaction. I need to be in constant communion with Heavenly Father because my own family is so messed up. It's so reassuring to know that God is NOT like our human parents.

Have you tried going through counseling with a therapist familiar with your faith background yet? If not, that might be worth a try.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

It sounds to me like you're taking the idea of a "Heavenly Father" a bit too literally- infusing Him with all the faults of your earthly parents.

Right, that's exactly my problem!

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Remember that G-d is perfect. He won't let His own anger, weakness, feelings of inadequacy, pride, etc. interfere with how he interacts with you. Your parents have/had their own internal struggles to contend with- their innapropriate responses to you had NOTHING to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with what was going on in their own heads. G-d doesn't have these problems- He's not weighed down by stress, or the fallout from an abusive childhood, or substance abuse, etc. He's there for you always, seeing what you truly are capable of and expecting nothing more. He even understands this dillemma you're facing due to your childhood hurts.

That was good to hear and it would be good for me to keep in mind, if I could. Or at least remind myself right before I want to pray.

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Perhaps if you worked through some of your feelings toward your parents, and learned to let go of some of that fear and anger, you'd be more open to accept G-d's loving parenting.

That's a good idea. I still have a lot of resentment towards my parents, which I am trying to work on, but that's really hard too. I don't really know how to let go of that bitterness, although I'm working on it-- I guess. As best as I know how. I suppose if my resentment and sense of hurt towards my parents weren't such a driving factor in my pysche, that it might not affect my relationship with God so much.

Originally Posted by spero

I think it just comes from having relationship with God - the more I do to deepen that relationship, the more I trust Him and the less likely I am to fear Him. I'm sorry, I know that sounds terribly simplistic but for me that's pretty much it.

That's okay, thank you for sharing your experience.

Originally Posted by KariM

(((big hugs))) to you first!

Thank you!!!

Originally Posted by KariM

While I have all sorts of issues with my earthly parents, I can say that my relationship with Heavenly Father is what helps me to deal with my very human and VERY flawed earthly parents. For me I think I have the opposite reaction. I need to be in constant communion with Heavenly Father because my own family is so messed up. It's so reassuring to know that God is NOT like our human parents.

Have you tried going through counseling with a therapist familiar with your faith background yet? If not, that might be worth a try.

Yeah, I should-- I was seeing a good therapist of my faith a few years ago when I had PPD, but it is expensive and it's kind of a drive (35 minutes away) and I'd have to get a babysitter-- I don't know, I am considering it anyway though.




Interestingly, I guess I thought there would be more people with this issue. Maybe not!!!

I was thinking about it more today and I think that it may also be related to the way that my mom taught me to relate to God. My mom actually started out Pagan, and then switched to Christianity, and then back to Pagan, but it didn't matter what she called herself-- she always saw God (or Goddess) this way-- austere, high expectations (i.e. perfectionistic), easily disappointed, cold, etc etc. (No matter what religion she belonged to, this is how she sees God. Like a reflection of herself.) She wouldn't have described it this way herself, but that was the message I got. If I didn't perform as well in one of my talents as she thought I should, she would tell me it was like "slapping God in the face". She described a deity who was angry, punitive, vengeful.

I remember talking to God or the Goddess easily when I was like 4, and at that point I had no fear. But as I grew, I guess is when I started transferring these issues. By the time I was 10, I had definitely fully developed this kind of fear I described. Blah.

[EnviroBecca]

It's easier for me because my parents are pretty reasonable. The only time I feel afraid of God is when I knew something was wrong and did it anyway--I know God is disappointed in me, and I fear facing His disappointment because I love Him so and I'm embarrassed at being a weak little screwed-up person by comparison to His magnificence. Although intellectually I know that He understands about that and will forgive me, and that He already knows what I did, emotionally I am afraid to tell Him and tempted to make excuses for myself, just like when I try to prevent my earthly father from finding out that I did something that would disappoint him.

Remember, God is aware of you anyway, whether you "draw attention" by praying or not. He knows every hair on your head. He knows you have this fear. Fear comes from a lack of trust, so work on the trust. Ask God to help you heal from your untrustworthy parents and to help you build your trust in Him. Other than that, focus your prayers less on sin and self-improvement and asking for things, more on thanksgiving. Every time a good thing comes to you, say a quick prayer: "Oh, what a pretty cloud! Thank you, God, for clouds and light and eyes to see them." That may help you to relate to God on a more positive level.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

It's easier for me because my parents are pretty reasonable. The only time I feel afraid of God is when I knew something was wrong and did it anyway--I know God is disappointed in me, and I fear facing His disappointment because I love Him so and I'm embarrassed at being a weak little screwed-up person by comparison to His magnificence. Although intellectually I know that He understands about that and will forgive me, and that He already knows what I did, emotionally I am afraid to tell Him and tempted to make excuses for myself, just like when I try to prevent my earthly father from finding out that I did something that would disappoint him.

Remember, God is aware of you anyway, whether you "draw attention" by praying or not. He knows every hair on your head. He knows you have this fear. Fear comes from a lack of trust, so work on the trust. Ask God to help you heal from your untrustworthy parents and to help you build your trust in Him. Other than that, focus your prayers less on sin and self-improvement and asking for things, more on thanksgiving. Every time a good thing comes to you, say a quick prayer: "Oh, what a pretty cloud! Thank you, God, for clouds and light and eyes to see them." That may help you to relate to God on a more positive level.

Thank you, Becca, that was really helpful. : I am still digesting this so I might have more to say later.

[TzippityDoulah]

s

I can totally understand this. I have a lot of abandonment issues form when I was a kid and struggle deeply with feeling abandoned by God. seems so simple for others to trust He will always be there, but it's somethign i have to give constant prayer and will power to stay in the right mind about.

My father left us, stole from us etc etc etc a lot when I was a kid. he wasn't phsyically abusive really... but emotionally an what not. mostly he was just a self concerned jerk most of the time. in and out of our lives etc. I never felt stable. I'd be used ot being without him and he'd come back. I'd be used to him there and he's disappear.

FWIW I also have this issue with my husband. I always worry he will go away. or die. or something. I'm scared of being alone and i have a hard time relating to God on this....
BUT in our weakness we are strong in Christ. I may struggle here, yes. but it has taught me a lot too. taught me about how I want to be for my kids, and how I know other people must feel who were in my situation etc. I see the deep important of family life in a child's life etc...

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

FWIW I also have this issue with my husband. I always worry he will go away. or die. or something.

Yup, I've had that issue to. Maybe they go together.

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

BUT in our weakness we are strong in Christ. I may struggle here, yes. but it has taught me a lot too...

Thank you for reminding me of this.

[Adele_Mommy]

I think there are a few different ways to look at being afraid of God. You make a comparison to arachnophobia - an irrational fear that, as such, cannot be reasoned away. It is possible that your fear is just that - a phobia, in which case therapy may be the way to go. In this case however, I don't think the fear is really a religious issue at all. I have OCD and I used to worry an awful lot about going to hell. I learned that this is a documented symptom of OCD just like fear of germs or dirt or things like that, and once I was able to get my OCD under control, this fear went away without my addressing it at all on a religious or spiritual level. I don't think you have OCD, but there is a name for a phobic fear of God - theophobia - and this is a problem that needs to be addressed on a psychological or medical level.

Another thing to consider is that it is actually perfectly in line with Christian thought to feel fear of God. God is supposed to be so awe-inspiring, so overwhelming, that part of what people feel for Him is fear. "Fear of God" is all over the place in the Bible as a good thing:

And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own. Ex.1:21

But be sure to fear the LORD and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you. 1 Sam 12:24

Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. Ps. 2:11

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1:7

His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation. Luke 1:50

Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. 1 Peter 2:17

And many, many more. In fact, the phrase "God-fearing" has become a synonym for a good or righteous person as viewed by Christianity. Now you can find a lot of arguments that this "fear" is actually supposed to be a combination of awe, respect, and reverence (see for example this article) and from these same sources they have their own solutions to a fear of God that is "incorrect" or inappropriate or too strong (for example this article).

I think though, if you really and truly believe in a God that sends people (any people) to a real, literal, eternal hell, that the only reasonable response to such a God would be fear. Absolute terror would not be out of line in my opinion. So, maybe it is a religion issue. If you truly believe in a loving god and/or that god is love, then maybe you should investigate a more Universalist religion, because it makes sense to me that no truly loving God would condem anyone to hell. You can be Universalist and still be Christian. The view of God of a Universalist religion is much more loving and comforting and much less interested in inspiring fear of any kind. You might find that a supportive religious community helps you to be less afraid.

One last thing - I would stop trying to pray every day if it is painful for you. Prayer is not the only way to "find God".

I know that it is really hard to be afraid all the time. I hope you feel better soon!

[holyhelianthus]

LTB~ It's funny that you have this issue as I have issues with God because of my parents/upbringing but in a different way. Am I, deep down inside, afraid of God? No, because deep down I don't believe He is there. Deep down I am an Atheist. I can't even tell you what my own father looks like let alone what it is like to have a father. So to me the concept of "Heavenly Father" or God is an enigma. You might as well tell me to walk out side and see whales flying in the sky. Sometimes I get it. Sometimes it clicks in my mind but more often then not I am faking it until I make it.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy

It is possible that your fear is just that - a phobia, in which case therapy may be the way to go. In this case however, I don't think the fear is really a religious issue at all. I have OCD and I used to worry an awful lot about going to hell. I learned that this is a documented symptom of OCD just like fear of germs or dirt or things like that, and once I was able to get my OCD under control, this fear went away without my addressing it at all on a religious or spiritual level. I don't think you have OCD, but there is a name for a phobic fear of God - theophobia - and this is a problem that needs to be addressed on a psychological or medical level.

That's an interesting perspective. I don't think I have OCD, but I do have a couple OCD-ish traits/behaviors.

Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy

I think though, if you really and truly believe in a God that sends people (any people) to a real, literal, eternal hell, that the only reasonable response to such a God would be fear. Absolute terror would not be out of line in my opinion. So, maybe it is a religion issue. If you truly believe in a loving god and/or that god is love, then maybe you should investigate a more Universalist religion, because it makes sense to me that no truly loving God would condem anyone to hell.

I am not Universalist, and yet I do not believe in a hell like you describe (there are other options!) I believe that some people choose (or will choose) to be separated from God and therefore from happiness. I do not believe in hell as a firey pit-- a physical location of physical torment-- but simply as a state of being cut off from God, and therefore cut off from comfort and mercy-- by one's own choice. I don't think most people who are presently on earth will go there-- I think most people are good, and all good people who desire to please God, or who eventually develop a desire to please God, will go to "heaven" and have access to God's light to some degree (to the degree with which they are comfortable).

I think the point of spiritual growth, in any religion or spiritual discipline, is to allow ourselves to become comfortable with more and more of God's light and love.

I suppose by my own definition, I am not very comfortable with God's light, love and mercy right now. I suppose because I have a fairly low sense of self-esteem (still!) and I just don't feel like I deserve it.

Hmm, so, maybe my issue isn't so much with God as it is with my low sense of self-worth. I am not afraid of going to hell-- not really so much afraid of punishment-- because punishment is actually something that I feel very comfortable with-- in fact, I punish myself sometimes, not conciously, but still, it's a habit-- it makes me feel more comfortable, like I'm making amends somehow for my overwhelming shortcomings-- I know, that's really messed up-- but what I'm more afraid of is that I am not worthy of God's love, or that God won't love me or want me. I suppose in a way not praying is my way of punishing myself, too.

Yup, I have issues.

Oh, and I definitely see the Biblical references to "fear" as more of a respect/reverence/awe thing.

Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy

I hope you feel better soon!

Thank you!!! Writing that response to you really helped me work out more of what's actually going on in my head which was really helpful. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by magstphil

LTB~ It's funny that you have this issue as I have issues with God because of my parents/upbringing but in a different way. Am I, deep down inside, afraid of God? No, because deep down I don't believe He is there. Deep down I am an Atheist. I can't even tell you what my own father looks like let alone what it is like to have a father. So to me the concept of "Heavenly Father" or God is an enigma. You might as well tell me to walk out side and see whales flying in the sky. Sometimes I get it. Sometimes it clicks in my mind but more often then not I am faking it until I make it.

Wow, thank you for sharing that.

[Arduinna]

What about trying spiritual counseling with clergy? Either, someone from the same faith background/denomination or whatever word applies as you were raised in or the faith you feel drawn to. I mention the faith you were raised in because I think it might be helpful to compare what you parents taught you about the faith and what is the actual teaching about who God is. It might give you some clarity to differentiate your parents teachings and Gods ( as they should have been taught ). I don;t know but that is what came to me reading your posts.

I hope you can find peace with this.

[momma4fun]

LionTigerBear -- the initial reason why I left the church you are in is because of my fear of god, and feeling that it just wasn't an appropriate fear for me to be dealing with

in speaking of my parents and upbringing, i could say almost the exact same things you are saying about your pagan parents. it is interesting to make that connection between earthly parents and how we feel about god. i've never approached it that way.

here is a quote from Russell M Nelson, one of your apostles:

"Divine Love Is Also Conditional. While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional. The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us-and certain divine blessings stemming from that love-are conditional.

Understanding that divine love and blessings are not truly 'unconditional' can defend us against common fallacies such as these: 'Since God's love is unconditional, He will love me regardless …'; or 'Since 'God is love,' He will love me unconditionally, regardless …' These arguments are used by anti-Christs to woo people with deception.

The full flower of divine love and our greatest blessings from that love are conditional-predicated upon our obedience to eternal law. I pray that we may qualify for those blessings and rejoice forever."

- Russell M. Nelson, "Divine Love," Ensign, Feb. 2003, page 20

you can take from that what you will but i can no longer claim to worship a god who sets me up for failure, and who withholds higher levels of love from me.

from birth i was taught of the eternal spiritual death that would happen to me if i didn't constantly strive to be as perfect as god wanted me to be. i lived in fear of the day christ would return and all the non-perfect saints would die.

to me, if there exists a being who is worthy of worship, his love would be unconditional. it doesn't suit my physical or emotional health to cling to a god that causes me fear -- i need to be able to live joyfully and heathily now.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

What about trying spiritual counseling with clergy? Either, someone from the same faith background/denomination or whatever word applies as you were raised in or the faith you feel drawn to.

I hope you can find peace with this.

Thank you Arduinna. The faith I belong to now is not the same as any of the faiths my parents belonged to growing up, but I don't see it as really a religious/denominational thing as simply a spiritual/emotional/mental thing that would affect me no matter what religion I belonged to. It's just my own baggage that I carry with me. So I don't think that my parents were good representatives of the religions they belonged to, either. The thought of them joining my religion actually scares me a little because I'm sure they would still be the same as always and they might be a negative influence on other people at church. : At least as it stands now, they don't have any kind of spiritual community or much contact with others, so they aren't affecting other people's faith-- well, besides their children's I suppose (they still have kids at home. ) Anyway.

I keep thinking counseling might be a good option-- my church has two counselors who are very nice and helpful, I have met with one of them and am casually acquainted with the other-- but it's just kind of a pain to do the counseling thing, for a few reasons (it's a drive, it costs money, although they do a sliding scale, and it's not always convenient to when I want to work on my issues-- I like being spontaneous and at times I just don't feel like talking about it-- which is impossible to schedule for-- I know, excuses ). But I'm definitely not ruling it out.

Actually, something that I was just thinking today might be really helpful is hypnotherapy. Hypnosis for childbirth really helped me get over the trauma of my first birthing and release all of that fear and baggage so that I could go on to have a really easy, quick, wonderful second birthing (second labor was like 4 hours total!) I wonder if I could find some kind of self-hypnosis cd that would answer this kind of issue-- even if it just addressed the shame/self-worth aspect of it. Hmmm.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by momma4fun

LionTigerBear -- the initial reason why I left the church you are in is because of my fear of god, and feeling that it just wasn't an appropriate fear for me to be dealing with

in speaking of my parents and upbringing, i could say almost the exact same things you are saying about your pagan parents. it is interesting to make that connection between earthly parents and how we feel about god. i've never approached it that way.

here is a quote from Russell M Nelson, one of your apostles:

"Divine Love Is Also Conditional. While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional. The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us-and certain divine blessings stemming from that love-are conditional.

Understanding that divine love and blessings are not truly 'unconditional' can defend us against common fallacies such as these: 'Since God's love is unconditional, He will love me regardless …'; or 'Since 'God is love,' He will love me unconditionally, regardless …' These arguments are used by anti-Christs to woo people with deception.

The full flower of divine love and our greatest blessings from that love are conditional-predicated upon our obedience to eternal law. I pray that we may qualify for those blessings and rejoice forever."

- Russell M. Nelson, "Divine Love," Ensign, Feb. 2003, page 20

you can take from that what you will but i can no longer claim to worship a god who sets me up for failure, and who withholds higher levels of love from me.

from birth i was taught of the eternal spiritual death that would happen to me if i didn't constantly strive to be as perfect as god wanted me to be. i lived in fear of the day christ would return and all the non-perfect saints would die.

to me, if there exists a being who is worthy of worship, his love would be unconditional. it doesn't suit my physical or emotional health to cling to a god that causes me fear -- i need to be able to live joyfully and heathily now.

Hi momm 4 fun! I was actually writing about unconditional love the other day, and as I wrote and tried to define it, I realized that it can mean different things, and is used to mean different things. Same thing with the word "pride"-- it can be and is used to mean very different things! Pride can be a virtue, and pride can be a sin! And so, in that spirit, I am very comfortable with the idea of God's unconditional love as I understand it when I use that term-- Iknow what I mean by it-- and know that it is compatible with my religion-- and yet, at the same time, I also agree with what Elder Nelson said.

Hope that wasn't confusing. I'm not going to spend any more time trying to clarify it though, because I don't want to get into a doctrinal discussion here-- I am comfortable with my belief system, and not interested in changing your mind if you are comfortable with yours-- but suffice to say, my emotional issues were certainly not caused nor abetted by my present religion.